Antique .45 ACP

cloak · January 20, 2014, 05:30 PM

Hi,

I'm looking to buy an antique pistol but I'm not having any luck finding one online. The antiques I've seen either don't look like a gun (they don't even have a trigger) or they do look like a great antique pistol but though listed as an antique, they have all the legalities of a modern handgun. Where can I find a nice antique .45 online that can legally be mailed straight to me?

mapsjanhere · January 20, 2014, 05:34 PM

You'd have to invent time travel for that. As the name indicates, the 1911 was made AFTER 1898 - which means it's not an antique. Even the 45 ACP wasn't developed until 1904.

PetahW · January 20, 2014, 05:53 PM

.

Welcome to TFL !

AFAIK, NO .45ACP handgun can be legally mailed to you, under Federal Law - w/o going through an FFL.

Also AFAIK, legally, an "antique" needs to have been made prior to 1898; although some post-1898 handguns are classified as "curios & relics".

Any firearm over 50 years old can be a C&R, and may not be listed here:

http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...elics-list.pdf

The C&R listing has been updated by BATF several times: http://www.atf.gov/publications/fire...ics/index.html

If interested in a non-listed firearm over 50 years old, I would strongly advise checking directly with BATF to find out if the particular gun is OK or not.

.

.

mapsjanhere · January 20, 2014, 06:09 PM

Oh, I'm sure somewhere out there are some early Webley revolvers converted to 45 ACP with halfmoon clips. Nothing like a blackpowder gun with 20,000 psi loads to make your day exciting.

James K · January 20, 2014, 07:07 PM

But a Curio & Relic firearm can be shipped directly to you ONLY if you have a Collector's Federal Firearms License. Without that FFL, the gun would have be be shipped to your local dealer.

Jim

BillM · January 20, 2014, 07:11 PM

As has been stated ---the 45 ACP (Automatic Colts Pistol) cartridge
didn't exist until after 1900, so no antique.

Depending on where you live, you may be able to get black powder
firearms delivered directly to you. Either single shot or revolvers, they
load with loose powder and round or conical bullets.

I'm guessing that you just want something that LOOKS like an old pistol,
and that 3 minutes ago you had no idea what ACP stood for.

Welcome to the forum.

gyvel · January 21, 2014, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Also AFAIK, legally, an "antique" needs to have been made prior to 1898;

An antique firearm is any one made before Jan. 1, 1899, not 1898.

kilimanjaro · January 21, 2014, 12:30 PM

If you can't walk into a dealer and legally purchase a handgun, you can't purchase a handgun. Just because something was made in 1898 doesn't mean it isn't a firearm.

RJay · January 21, 2014, 12:33 PM

Odd post, that.

cloak · January 21, 2014, 01:29 PM

Thanks.

James K · January 21, 2014, 06:37 PM

"Just because something was made in 1898 doesn't mean it isn't a firearm."

It may be a "firearm" in the general meaning of the word, but the federal laws define terms used in the law for the purpose of the law. The FFA states that if a gun was made prior to 1 January 1899 or does not use fixed ammunition, it is an antique firearm and NOT a "firearm" under that law. But another Federal Law, the NFA, defines terms differently, so (for example) a machinegun made in 1898 (there are some) is still a "firearm" under that law.

Jim

PetahW · January 21, 2014, 07:07 PM

.

FYI, cloak - From BATF:

http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps4...005/p53004.pdf

(16) The term "antique firearm" means —

(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or

(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica —

. .(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or

. .(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade

(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzleloading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition.

For purposes of this subparagraph, the term "antique firearm" shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

.

Jim Watson · January 21, 2014, 07:16 PM

Not everybody goes by BATF definitions. Some state law is stricter. Post Office regulations are stricter.
And anything you might have about you to amount to "going armed" is regulated in many jurisdictions.
You can mail order a cap & ball revolver with no Federal interference. Try wearing it downtown and see how far you get. Or don't, because you won't get far.

Heavy Metal 1 · January 22, 2014, 09:01 PM

well I hope you are a new member and not a troll because many times trolls have very low post counts and post 'where can I get a machinegun" or "where can I get a **** off the record" type of postings and yours almost seems as if that could be the case being that you want to avoid a gunshop or gunshow...now if you are not a troll don't take offense to what I just said. Gun forums are baited by ATF and their informants and antigunners all the time trying to pin charges against otherwise helpful folks so pardon my distrust.

Now that that is out of the way...For a while there were Argentine 45s available "through the mail" if you have your C&R. I don't know who may have them for sale now.

So why is it you want to go through the mail (UPS whatever) for this purchase?

Doc Hoy · January 23, 2014, 08:46 PM

I traded for one at a gun show and I love it.

It was built in about 1942. It performs that same as my brand new RIA 1911, which performs the same as the Springfield 1911s I used in the Navy.

Go to a gun show.

You can handle all kinds of firearms so you can make an intelligent choice. You will find more variety available than most gun shops and you don't have to worry about the mail. You pays your money. They does the background check if it is needed. You gets the pistol you wants.

January 20, 2014, 05:30 PM	#1
cloak Junior Member Join Date: January 19, 2014 Posts: 2	Antique .45 ACP Hi, I'm looking to buy an antique pistol but I'm not having any luck finding one online. The antiques I've seen either don't look like a gun (they don't even have a trigger) or they do look like a great antique pistol but though listed as an antique, they have all the legalities of a modern handgun. Where can I find a nice antique .45 online that can legally be mailed straight to me?

January 20, 2014, 05:34 PM	#2
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	You'd have to invent time travel for that. As the name indicates, the 1911 was made AFTER 1898 - which means it's not an antique. Even the 45 ACP wasn't developed until 1904. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

January 20, 2014, 06:09 PM	#4
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Oh, I'm sure somewhere out there are some early Webley revolvers converted to 45 ACP with halfmoon clips. Nothing like a blackpowder gun with 20,000 psi loads to make your day exciting. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

January 21, 2014, 12:33 PM	#9
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Odd post, that. __________________ Ron James

January 21, 2014, 06:37 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"Just because something was made in 1898 doesn't mean it isn't a firearm." It may be a "firearm" in the general meaning of the word, but the federal laws define terms used in the law for the purpose of the law. The FFA states that if a gun was made prior to 1 January 1899 or does not use fixed ammunition, it is an antique firearm and NOT a "firearm" under that law. But another Federal Law, the NFA, defines terms differently, so (for example) a machinegun made in 1898 (there are some) is still a "firearm" under that law. Jim Last edited by James K; January 21, 2014 at 06:48 PM.

January 20, 2014, 05:53 PM	#3
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. Welcome to TFL ! AFAIK, NO .45ACP handgun can be legally mailed to you, under Federal Law - w/o going through an FFL. Also AFAIK, legally, an "antique" needs to have been made prior to 1898; although some post-1898 handguns are classified as "curios & relics". Any firearm over 50 years old can be a C&R, and may not be listed here: http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...elics-list.pdf The C&R listing has been updated by BATF several times: http://www.atf.gov/publications/fire...ics/index.html If interested in a non-listed firearm over 50 years old, I would strongly advise checking directly with BATF to find out if the particular gun is OK or not. . .

January 20, 2014, 07:07 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	But a Curio & Relic firearm can be shipped directly to you ONLY if you have a Collector's Federal Firearms License. Without that FFL, the gun would have be be shipped to your local dealer. Jim

January 20, 2014, 07:11 PM	#6
BillM Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Amity Oregon Posts: 791	As has been stated ---the 45 ACP (Automatic Colts Pistol) cartridge didn't exist until after 1900, so no antique. Depending on where you live, you may be able to get black powder firearms delivered directly to you. Either single shot or revolvers, they load with loose powder and round or conical bullets. I'm guessing that you just want something that LOOKS like an old pistol, and that 3 minutes ago you had no idea what ACP stood for. Welcome to the forum.

January 21, 2014, 12:30 PM	#8
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	If you can't walk into a dealer and legally purchase a handgun, you can't purchase a handgun. Just because something was made in 1898 doesn't mean it isn't a firearm.

January 21, 2014, 01:29 PM	#10
cloak Junior Member Join Date: January 19, 2014 Posts: 2	Thanks.

January 21, 2014, 07:07 PM	#12
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. FYI, cloak - From BATF: http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps4...005/p53004.pdf (16) The term "antique firearm" means — (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica — . .(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or . .(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade (C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzleloading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term "antique firearm" shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof. .

January 21, 2014, 07:16 PM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Not everybody goes by BATF definitions. Some state law is stricter. Post Office regulations are stricter. And anything you might have about you to amount to "going armed" is regulated in many jurisdictions. You can mail order a cap & ball revolver with no Federal interference. Try wearing it downtown and see how far you get. Or don't, because you won't get far.

January 22, 2014, 09:01 PM	#14
Heavy Metal 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 247	well I hope you are a new member and not a troll because many times trolls have very low post counts and post 'where can I get a machinegun" or "where can I get a **** off the record" type of postings and yours almost seems as if that could be the case being that you want to avoid a gunshop or gunshow...now if you are not a troll don't take offense to what I just said. Gun forums are baited by ATF and their informants and antigunners all the time trying to pin charges against otherwise helpful folks so pardon my distrust. Now that that is out of the way...For a while there were Argentine 45s available "through the mail" if you have your C&R. I don't know who may have them for sale now. So why is it you want to go through the mail (UPS whatever) for this purchase? __________________ The blood runs free, the rain turns red, give me the wine, you keep the bread.

January 23, 2014, 08:46 PM	#15
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Ballester Molina I traded for one at a gun show and I love it. It was built in about 1942. It performs that same as my brand new RIA 1911, which performs the same as the Springfield 1911s I used in the Navy. Go to a gun show. You can handle all kinds of firearms so you can make an intelligent choice. You will find more variety available than most gun shops and you don't have to worry about the mail. You pays your money. They does the background check if it is needed. You gets the pistol you wants. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.