Newbie thinking about reloading

[06shooter]

Hey guys I'm new to your forum and I will appreciate any help !
I want to reload for whitetails and my own quality control for 3006 bolt vanguard s2.
What's keeping me from moving forward is cases.
If a first time fired case fits and I'm able to close the bolt with ease does this mean I can neck size only and will the bolt extract the case on the 2nd firing ?

With new cases, do they have to be FL sized and does FL sizing neck size to ?

What about bumping the shoulder ?
When I measure a once fired case for 3006 it is at 2.483 ", does this mean the shoulder is where it should be ?

I have more questions but I will stop here !
I want to be safe and accurate with a simple way of putting this all together.

Thanks again for your time !

[9mmSkeeter]

Most modern carbide dies (the ones you want anyways) come in a 2-die set. The first one deprimes (also called decapping) when the ram is lowered, and then on the way back up the case is sized. The second die is merely the bullet seating die.

I'm sure there are three and four die sets, but a lot of folks just use the 2 die sets.

Edit : sorry if that didnt answer your question, that's really all I can offer here as I don't buy brass and I don't own your gun

Edit again : ram handle, not ram. Guy below me caught it. Doesn't matter that much but thought I'd be clear.

[hartcreek]

9mm Skeeter has his stokes confused but as for your question....... If you are only reloading for yourself and you are using factory cases and only using those fired cases in your rifle then you can neck size only.

I full size because I never know if someone will want to bum a few rounds plus I am cheep so I try and only purchase once fired brass.

Full sizeing does lesson case life BUT I have more then a hundred cases that predate WWII and only now am I culling some of those cases.

In my case I have a 1952 Remington 721 in 30-06 and it has one heck of a tight chamber.

You can purchase carbide rifle cases if you want to. Probably most reloaders only purchase carbide pistol cases.

The length that you stated 2.483 that is the case length so no it does not necessarily mean that the shoulder is in the right place. The shoulder should be 1.948 and the neck 2.111

The best way to be safe and accurate is to start with reading how to do it is several books such as the ABCs of reloading and now with the net checking out videos on Youtube that are done by professionals not numbnuts.

This guy wont steer you wrong
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWJ...WvOsdyRF3HPVEw

[gman3]

Yes if you are loading for only one rifle you can neck size a few times. be careful to check the trim length of the case, as they will get a bit longer over repeated firing. Yes, full length sizing does size the neck as well.

With neck sizing, the case will eventually become hard to chamber, and will need to be full length sized. When this occurs will depend on a few things, such as how hot your loads are, and the chamber in your rifle.

When full length sizing, this can be over done, resulting in very short case life. An easy way to do that right, is to use a case gauge such as the L.E. Wilson case gauge to set up your sizing die. They are relatively cheap, and easy to use.

As someone already said, get a manual and read it over and over. Study it carefully, and be careful! If something doesn't seem right, it probably isn't, such as the time when I was new at it and was wondering why the recommended powder charge would not fit in the case. I found out that different brand cases have different capacities.

Use the components that are recommended in the load data, don't substitute, start low and work up. In the example that I mentioned where the powder wouldn't fit in the case, I was substituting a military case for a Winchester case. I was also starting at the max load, also a very bad thing.


It would have been an overcharge. I asked the question on here and got spanked just a little. Not too bad, but it taught me a lesson that maybe saved a finger, eye, or worse.

Oh, welcome to TFL.

Get a bullet puller too, you will need it eventually.

[jimbob86]

As long as you are only loading for one gun, neck sizing makes everything simpler, easier .... loads generally are more consistant, and brass lasts much longer.

I'm sure there will be someone come along and say that Full Length Sizing will give better accuracy and longer brass life if done perfectly every time ..... that has not been my experience.

I use the Lee Collet neck sizing die. I like it.

[Bart B.]

It helps a lot if new reloaders have a good mechanical aptitude and knowledge of how the different reloading tools interact with each other as well as with the components used to reload a new or fired case. Plus a reasonable ability to use hand tools as well as understanding the terminology used explaining how to do and use things.

Once that's achieved, solving problems is easy. A good place to start is SAAMI's glossary of terms listed in the Info & Specs section of www.saami.org .

[603Country]

I'm a fan of the Lee Collet Dies also, which for the benefit of the OP, are neck sizing dies. At some point however, the OP is going to need to reduce the size of the case, as it will begin to be a bit snug when chambering, or someone may give him some cases that weren't fired in his rifle. I'm thinking that for a beginner it might be best to start with standard full length resizing dies and later acquire a neck sizing die if he wants.

[9mmSkeeter]

Yeah, it was late, I meant the ram handle.

[06shooter]

Thanks guys for the response !!!!
Yes trying to decide on who I want to go with as far as a reload manual to start with .
What about new cases , FL size ?

What about case extraction with neck sizing , say on the 2nd or 3rd firing

[trapper9260]

For your handbook get the Lyman one that is out now it will help you alot.It also give you all steps you need to know and also have some about casting too.As for what you ask about the same case use in the same gun ,you are ok for what is stated for the gun you will use it in ,but I found that if it is a semi-auto it is best to full size them.That is what a gun smith told me about for one of my rifles.Also if you get once fired cases you will need also to full size them also.if you will just load jacket bullets you just need a 2 die but if you are going to load cast also then you will need a extra die like a M die.

[06shooter]

I think I will get the Lyman 49th edition .
Thanks for the help everyone !

If the 49th edition is on the shelf tomorrow I'm gonna get it !

[hartcreek]

Seperate you brass by headstamp and then weigh a few from each headstamp so you have an average weight for each headstamp. The heaviest cases will have the least volume so use the heaviest cases for your starting point so that all your cases no mater what headstamp will have the same weight of powder as you starting point with the heaviest cases.

You might not think that there can be that much variance but I have cases that the maximum volume can be 4 grains more then the heaviest.

[06shooter]

OK , thanks !
What are the best and reliable primers for 3006 ?
Manuals that call for a certain primers , can they be replaced with something else ?

[Gadawg88]

Yes you can substitute one Large Rifle primer brand for a different Large Rifle primer brand. If you are loading near the max though, you should probably be cautious and drop down a bit and work back up if you substitute a different primer in a previously tested load. I use CCl primers exclusively for all pistol and rifle loads.

[jimbob86]

Manuals that call for a certain primers , can they be replaced with something else ?

Any time you change anything (brand of components, seating depth, etc.) in a load, start back at the start load and work back up.

[Thunderkiss]

I'm thinking that for a beginner it might be best to start with standard full length resizing dies and later acquire a neck sizing die if he wants.

That is the advice I was given when I started reloading. I bought Lee Pacesetter dies. RCBS dies are also very good.

[06shooter]

What kind of results did some of get when you started with the published starting loads in 3006 ( if you use this caliber ) by using their most accurate load and bullet weight ?

With reloads at the minimum , will it carry enough speed and energy to take a whitetail at at 200 yards ?

Thanks guys !!!!!

[jimbob86]

With reloads at the minimum , will it carry enough speed and energy to take a whitetail at at 200 yards ?

Depends upon the powder- Bullseye garden pest loads? No. Minumum loads of Trailboss? I wouldn't try 200 yards .....

More standard powders? They'd probably work just fine if they are accurate enough. Velocity-wise, you'll still be around 30/30 performance levels or better ...... my dad uses a 30-06, and hunts whitetails with a light load of IMR4320, getting about 2600 f/sec with a 150gr bullet...... seems to work.

It's been my experience that the most consistant and accurate loads are neither the "start" nor "do not exceed" loads .... you won't know until you try.



Work up a load. Load 10 or 20 of each charge weight and shoot them for groups, and see which gives you the smallest. If you have a chronograph, you can check the muzzle velocities and see how consistant they are

[Economist]

46.5 grains of 4064 under a 147 grain FMJ in a military case yielded an average of 2547 FPS at the muzzle from my Garand. That's about 2100 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle, and 1460 ft-lbs at 200 yards (where its velocity is still around 2115 FPS). While your choice of bullet will make a difference in the downrange velocity, at 200 yards the difference will be slight.

Yeah, that should still work on a deer.

[44 AMP]

Welcome to TFL!

A friendly word of warning, you can get more information here than you can handle, at once, so try to take it in small bites!

I've been reloading since about 1970, and am currently set up for over 30 different rifle and pistol cartridges, and have, over the years, learned a thing or two, so lets see if we can get you going on the right path.

You have been given some good advice already, so lets expand on that..

Regular rifle dies .30-06 are a two die set. You don't need anything more than that, for dies. The full length sizer die can be adjusted to only neck size the cases. Study the maker's instructions, and come back here if you need help.

The dies are steel, and you MUST lubricate the cases!!! This is important!
Carbide sizer dies for bottleneck cases (like the .30-06) do exist, but they cost hundred of dollars and you still need to lubricate the cases. They are made for "professional" ammo makers, and while the home hobbyist could use them, it's a waste of money.

Carbide dies for pistol (straight wall) cases are different, and very useful to the reloader, and you don't need to lube the pistol cases when using carbide dies.

The Lyman book is a classic reference and gives you a lot of good information. As you learn more about it, you will have more questions, we all did. This is a good place to get answers.

Brand new brass ought to be good to go, but many of us size it anyway. Often new brass has bent, or "out of round" case mouths (due to loose packing) and may require chamfering. FL sizing puts everything back to "standard".

You haven't mentioned what gear you have, or are planning on getting. opinions vary a lot, and some people are very brand loyal. Reloading tools are things we generally only buy once, so, I don't think you should let the sticker price be the only deciding factor.

good luck, ask anything you can think of, we'll be here.

[06shooter]

Thanks 44amp for you and everyone's support !
I'm thinking about the RCBS single stage press.
I would like to make my own ammo that I can group at least 1" or better @100 yards and take whitetails out to 200 yards.
My 3006 Weatherby s2 is a sub moa rifle with power shoks and sciroccos 150 gr.
I'm tired of the inconsistencies and poor quality control with low end and high end ammo.

If I can't be successful, I'll just have to deal with it .

I'm finding different charge weights , seating depths and bullets spinning inside case from the factory , oh and today I found a nosler accubond 165 gr. 3006 round stamped 25-06. ( everything measures out to a 30-06 round.

I do have a ton of questions though.

THANKS AGAIN !!!!!!

[Bart B.]

44 AMP, most bottleneck fired cases neck only sized in full length sizing dies are hard to chamber. Such processes move the fired case shoulder forward while the case body starts sizing down and sometimes enough that they cannot be chambered without a pipe "cheater" on the bolt handle. Unless the die's set to move the shoulder back the last few thousandths of case movement up into the die, case headspace after sizing will be greater than before sizing. Besides, they're typically less accurate than new cases or properly full length sized fired ones because they don't allow the bolt head to position the same from shot to shot.

Regarding neck only versus full length sizing..... Benchresters switched over from neck only to full length sizing some years ago. 'Twas back in the 1950's that Sierra Bullets proved full length sizing bottleneck cases gave better and more consistant accuracy that neck only sizing. Neck only sized cases do not fit the chamber and align the bullet better to the bore than full length sized ones. Facts are, they often misalign the bullets too much; the reason benchresters had to full length size their neck only sized cases every few shots. And proper full length sizing yields a few dozen or more reloads per bottleneck case; just reduce case dimensions no more than a couple thousandths and that's normal with properly set dies in the press.

Both methods produce equally tiny groups once in a while, but full length sized cases produce smaller "biggest" groups.

[44 AMP]

Bart, I bow to your experience with neck sizing, it is actually something I have never done in over 40 years of reloading. I always set my dies "all the way down" for full length sizing, and have never had any issues in any of my guns. I am considering making an exception, however, in one case.

.303 British. However that won't be until the next time I do a loading cycle for them, and it will likely be a while. I am hoping that in .303 neck sizing will extend overall case life. I won't be looking for any special accuracy improvement, I doubt I would get it.

One thing is a bit puzzling, if everything is properly lubed (including the inside) how does the sizer allow anything to "move forward"? I can see it if the expander ball is dragging through the neck, possibly pulling the case out of shape, is that what you mean?

[Bart B.]

44 AMP, as the last inch or so of a bottleneck case goes up into the die, its body starts getting sized down and that makes the body longer. That, in turn moves the shoulder forward. The more the case body is sized down, the more the shoulder moves forward further away from the case head. That keeps on happening until the case shoulder finally stops against the die shoulder then stays there as the last few thousandths of the case head gets pushed up further.

Take a fired bottleneck case, measure its headspace from head to shoulder, then measure it again for each 1/4th inch of case movement inside the die. Start the case in then raise the ram 1/4th inch, then back the case out to measure it. Put the case back in but size it another 1/4 inch, pull it out then measure it. Each succeding case headspace measurement will be a thousandth or so greater until the shell holder's almost touching the bottom of the die. The last few thousandths of case movement up into the die sets the shoulder back. Post #8 in the following shows this:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=551641

Best accuracy and case life typically happens when the fired case shoulder's set back about .002" for bolt guns. Any more, which returns the case headspace back to about new case dimension, shortens case life and accuracy suffers a little; sometimes a lot.