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Old August 29, 2014, 10:39 PM   #101
robmkivseries70
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On the 10-22, the trigger can most likely use some work which will help. On sights I recommend a military peep on the rear. The Williams WGRS-RU-22 will give excellent results.
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Old August 30, 2014, 08:07 AM   #102
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What would the sight picture be like on those fire sights ( the peep one). Would the front sight cover up the entire aperture?
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Old August 30, 2014, 09:29 AM   #103
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Hi MO,
No problem seeing through the sights, these are what I use on my 10-22, Peeps allow more accurate alignment as your eye will naturally center the front post in the rear. Different sized rear apertures can be had as well.
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Old August 30, 2014, 09:30 AM   #104
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So they're better than the stock sights for target shooting?
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Old August 30, 2014, 09:59 AM   #105
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Until you can shoot as well (or at least close) as the original sights, you're money is much better spent on shooting.
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Old August 30, 2014, 11:25 AM   #106
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I agree with Brian, for reasons previously stated.

The fiber optics I suggested are a notch & post version, suggested only to address your comments about your vision.

I'd learn conventional notch & post on your 10/22, if you can see them well enough.
They'll translate better all the way around to other guns.
As I said earlier, at some point you're going to have to learn notch & post anyway.

Your choice, Mo.
Denis
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Old August 30, 2014, 12:16 PM   #107
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I would set up your 10/22 in a variety of field and rested positions starting at 25 yards. Shoot black bulls, empty cases, plastic soldiers, tennis balls, bottle caps taped to paper etc. Shoot for precision (single small targets) and accuracy (good size groups). From a solid rest (even a sandbag on the ground) you should easily hit any target you can think of at 25 and have a group under 1 inch. When you are comfortable with that, you can move it out to 50 and then 100. You might want a scope or spotting scope for 100 - I like the Nikon P22 for a quality budget .22 scope.

By that point, you may have shot a couple thousand rounds, but you should be able to do it for around $100 instead of $500 for a new rifle and $500 for the same amount of ammo.

Nothing helped my large (ish) center fire rifle shooting like .22 shooting and dry firing
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Old August 30, 2014, 12:38 PM   #108
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Working with Mo in PMs.
He can't reliably keep groups together at 50 yards on a large black bull off a stable bench with his 10/22 yet; field positions & alternative targets are not in the picture till he can.

Getting him to focus on one standardized program while learning has been difficult & until he can settle down with as many variables eliminated as possible, he's not making much progress.

Adding variables, right now, only muddies the picture & makes it hard to analyze what he's doing.
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Old August 30, 2014, 01:11 PM   #109
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That is a good point. If you are working with him, a standardized training is good. I do think the answer is a lot of time behind the .22
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Old August 30, 2014, 01:23 PM   #110
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Agree fully on lots of .22 time, and that's been a major struggle in getting the point over in itself.

We're trying to fine tune getting his gun zeroed, shooting a standard number of rounds at one target at one distance from one position to analyze, and pulling everything together there before he goes on to anything more advanced.

From a target photo he sent last night, looks like close to zero on the gun, which is an important step.
Moving forward, but slowly, and the slowly part's hard for Mo.
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Old August 30, 2014, 01:38 PM   #111
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practice makes perfect
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Old August 30, 2014, 01:47 PM   #112
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Should I move my rear sight up one notch so it hits closer to the bullseye? Also, I'll get you some pictures of groups later this evening, Denis. It's rather hot right now, so I'm going to wait before I shoot.
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Old August 30, 2014, 02:19 PM   #113
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No.
On yesterday's target photo, you appear to have three different 10-shot groups at three different elevations on the same target, using two different aimpoints.

Mo, remember all our discussions on eliminating variables.
It is impossible to analyze in any meaningful way when you keep changing things before we figure out what's going on already.

Please- do what I said.

5-shots PER TARGET, 6 o'clock hold, solid bench position, 50 yards.
Sight picture, breath control, trigger.

Several groups/targets, when you can.

NO OTHER CHANGES YET!

It is critically important for you to TAKE THE TIME TO DO IT RIGHT, and let's figure out where you are now before doing anything with the sights.

If you can't achieve consistency, and a decent group, fiddling with sight changes is not going to help.

Not so important WHERE that group is, precisely, as being able to GET a consistent group SOMEWHERE.

Appears most of your hits are in the black, so that's close enough for now.
When you can produce fairly tight, or at least fairly consistent, groups on demand, we can fine tune your sights.

At the moment, the black bull is only an aiming point to create an analytical group to get useful data.
Later, placement will come into play.
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Old August 30, 2014, 02:24 PM   #114
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Okay, sorry. I'll try to get you some groups today don't know if my dad will let me shoot 5 targets in one day. I'll at least get 2. Sorry if this is not good enough. Thanks again.
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Old August 30, 2014, 02:47 PM   #115
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Mo,

Do what you can, when you can.
But-

The idea in firing several groups at a session is to allow you to settle in and concentrate on all aspects.

I don't know about others, but I do T&E sessions that involve hours at a time, with anywhere from 100 to 300 rounds through an individual gun.

I frequently find it can take me 20 or thirty shots in some cases, depending on the gun, just to settle in & warm up.

I'm not sure you understand quite what's involved in where you're trying to go.

An occasional episode where you only shoot one or two targets is not going to get you to a point where you can expect to realistically enter competition anywhere, with any gun, if that's what you'd like to do someday, as you've mentioned.

I don't mean, as I've said before, to criticize your Dad, but you need to understand that it'll take regular practice with your gun to really progress, and that's as a foundation for moving back up to the milsurps eventually, too.

30-minute firing sessions is sorta a minimum.
Allows you to take a leisurely pace, concentrate, check targets, note results, take a short break in between, keep it relaxed, and still fire enough rounds to analyze & build muscle memory & repetitive patterns.

You need to understand that yourself, and to communicate that with your father.

It'll take time, and it'll take dedicated practice.
A casual pop-off-a-few-all-jumbled-up-on-one-target approach won't do much for you, if you want to get very far.

Don't push for today if it's too hot there.
But, we'll need enough groups on enough targets to determine a trend, and one or two won't do that very well.

The more data, the better the end analysis.

If you can't shoot 5 targets in a single outing, you're really handicapped.
No disrespect to either of you, but you both need to understand that.
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Old August 30, 2014, 02:52 PM   #116
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Ill shoot 5 targets, 5 shots each. I paid for the targets, so I should be able to shoot them. What ammo should I use? I only have 20 rounds left of what I used yesterday. CCI Minimags? Eley CLub Extra? Remington Vipers?
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Old August 30, 2014, 03:14 PM   #117
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Ammo is another variable that needs to be eliminated.

Pick one, buy bulk, stick to it.

I've standardized on American Eagle for tests & personal use.
Relatively affordable, reliable & consistent.


CCI solids are an industry standard, always good, may be more expensive.
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Old August 30, 2014, 03:26 PM   #118
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At the moment, Mo, just finish up your 20 of what you shot yesterday, 5 shots each, on four targets.

Don't do anything after that till you can acquire enough of ONE BRAND/CARTRIDGE to shoot a bunch.

There's a lot of variation in point of impact between brands & bullets, and we won't be able to tell if a shifting point of impact is you, the gun, or the bullet, if you switch around on different loads.
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Old August 30, 2014, 03:33 PM   #119
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Great, my LGS carries them in packs of 500! I will buy a pack the next time I go. Aguila Super Extra that is. It's like $60 for 500 but it's a lot better than any center fire ammo costs.
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Old August 30, 2014, 07:51 PM   #120
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OK, if you've got the money.
Your groups look like your gun likes 'em.
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Old August 30, 2014, 07:55 PM   #121
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Yeah, that's what my dad said. For sixty dollars a five hundred, it's a lot cheaper than any center fire am I've seen. Also, it says your Inbox is full, so I can't reply directly, but those shots that missed went low. I didn't get a a measurement of how low. Maybe 1 or 1 1/2 depending on the target.
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Old August 30, 2014, 11:31 PM   #122
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[QUOTE I'd like to get something better than the stock sights, as I don't like them that much.][/QUOTE]

http://www.tech-sights.com/ Cheaper than a new firearm.
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Old August 31, 2014, 12:48 AM   #123
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He's aware of them.
Been discussed.
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Old September 1, 2014, 12:46 AM   #124
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Hey Mo,

BB gun. Seriously.

I shoot Mosin, Gewehr 88, rimfire, pistol, slingshot, bow, sling (David and Goliath), and probably other stuff I'm just not thinking of right now.

I regularly break out the Red Ryder, myself, in addition to dry firing the centerfire rifles.

Take up slack, breathe in, out, in, out, NRP, press the trigger, breathe in, work action, repeat.

It's the same with a BB gun as it is with a Mosin as it is with a bow as it is with an old German gun.

NPOA and NRP are where it's at. You might try Appleseed.

Prone, you should sort of build your skeletal support system so that you do not have to have muscles holding you in place. Sort of build up and relax all tension in muscles you don't need.

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Old September 1, 2014, 09:05 AM   #125
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He has tried Appleseed, didn't help.
Hasn't entirely figured out a bench position consistently yet, not ready for prone.

Those who keep telling him to try field positions at this stage are not helping.
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