Reloading AA HS 20 ga. Hulls

tjr61033 · September 18, 2008, 04:13 PM

Had been having a problem crimping using same menu (14.0 Hodgdon International, WAA20 wad, 7/7 oz lead shot) as for AA 20 ga. old style hulls. Because the Hodgdon poweder is somewhat bulky, the hull, after dropping the shot was too full for a proper crimp. The solution was to use a Renington RXP20 wad which is prox 1/8 inch shorter than the WAA20. Results were as near perfect a crimp as could be expected. PROBLEM The RXP20 wad is double the cost of the WAA20. Can anyone suggest an alternative wad?

mikenbarb · September 18, 2008, 07:38 PM

Check out the claybuster wads. Their supposed to be pretty good and dont kill you with the price.

.45 COLT · September 18, 2008, 09:46 PM

I think the only 20 Gauge wad that Claybuster makes is a WAA20 clone.

Downrange makes a wad that might do it for you. Call Kevin (402-463-3415) and tell him what you have in mind to do.

DC

zippy13 · September 18, 2008, 11:18 PM

First, a quick question, are you weighing your shot charge or relying on a bushing? If your charge is off, your column height may be, too.

Are you wed to Hodgdon Int'l powder? For many years, my favorite 20-ga load for practice and tournament has been:

7/8-oz 8's or 9's
Claybuster 1078-20 Wads (AA replacement size)
14.5 G Green Dot
WW209 primers

For Winchester Double-A (old style) Hulls (yes, some of my hulls are so old I still have a few Red AA 20's). It crushes targets and provides the correct column height for a perfect crimp time after time.

BigJimP · September 19, 2008, 06:53 PM

I'm paying $ 102.99 for 5,000 winchester WAA20 wads / $ 113.59 for 5,000 Remington RXP20 wads ( so they're about 10% more than Winchester ) - not double.... Recobs target shop on the internet - will ship in quantity to you - if your local gun club doesn't carry wads in case lots.

But I calculate the Remington wad at about 2.3 cents vs 2.05 cents for the Winchester ........ but if the Remington works better for you than the Winchester, I would buy and use the Remington for no more than its really going to cost you.

Personally, I use Duster wads at about $ 82 for 5,000 / but for 20ga I'm loading Rem STS hulls ( and they're a little longer than the Winchester hulls ). I think you'll find the Duster - orange for 20ga - are the same spec as the WAA20 so they probably won't help you on the old style WIN AA hulls.

olddrum1 · September 20, 2008, 01:32 AM

This came from the Winchester site and has been posted by me in another thread. It has to do with the HS round and reloading.

Question: How can I get a good crimp with the new 12-gauge AA high strength hull?
Answer: Winchester has designed the new 12-gauge AA high strength hull to reload with the same reloading data as the old AA hull. However, on some reloading machines, even though the components and reloading data are the same, there may need to be a minor crimp station adjustment made. Please contact your reloading machine manufacturer if you need assistance adjusting your crimp station. Shooters have found that after making a slight adjustment to the reloading machines good quality crimps and long reloading life are consistently obtained with the new AA high strength hull.

Could you tell me if this is a steel case hull? Try a magnet on the base. If this is the case, I had this problem with Federal 410 Gold Medal rounds a few years ago. Federals suggestion was to send the resizing dies on my relaoder out and have them turned to a greater clearance at a cost of $580 dollars so that I could reload 10 cases of their shells that I had bought. What I did was to send all ten cases of once fired hulls back to Federals corporate office a few at a time with a letter telling them what trash they had turned the Gold Medal name into. They finally sent me new shells but guess what. All steel hulls.

zippy13 · September 20, 2008, 11:36 AM

oddrum1
As you know, reloading .410's is a totally different world than the gauges. At best they are finicky and small problems can quickly snowball to try the patience of a saint. Ribbed hulls add to the aggravation because, among other things, they love to split during crimping. Among my circle of NSSAers, Double-A .410 hulls are the choice for reloading because of their smooth sides.

zippy13 · September 20, 2008, 11:41 AM

oddrum1
As you know, reloading .410's is a totally different world than the gauges. At best they are finicky and small problems can quickly snowball to try the patience of a saint. Ribbed hulls add to the aggravation because, among other things, they love to split during crimping. Among my circle of NSSAers, Double-A .410 hulls are the choice for reloading because of their smooth sides.

olddrum1 · September 20, 2008, 11:15 PM

Zippy13, I do not know what equipment you use but I have no problem running a ribbed hull with a brass base as compared to a smooth hull and brass base. Anyone that shoots alot of 410s in my belief should use nothing but a PW reloader. I can get a box of 410s loaded in under a minute and a half with perfect crimps using either type hull. I tried Mec starting out and went to the PW. My question and what I am wondering is if Winchester is trying to pawn off a cheap steel case hull as their top of the line AA hull. The easiest way to tell is with a magnet. You have to pull the primer in that it has a steel anvil in it, then try the magnet. I have emailed my Winchester contact and am still waiting for a response. They are not like the company that they used to be.

Waldog · September 23, 2008, 09:49 AM

I found the same problem with old style AA 20ga hulls and NEW STYLE WAA20 wads.

The "new" wads have been redesigned for the "new" AA style hulls, to be used with WIN Ball powder. Old hulls, new wads, 7/8 oz lead, any powder other than WIN simply won't fit. I had just bought a couple thousand "new" wads so I was really perplexed!

Here is what I found out. Since I had old AA hulls and "new" WAA20 wads I had to find a recipe that worked. Reduce you shot to 3/4 oz, use powder charge applicable for 3/4 lead load as outlined in just about any shotgun loading manual. Your crimps will be perfect and the shot difference between 3/4 oz and 7/8 oz is truly minor. These loads will break 25 straight!!

olddrum1 · September 23, 2008, 09:18 PM

Something that I have done is to line the shot cup in my reloader with tape. This causes the charge to be decreased a small amount. By the way Winchester emailed me and said that the HS is a brass hull so now I need to find out just what the difference is between the two. I would say less case capacity but thats a guess.

September 18, 2008, 04:13 PM	#1
tjr61033 Junior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Posts: 2	Reloading AA HS 20 ga. Hulls Had been having a problem crimping using same menu (14.0 Hodgdon International, WAA20 wad, 7/7 oz lead shot) as for AA 20 ga. old style hulls. Because the Hodgdon poweder is somewhat bulky, the hull, after dropping the shot was too full for a proper crimp. The solution was to use a Renington RXP20 wad which is prox 1/8 inch shorter than the WAA20. Results were as near perfect a crimp as could be expected. PROBLEM The RXP20 wad is double the cost of the WAA20. Can anyone suggest an alternative wad?

September 18, 2008, 07:38 PM	#2
mikenbarb Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2007 Location: N.J. Posts: 1,111	Check out the claybuster wads. Their supposed to be pretty good and dont kill you with the price. __________________ Mike B. Gun control= Being able to hit your target. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pifinnercircle

September 18, 2008, 11:18 PM	#4
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	First, a quick question, are you weighing your shot charge or relying on a bushing? If your charge is off, your column height may be, too. Are you wed to Hodgdon Int'l powder? For many years, my favorite 20-ga load for practice and tournament has been: 7/8-oz 8's or 9's Claybuster 1078-20 Wads (AA replacement size) 14.5 G Green Dot WW209 primers For Winchester Double-A (old style) Hulls (yes, some of my hulls are so old I still have a few Red AA 20's). It crushes targets and provides the correct column height for a perfect crimp time after time.

September 23, 2008, 09:49 AM	#10
Waldog Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2007 Location: SOCAL Posts: 359	I found the same problem with old style AA 20ga hulls and NEW STYLE WAA20 wads. The "new" wads have been redesigned for the "new" AA style hulls, to be used with WIN Ball powder. Old hulls, new wads, 7/8 oz lead, any powder other than WIN simply won't fit. I had just bought a couple thousand "new" wads so I was really perplexed! Here is what I found out. Since I had old AA hulls and "new" WAA20 wads I had to find a recipe that worked. Reduce you shot to 3/4 oz, use powder charge applicable for 3/4 lead load as outlined in just about any shotgun loading manual. Your crimps will be perfect and the shot difference between 3/4 oz and 7/8 oz is truly minor. These loads will break 25 straight!! __________________ I am the Christian Conservative that CNN warned you about!! “Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy.” Winston Churchill

September 18, 2008, 09:46 PM	#3
.45 COLT Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 308	I think the only 20 Gauge wad that Claybuster makes is a WAA20 clone. Downrange makes a wad that might do it for you. Call Kevin (402-463-3415) and tell him what you have in mind to do. DC

September 19, 2008, 06:53 PM	#5
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I'm paying $ 102.99 for 5,000 winchester WAA20 wads / $ 113.59 for 5,000 Remington RXP20 wads ( so they're about 10% more than Winchester ) - not double.... Recobs target shop on the internet - will ship in quantity to you - if your local gun club doesn't carry wads in case lots. But I calculate the Remington wad at about 2.3 cents vs 2.05 cents for the Winchester ........ but if the Remington works better for you than the Winchester, I would buy and use the Remington for no more than its really going to cost you. Personally, I use Duster wads at about $ 82 for 5,000 / but for 20ga I'm loading Rem STS hulls ( and they're a little longer than the Winchester hulls ). I think you'll find the Duster - orange for 20ga - are the same spec as the WAA20 so they probably won't help you on the old style WIN AA hulls.

September 20, 2008, 01:32 AM	#6
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	This came from the Winchester site and has been posted by me in another thread. It has to do with the HS round and reloading. Question: How can I get a good crimp with the new 12-gauge AA high strength hull? Answer: Winchester has designed the new 12-gauge AA high strength hull to reload with the same reloading data as the old AA hull. However, on some reloading machines, even though the components and reloading data are the same, there may need to be a minor crimp station adjustment made. Please contact your reloading machine manufacturer if you need assistance adjusting your crimp station. Shooters have found that after making a slight adjustment to the reloading machines good quality crimps and long reloading life are consistently obtained with the new AA high strength hull. Could you tell me if this is a steel case hull? Try a magnet on the base. If this is the case, I had this problem with Federal 410 Gold Medal rounds a few years ago. Federals suggestion was to send the resizing dies on my relaoder out and have them turned to a greater clearance at a cost of $580 dollars so that I could reload 10 cases of their shells that I had bought. What I did was to send all ten cases of once fired hulls back to Federals corporate office a few at a time with a letter telling them what trash they had turned the Gold Medal name into. They finally sent me new shells but guess what. All steel hulls.

September 20, 2008, 11:36 AM	#7
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	oddrum1 As you know, reloading .410's is a totally different world than the gauges. At best they are finicky and small problems can quickly snowball to try the patience of a saint. Ribbed hulls add to the aggravation because, among other things, they love to split during crimping. Among my circle of NSSAers, Double-A .410 hulls are the choice for reloading because of their smooth sides.

September 20, 2008, 11:41 AM	#8
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	oddrum1 As you know, reloading .410's is a totally different world than the gauges. At best they are finicky and small problems can quickly snowball to try the patience of a saint. Ribbed hulls add to the aggravation because, among other things, they love to split during crimping. Among my circle of NSSAers, Double-A .410 hulls are the choice for reloading because of their smooth sides.

September 20, 2008, 11:15 PM	#9
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	Zippy13, I do not know what equipment you use but I have no problem running a ribbed hull with a brass base as compared to a smooth hull and brass base. Anyone that shoots alot of 410s in my belief should use nothing but a PW reloader. I can get a box of 410s loaded in under a minute and a half with perfect crimps using either type hull. I tried Mec starting out and went to the PW. My question and what I am wondering is if Winchester is trying to pawn off a cheap steel case hull as their top of the line AA hull. The easiest way to tell is with a magnet. You have to pull the primer in that it has a steel anvil in it, then try the magnet. I have emailed my Winchester contact and am still waiting for a response. They are not like the company that they used to be.

September 23, 2008, 09:18 PM	#11
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	Something that I have done is to line the shot cup in my reloader with tape. This causes the charge to be decreased a small amount. By the way Winchester emailed me and said that the HS is a brass hull so now I need to find out just what the difference is between the two. I would say less case capacity but thats a guess.