why do police take cover behind

SPUSCG · November 11, 2008, 07:47 PM

car doors if the cars arent bullet resistant at all?

FireCop203 · November 11, 2008, 07:51 PM

Sometimes it's all you have and it's better than nothing.

maxkimber · November 11, 2008, 07:53 PM

Here are a couple guesses:

- If they do it correctly, the door and the engine block are between them and the bad guy.
- It may be bullet resistant, but not bullet proof
- For camouflage, not cover - the bad guy might not see them through the window or see their feet.

- It looks cool on the news.

- Its better than covering your eyes?

Japle · November 11, 2008, 07:56 PM

Sheet metal isn't very bullet resistant, but there are locks and window mechanisms and motors in car doors. Also, the BG might be shooting a .22 or .32.

Cover is better than concealment.
Concealment is better than nothing.

SDC · November 11, 2008, 07:56 PM

Anything at all that abullet hits before it hits YOU is likely to slow it down, deflect it, or somehow reduce the damage it does if it actually hits you. Most cars are surprising bullet-resistant, at least to handgun calibres, and what they don't stop, they are more likely to cause to divert from the original trajectory. This morning, there was a short blurb in the news about a woman who was mugged, and when the attacker fired a shot at her, the bullet was stopped by the assorted crap in her purse, of all things. The moral of the story is, if someone's shooting at you, you want that bullet to have to go through as much stuff as possible before it hits you.

James K · November 11, 2008, 07:56 PM

Even the sheet metal of a car door can stop some low power bullets or deflect others. And a car door is not just a hollow shell. There are the rails and levers that control the window, and if the window is down, there is the window glass as well.

A car door might not be the best cover, but it is there and it sure beats the gunzine gurus pictured standing straight up, legs and feet at the perfect "approved" angle, making targets (and jackasses) of themselves. (IMHO, that shows that they either are incredibly stupid or have never had anything dangerous coming at them.)

In a gunfight, any cover is better than no cover. A curb, mail box, light post, anything that will come between your hide and flying lead. Cops wear bullet resistant vests; civilians normally do not (and in some states cannot legally) have such protection.

Jim

teeroux · November 11, 2008, 08:34 PM

Proper procedure for officers is to park the car at angle to the road and turn the tires, the angle of the car and the turned tires puts the engine and hard rubber and rims of the tires between them and possible threats when executed properly.

MisterPX · November 11, 2008, 09:09 PM

Two layers of sheet metal is better than nothing.

Plus, you'd be surprised at how many people don't shoot at something they can't see.

Deaf Smith · November 11, 2008, 10:16 PM

The car door can help if it's at an angle so the bullet ricochets off the door. And of course the glass, if rolled down, will help a little bit (just a little bit as 'The-box-o-truth' website showed.

What really won't help is to stand out in the open and swapping lead.

Striker071 · November 11, 2008, 11:36 PM

Well we have a door on 2 steel spikes we put up on the range and every other qualification they bring it out and we put holes through it at 15 yards. It is to show us that a car door is not good cover. But if you get in a situation it may be the only means of concealment. If the bad guy has a rifle then you better hope you have the engine in between you and the lead coming at you.

Dwight55 · November 11, 2008, 11:39 PM

One of my bosses a few years ago got to foolin' around with the wrong woman. Her husband took a .45 to my boss' Jag XKE, . . . denting the hood and lodging at the top of the windshield just below the chrome strip.

I was totally surprized when I saw it, . . . because I was totally looking for a half inch hole in the hood and goobers of damage to the internals, . . . just didn't happen.

The hood and doors are not "bullet proof", . . . but like another poster mentioned, . . . at the right angle, . . . they re-direct the travel, . . . just as good as a clean miss.

May God bless,
Dwight

cmking26 · November 12, 2008, 02:18 PM

Usually what happens is as said above you place the engine block between you and the shooter. Then you open the door and lean out behind the A pillar so you can return fire. Still using the engine block and A pillar as cover. The doors open but your not really behind it using it for cover. Does that make sense? Its kinda the best place to be in a bad situation.

Shawn Dodson · November 12, 2008, 02:28 PM

What protections do you have available to minimize your vulnerability to being hit by a bullet?

1. Cover
2. Distance
3. Movement
4. Concealment

Rule of thumb:
A car door always seems to provide cover for the bad guy, while acting as mere concealment for the good guy.

trublu · November 12, 2008, 05:49 PM

You can get back into the car quickly. Makes sense if the vehicle is armored (though that applies more to security than most police vehicles).

cmking26 · November 12, 2008, 08:48 PM

Supposedly the new crown vics have ballistic door panels. I havent heard of anyone trying them out yet though.

mpage · November 14, 2008, 10:22 PM

That area near the door hinge/post is as logical an area as any, during a felony stop, etc. That being said, the best place to seek cover is actually behind one of the wheels (of course, that's at a different angle).

Also, I'd imagine most police car doors these days will at least take the edge off of buckshot. Not too long ago your average large-size American auto door would actually stop most buckshot.

crashresidue · November 14, 2008, 11:17 PM

I'm going to go down a different road to answer.

I HAD to take my first wife to an abandoned house to PROVE to her that you CAN shoot through walls. "They NEVER can do that on tv!" was her response.

Most of the "tv" generation are of the firm belief that walls and car doors are bullet proof. Chances are that most bad guys are of that generation. Cops would take advantage of that.

My $.02.

cchardwick · November 15, 2008, 12:12 AM

If you are really worried about it just leave your windows up and fill your car doors with sand LOL. Six inches of sand will stop just about anything.

I like to find some secluded place to shoot and try all sorts of real world targets to determine if they are concealment or cover. You'd be surprised. I hear that .223 rifles have a tough time penetrating windshields because of the angle and most just bounce right off.

csmsss · November 15, 2008, 02:20 AM

To me, the only part of a vehicle I'd consider adequate cover would be a position where I could place at least one, preferably two wheels between myself and my adversary. Otherwise, the bad guy could just start shooting underneath the car body - and even if he doesn't hit you directly, you're likely to get struck by a ricochet, shrapnel, or debris kicked up off the tarmac. Even if you don't get struck solidly by the bullet, you're likely to be completely distracted by this and out of action while that's all going on.

I think, however, getting behind a vehicle is all about psychology - people tend to do it because they think it's good cover (even if most parts of a vehicle are not), and because they think the bad guy won't try to shoot through the vehicle to get to them.

Fact is, when someone's throwing lead in your direction, you probably won't have a great deal of time (nor the clarity of thought) to adequately consider and choose the ideal cover/concealment position - you're likely to go for whatever seems reasonable and is closest.

And I'd also suggest we all consider that just because a material such as a car door or a windshield may deflect the trajectory of a well-aimed bullet sufficiently to miss the target, there is also a good chance that it will deflect the trajectory of a poorly-aimed bullet sufficiently to send it your way. I certainly wouldn't count on only good things happening in this sort of scenario.

heyduke · November 15, 2008, 07:04 AM

Quote:

car doors if the cars arent bullet resistant at all?

Here is a test. Drive your car to an area that is out in the open.

Park the car and proceed to get out. When you're going this (getting out of the car), have a buddy take a couple of shots in your general direction.

See where you go for cover

kgpcr · November 17, 2008, 09:43 PM

The Marines taught me some cover is better than no cover!

Wagonman · November 17, 2008, 09:57 PM

+1 although it is concealment not cover

AmesJainchill · November 21, 2008, 03:44 PM

Yep. Anything is better than nothing. A head and arms peeking over a hood is a lot smaller target.

PT111 · November 21, 2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Here is a test. Drive your car to an area that is out in the open.

Park the car and proceed to get out. When you're going this (getting out of the car), have a buddy take a couple of shots in your general direction.

See where you go for cover

ROTFLOL at that one because you are exactly right. A car door may not provide adequate protection but it's better than nothing.

leadcounsel · November 21, 2008, 09:54 PM

Cover vs. concealment.

Cover is bullet proof (thick trees, brick wall, earth mound, sandbags, etc.)

Concealment is not bullet proof, but offers some protection because you are partly out of sight, a harder target, concealment may de-celerate or deflect the bullets. Household walls, appliances, furniture, and car doors are concealment.

Out in the open you are a sitting duck!

November 11, 2008, 07:47 PM	#1
SPUSCG Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2008 Posts: 3,004	why do police take cover behind car doors if the cars arent bullet resistant at all? __________________ Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies.

November 11, 2008, 07:53 PM	#3
maxkimber Member Join Date: February 19, 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 45	Here are a couple guesses: - If they do it correctly, the door and the engine block are between them and the bad guy. - It may be bullet resistant, but not bullet proof - For camouflage, not cover - the bad guy might not see them through the window or see their feet. - It looks cool on the news. - Its better than covering your eyes? __________________ Slow is smooth, smooth is fast... Last edited by maxkimber; November 11, 2008 at 07:59 PM.

November 11, 2008, 07:56 PM	#5
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	Anything at all that abullet hits before it hits YOU is likely to slow it down, deflect it, or somehow reduce the damage it does if it actually hits you. Most cars are surprising bullet-resistant, at least to handgun calibres, and what they don't stop, they are more likely to cause to divert from the original trajectory. This morning, there was a short blurb in the news about a woman who was mugged, and when the attacker fired a shot at her, the bullet was stopped by the assorted crap in her purse, of all things. The moral of the story is, if someone's shooting at you, you want that bullet to have to go through as much stuff as possible before it hits you. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

November 11, 2008, 10:16 PM	#9
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	The car door can help if it's at an angle so the bullet ricochets off the door. And of course the glass, if rolled down, will help a little bit (just a little bit as 'The-box-o-truth' website showed. What really won't help is to stand out in the open and swapping lead. __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

November 11, 2008, 11:39 PM	#11
Dwight55 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,568	One of my bosses a few years ago got to foolin' around with the wrong woman. Her husband took a .45 to my boss' Jag XKE, . . . denting the hood and lodging at the top of the windshield just below the chrome strip. I was totally surprized when I saw it, . . . because I was totally looking for a half inch hole in the hood and goobers of damage to the internals, . . . just didn't happen. The hood and doors are not "bullet proof", . . . but like another poster mentioned, . . . at the right angle, . . . they re-direct the travel, . . . just as good as a clean miss. May God bless, Dwight __________________ www.dwightsgunleather.com If you can breathe, . . . thank God! If you can read, . . . thank a teacher! If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!

November 11, 2008, 07:51 PM	#2
FireCop203 Member Join Date: October 8, 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 22	Sometimes it's all you have and it's better than nothing.

November 11, 2008, 07:56 PM	#4
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	Sheet metal isn't very bullet resistant, but there are locks and window mechanisms and motors in car doors. Also, the BG might be shooting a .22 or .32. Cover is better than concealment. Concealment is better than nothing.

November 11, 2008, 07:56 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Even the sheet metal of a car door can stop some low power bullets or deflect others. And a car door is not just a hollow shell. There are the rails and levers that control the window, and if the window is down, there is the window glass as well. A car door might not be the best cover, but it is there and it sure beats the gunzine gurus pictured standing straight up, legs and feet at the perfect "approved" angle, making targets (and jackasses) of themselves. (IMHO, that shows that they either are incredibly stupid or have never had anything dangerous coming at them.) In a gunfight, any cover is better than no cover. A curb, mail box, light post, anything that will come between your hide and flying lead. Cops wear bullet resistant vests; civilians normally do not (and in some states cannot legally) have such protection. Jim

November 11, 2008, 08:34 PM	#7
teeroux Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Posts: 1,512	Proper procedure for officers is to park the car at angle to the road and turn the tires, the angle of the car and the turned tires puts the engine and hard rubber and rims of the tires between them and possible threats when executed properly.

November 11, 2008, 09:09 PM	#8
MisterPX Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2006 Location: Amerika's Doyleland Posts: 809	Two layers of sheet metal is better than nothing. Plus, you'd be surprised at how many people don't shoot at something they can't see.

November 11, 2008, 11:36 PM	#10
Striker071 Member Join Date: July 9, 2008 Posts: 87	Well we have a door on 2 steel spikes we put up on the range and every other qualification they bring it out and we put holes through it at 15 yards. It is to show us that a car door is not good cover. But if you get in a situation it may be the only means of concealment. If the bad guy has a rifle then you better hope you have the engine in between you and the lead coming at you.

November 12, 2008, 02:18 PM	#12
cmking26 Member Join Date: November 5, 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 27	Usually what happens is as said above you place the engine block between you and the shooter. Then you open the door and lean out behind the A pillar so you can return fire. Still using the engine block and A pillar as cover. The doors open but your not really behind it using it for cover. Does that make sense? Its kinda the best place to be in a bad situation.

November 12, 2008, 02:28 PM	#13
Shawn Dodson Junior member Join Date: December 16, 1998 Location: Titusville, FL, USA Posts: 1,030	What protections do you have available to minimize your vulnerability to being hit by a bullet? 1. Cover 2. Distance 3. Movement 4. Concealment Rule of thumb: A car door always seems to provide cover for the bad guy, while acting as mere concealment for the good guy.

November 12, 2008, 05:49 PM	#14
trublu Member Join Date: November 5, 2008 Posts: 97	You can get back into the car quickly. Makes sense if the vehicle is armored (though that applies more to security than most police vehicles).

November 12, 2008, 08:48 PM	#15
cmking26 Member Join Date: November 5, 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 27	Supposedly the new crown vics have ballistic door panels. I havent heard of anyone trying them out yet though.

November 14, 2008, 10:22 PM	#16
mpage Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2006 Posts: 170	That area near the door hinge/post is as logical an area as any, during a felony stop, etc. That being said, the best place to seek cover is actually behind one of the wheels (of course, that's at a different angle). Also, I'd imagine most police car doors these days will at least take the edge off of buckshot. Not too long ago your average large-size American auto door would actually stop most buckshot.

November 14, 2008, 11:17 PM	#17
crashresidue Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Posts: 48	I'm going to go down a different road to answer. I HAD to take my first wife to an abandoned house to PROVE to her that you CAN shoot through walls. "They NEVER can do that on tv!" was her response. Most of the "tv" generation are of the firm belief that walls and car doors are bullet proof. Chances are that most bad guys are of that generation. Cops would take advantage of that. My $.02.

November 15, 2008, 12:12 AM	#18
cchardwick Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 574	If you are really worried about it just leave your windows up and fill your car doors with sand LOL. Six inches of sand will stop just about anything. I like to find some secluded place to shoot and try all sorts of real world targets to determine if they are concealment or cover. You'd be surprised. I hear that .223 rifles have a tough time penetrating windshields because of the angle and most just bounce right off.

November 15, 2008, 02:20 AM	#19
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	To me, the only part of a vehicle I'd consider adequate cover would be a position where I could place at least one, preferably two wheels between myself and my adversary. Otherwise, the bad guy could just start shooting underneath the car body - and even if he doesn't hit you directly, you're likely to get struck by a ricochet, shrapnel, or debris kicked up off the tarmac. Even if you don't get struck solidly by the bullet, you're likely to be completely distracted by this and out of action while that's all going on. I think, however, getting behind a vehicle is all about psychology - people tend to do it because they think it's good cover (even if most parts of a vehicle are not), and because they think the bad guy won't try to shoot through the vehicle to get to them. Fact is, when someone's throwing lead in your direction, you probably won't have a great deal of time (nor the clarity of thought) to adequately consider and choose the ideal cover/concealment position - you're likely to go for whatever seems reasonable and is closest. And I'd also suggest we all consider that just because a material such as a car door or a windshield may deflect the trajectory of a well-aimed bullet sufficiently to miss the target, there is also a good chance that it will deflect the trajectory of a poorly-aimed bullet sufficiently to send it your way. I certainly wouldn't count on only good things happening in this sort of scenario.

November 17, 2008, 09:43 PM	#21
kgpcr Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2005 Posts: 955	The Marines taught me some cover is better than no cover! __________________ Colt King Cobra .357 Colt Anaconda .44mag Springfield Armory .45 Double stack Loaded XD40 service XD45 Taurus 617 .357mag Smith M&P 40

November 17, 2008, 09:57 PM	#22
Wagonman Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,014	+1 although it is concealment not cover

November 21, 2008, 03:44 PM	#23
AmesJainchill Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Posts: 278	Yep. Anything is better than nothing. A head and arms peeking over a hood is a lot smaller target.

November 21, 2008, 09:54 PM	#25
leadcounsel Junior member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,119	Cover vs. concealment. Cover is bullet proof (thick trees, brick wall, earth mound, sandbags, etc.) Concealment is not bullet proof, but offers some protection because you are partly out of sight, a harder target, concealment may de-celerate or deflect the bullets. Household walls, appliances, furniture, and car doors are concealment. Out in the open you are a sitting duck!