C.V.A. staghorn/Which power belt?

jaymag · September 8, 2006, 08:23 AM

I live in mass. and most shots are 100yds.I was thinking 245 gr.jacket hollow point.I shoot 100gr. 2 50gr. triple seven powder pellets.You think I should go bigger for a harder wack?Also has anyone tried the power belt out of a staghorn or buckhorn,same gun.

armedandsafe · September 8, 2006, 07:45 PM

Using more powder to get more "whack" is not the answer. It can be a component, but is not the only component.

Work up your loads for accuracy. The load which gives you the most accuracy is your starting point. If you have a chronograph, use it. If not, use POI on targets at 50, 75, 100 and 125 yards. Increase your loads from there until you loose a significant amount of accuracy. Use the same hold (center of bull, 6:00 of the bull, sliver of white between bull and front sight, whatever is your style.) This will give you a rough approximation of the ballistic curve the bullet travels. When you see accuracy decreasing to the point that you cannot use the same hold on each of the targets and achieve hits in the vital zone (12" to 18" circle on deer, depending on the average deer in your area) back off on the load. this will give you the best power to accuracy ratio.

I grew up hunting in central Nevada with the 30-06. We used to sight in 4" high at 400 yards, using a 6:00 hold. This meant we could hold on at any distance fron 50 yards to 500 yards and be reasonably assured of a hit in the kill zone.

Pops

jaymag · September 8, 2006, 08:08 PM

I mean bigger as lead,not more powder!I know 100gr. is more than enough to take whitetail.[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] even bear or moose.

smokjunkee · September 19, 2006, 01:39 PM

I hunt in NJ & the majority of my shots are well under 100 yds. I fill my Staghorn with 90 grs. of pyrodex pellets, under a 295gr. powerBelt. great acuracy & have have harvested 2 bucks quite efficiently since I have had it.
SJ

VonFatman · October 16, 2006, 12:39 AM

I've used it for several years before I got my Omega last November. I've killed several nice deer with it...

My load...

80 grains of Triple Seven (777) fffg.

I'm getting over 1,600 f.p.s. at 50 yards (setting the chrono 50 yards down range).

How much velocity do you need?...well, I'd say with your 100 gains of ffg you are probably pretty close to my f.p.s....maybe a bit less with the heavier bullet...but if you dropped the bullet/sabot weight down you would be right there with me in f.p.s. and have less felt recoil.

I don't like having the crap kicked out of me, hence, the lower charge.

Do what you like, but you don't "need" anything more to kill a deer at 100 yards.

By the way, in my Staghorn, I'm using 235gr Precision Rifle sabots and I'm getting 3-4" groups off a rest from 100 yards (I have a peep sight on my Staghorn).

If you think you need more umph...well, I'd say it's not going to make the gun shoot better...but if it makes you feel better...it's your shoulder!

Good luck deer hunting!

Bob

Whisk · October 16, 2006, 09:13 AM

Was using 100 grs under 295 gr Powerbelts. Just got done using the 295 gr Powerbelts with 80 grs Triple 7 FFFg and it actually was more accurate than the former load! Of course I was only shooting @ 50 yds but next time will set up at 100 to see. Most of my shots at deer have been at 100 yards or thereabouts although I haven't used my BP yet for deer.

Its been said here before, but I have a feeling the loose Triple 7 FFFg is hotter than the pellets so the 100 grs might have been a little hotter than two pellets of same. My buddy shoots 3 50/50 Pyrodex pellets all the time but he's got an Omega while I only have the Wolf CVA. Don't think I need to get there as I'm only interested in hunting with my BP gun and the 80 gr 245 gr slug I think will be plenty!

MACK_USCG · October 20, 2006, 06:51 PM

I just bought a CVA Wolf .50 and I love it. I was going to get the Kodiak but liked this model better. I shoot 295gr CVA Powerbelts (Aerotips) with Triple 7 pellets (100gr) and Remington Kleenbore primers(BP) and i literally took this thing out of the box, scoped it with a Bushnell stalker 3X9, had my smithy bore sight it and i was shooting 2" groups at a 100yds with this baby. Stick with the powerbelts! but thats just my 2 cents.

Mack

marcseatac · October 20, 2006, 07:15 PM

Mack, glad your new rifle is a shooter!

Whisk · October 20, 2006, 08:55 PM

So far for me its:

80 to 100 grs fffg 777 and 245 or 295 gr Powerbelt.

But like Sundance said, I'll always be experimenting,just because I can

Whisk · October 20, 2006, 09:02 PM

So far for me its:

80 to 100 grs fffg 777 and 245 or 295 gr Powerbelt.

But like Sundance said, I'll always be experimenting,just because I can

jaymag · October 27, 2006, 09:43 AM

Thanks for all your help.I think I will stay with my 2 pellet triple seven 100GR.I like how fast they load.I would even choose a little less power,to avoid loose powder.The 295Gr. is a monster piece of lead.I can't wait to see what it does.Probley make a big mess!

marcseatac · October 27, 2006, 03:50 PM

Not to rain on anybody's parade:

Powerbelt Bullets

By Randy Wakeman

Powerbelt bullets, manufactured by Big Bore Express, have been around for a long time now. They were known as "Black Belt Bullets," available in plain lead versions as well as with a thin copper-wash, as thin a copper plating as you may have seen on some .22 rimfire bullets.

CVA may offer some questionable guns, but what this Spanish owned importer does have an affinity for is loud, hyperbole driven marketing. CVA / BPI / Winchester Muzzleloading / New Frontier Muzzleloading rifles all come from the same inferior source. But "Powerbelt" bullets are made in Idaho.

Contrary to what the ads say about CVA Powerbelts, they are not the "most advanced" muzzleloading bullets. They are also not the "hardest hitting," nor do they have "all of the advantages of sabots."

The fact of the matter is, ballistically, bore sized projectiles are the very worst muzzleloading projectiles available. Comparing a .452 or .452 saboted pistol bullet to a "fifty caliber" bore-sized conical makes even the poorest pistol bullet look like a shooting powerhouse. It is fundamental that when comparing projectiles of similar weight and shape, the smaller caliber bullet is always superior in sectional density and almost always superior in ballistic coefficient. In other words, it flies better and penetrates deeper, losing less of its terminal striking force than a bore sized bullet.

Far from advanced, the Powerbelt is merely a pure lead conical. It is old wine in a new bottle, doing very little that the Minie balls of the Civil War did not do. The lighter versions do less.

Pure lead can be scratched with your fingernail; drop a Powerbelt and it easily dents. Powerbelts, like all lead conicals, shorten and belly out upon firing. Powerbelts shoot exactly the same whether the green hula hoop skirt is attached or detached.

They are simply slip fit conicals. Their sole benefit being that they need no messy lubrication of Crisco or other bullet lube, as the copper plating takes care of that. Unfortunately the better selling, lighter Powerbelts (245 and 295 grain) are the worst performers on game. The 348, 405, and 444 grain bullets are far more effective. Snip//

The 405 and 444 grain renditions are easily the better bullets, doing their best work with loose powder. Unfortunately, CVA barrels are not rated for bullets this heavy. It is unwise to use heavy conicals in a muzzleloader with an extruded barreled. They are better reserved for use in frontloaders with high quality barrels, such as Knight, Thompson, and Savage.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/powerbelt_bullets.htm

September 8, 2006, 08:23 AM	#1
jaymag Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2005 Location: springfield,MA Posts: 239	C.V.A. staghorn/Which power belt? I live in mass. and most shots are 100yds.I was thinking 245 gr.jacket hollow point.I shoot 100gr. 2 50gr. triple seven powder pellets.You think I should go bigger for a harder wack?Also has anyone tried the power belt out of a staghorn or buckhorn,same gun.

September 8, 2006, 07:45 PM	#2
armedandsafe Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: Moses Lake WA Posts: 1,001	Using more powder to get more "whack" is not the answer. It can be a component, but is not the only component. Work up your loads for accuracy. The load which gives you the most accuracy is your starting point. If you have a chronograph, use it. If not, use POI on targets at 50, 75, 100 and 125 yards. Increase your loads from there until you loose a significant amount of accuracy. Use the same hold (center of bull, 6:00 of the bull, sliver of white between bull and front sight, whatever is your style.) This will give you a rough approximation of the ballistic curve the bullet travels. When you see accuracy decreasing to the point that you cannot use the same hold on each of the targets and achieve hits in the vital zone (12" to 18" circle on deer, depending on the average deer in your area) back off on the load. this will give you the best power to accuracy ratio. I grew up hunting in central Nevada with the 30-06. We used to sight in 4" high at 400 yards, using a 6:00 hold. This meant we could hold on at any distance fron 50 yards to 500 yards and be reasonably assured of a hit in the kill zone. Pops __________________ Armed and Safe: Not just a theory If it time to bury them, it is time to dig them up. Remember, "Behind every blade of grass."

September 8, 2006, 08:08 PM	#3
jaymag Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2005 Location: springfield,MA Posts: 239	thanks but?????????????? I mean bigger as lead,not more powder!I know 100gr. is more than enough to take whitetail.[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] even bear or moose.

October 16, 2006, 12:39 AM	#5
VonFatman Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2000 Location: Kansas City Posts: 587	I have a Staghorn... I've used it for several years before I got my Omega last November. I've killed several nice deer with it... My load... 80 grains of Triple Seven (777) fffg. I'm getting over 1,600 f.p.s. at 50 yards (setting the chrono 50 yards down range). How much velocity do you need?...well, I'd say with your 100 gains of ffg you are probably pretty close to my f.p.s....maybe a bit less with the heavier bullet...but if you dropped the bullet/sabot weight down you would be right there with me in f.p.s. and have less felt recoil. I don't like having the crap kicked out of me, hence, the lower charge. Do what you like, but you don't "need" anything more to kill a deer at 100 yards. By the way, in my Staghorn, I'm using 235gr Precision Rifle sabots and I'm getting 3-4" groups off a rest from 100 yards (I have a peep sight on my Staghorn). If you think you need more umph...well, I'd say it's not going to make the gun shoot better...but if it makes you feel better...it's your shoulder! Good luck deer hunting! Bob __________________ "Onward thru the Fog"

October 16, 2006, 09:13 AM	#6
Whisk Member Join Date: September 11, 2006 Location: Ceres, CA Posts: 86	Was using 100 grs under 295 gr Powerbelts. Just got done using the 295 gr Powerbelts with 80 grs Triple 7 FFFg and it actually was more accurate than the former load! Of course I was only shooting @ 50 yds but next time will set up at 100 to see. Most of my shots at deer have been at 100 yards or thereabouts although I haven't used my BP yet for deer. Its been said here before, but I have a feeling the loose Triple 7 FFFg is hotter than the pellets so the 100 grs might have been a little hotter than two pellets of same. My buddy shoots 3 50/50 Pyrodex pellets all the time but he's got an Omega while I only have the Wolf CVA. Don't think I need to get there as I'm only interested in hunting with my BP gun and the 80 gr 245 gr slug I think will be plenty! __________________ "Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance" http://www.lukefisher.com/napalm.wav Last edited by Whisk; October 18, 2006 at 02:47 PM.

September 19, 2006, 01:39 PM	#4
smokjunkee Member Join Date: July 25, 2006 Location: Southern New Jersey Posts: 17	I hunt in NJ & the majority of my shots are well under 100 yds. I fill my Staghorn with 90 grs. of pyrodex pellets, under a 295gr. powerBelt. great acuracy & have have harvested 2 bucks quite efficiently since I have had it. SJ

October 20, 2006, 06:51 PM	#7
MACK_USCG Junior Member Join Date: October 11, 2006 Location: CAPE COD, MA Posts: 5	I just bought a CVA Wolf .50 and I love it. I was going to get the Kodiak but liked this model better. I shoot 295gr CVA Powerbelts (Aerotips) with Triple 7 pellets (100gr) and Remington Kleenbore primers(BP) and i literally took this thing out of the box, scoped it with a Bushnell stalker 3X9, had my smithy bore sight it and i was shooting 2" groups at a 100yds with this baby. Stick with the powerbelts! but thats just my 2 cents. Mack

October 20, 2006, 07:15 PM	#8
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	Mack, glad your new rifle is a shooter!

October 20, 2006, 08:55 PM	#9
Whisk Member Join Date: September 11, 2006 Location: Ceres, CA Posts: 86	So far for me its: 80 to 100 grs fffg 777 and 245 or 295 gr Powerbelt. But like Sundance said, I'll always be experimenting,just because I can __________________ "Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance" http://www.lukefisher.com/napalm.wav

October 20, 2006, 09:02 PM	#10
Whisk Member Join Date: September 11, 2006 Location: Ceres, CA Posts: 86	So far for me its: 80 to 100 grs fffg 777 and 245 or 295 gr Powerbelt. But like Sundance said, I'll always be experimenting,just because I can __________________ "Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance" http://www.lukefisher.com/napalm.wav

October 27, 2006, 09:43 AM	#11
jaymag Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2005 Location: springfield,MA Posts: 239	295Gr.Will be the new load!PowerBelt Thanks for all your help.I think I will stay with my 2 pellet triple seven 100GR.I like how fast they load.I would even choose a little less power,to avoid loose powder.The 295Gr. is a monster piece of lead.I can't wait to see what it does.Probley make a big mess!

October 27, 2006, 03:50 PM	#12
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	Not to rain on anybody's parade: Powerbelt Bullets By Randy Wakeman Powerbelt bullets, manufactured by Big Bore Express, have been around for a long time now. They were known as "Black Belt Bullets," available in plain lead versions as well as with a thin copper-wash, as thin a copper plating as you may have seen on some .22 rimfire bullets. CVA may offer some questionable guns, but what this Spanish owned importer does have an affinity for is loud, hyperbole driven marketing. CVA / BPI / Winchester Muzzleloading / New Frontier Muzzleloading rifles all come from the same inferior source. But "Powerbelt" bullets are made in Idaho. Contrary to what the ads say about CVA Powerbelts, they are not the "most advanced" muzzleloading bullets. They are also not the "hardest hitting," nor do they have "all of the advantages of sabots." The fact of the matter is, ballistically, bore sized projectiles are the very worst muzzleloading projectiles available. Comparing a .452 or .452 saboted pistol bullet to a "fifty caliber" bore-sized conical makes even the poorest pistol bullet look like a shooting powerhouse. It is fundamental that when comparing projectiles of similar weight and shape, the smaller caliber bullet is always superior in sectional density and almost always superior in ballistic coefficient. In other words, it flies better and penetrates deeper, losing less of its terminal striking force than a bore sized bullet. Far from advanced, the Powerbelt is merely a pure lead conical. It is old wine in a new bottle, doing very little that the Minie balls of the Civil War did not do. The lighter versions do less. Pure lead can be scratched with your fingernail; drop a Powerbelt and it easily dents. Powerbelts, like all lead conicals, shorten and belly out upon firing. Powerbelts shoot exactly the same whether the green hula hoop skirt is attached or detached. They are simply slip fit conicals. Their sole benefit being that they need no messy lubrication of Crisco or other bullet lube, as the copper plating takes care of that. Unfortunately the better selling, lighter Powerbelts (245 and 295 grain) are the worst performers on game. The 348, 405, and 444 grain bullets are far more effective. Snip// The 405 and 444 grain renditions are easily the better bullets, doing their best work with loose powder. Unfortunately, CVA barrels are not rated for bullets this heavy. It is unwise to use heavy conicals in a muzzleloader with an extruded barreled. They are better reserved for use in frontloaders with high quality barrels, such as Knight, Thompson, and Savage. http://www.chuckhawks.com/powerbelt_bullets.htm