Stuck case in Hornady Deprime/Size Die--How DOES this work?

Mothdust · July 9, 2014, 06:42 PM

I'm hoping some of you guys can help a new guy understand how a deprime/size die works. Specifically, Hornady's version of the die.

I was setting up my LNL press, following directions from the Hornady literature, as well as several youtube videos about the setup of the deprime/size die. The die worked once; case was sized, primer was punched. After that, it would not deprime again; also, the ram felt like it was getting stuck on the shell case (or the die) when I tried to lower it.

I re-read the instructions, re-watched the videos, and I was stumped. I took the die out of the press and examined it. I put a shell in the bottom to see how far into the die it would go, suspecting that was the reason the depriming pin wasn't reaching the primer. Turns out, the shell was only fitting in part way--less than half way. I turned the die upside down, with the shell in it, and let gravity tap the shell in. That turned out to be the last mistake I made. The shell became stuck in the die, as you see it in the photo.

I did call Hornady about it, and they were kind enough to say that occasionally a die goes out with the wrong carbide insert; they want me to measure the die with calipers when I get the shell out (stuck case remover is in the mail).

I think they were being nice. I think I did something wrong, stemming from my vague understanding of how the die worked. I thought I understood it, but based on the problems I was having (spindle moving upwards when the shell on the shell went into the die, ram not moving easily downwards after contact with shell in die, shell not going in all the way), I think I'm in need of schooling of how the die works so I can know how to set it up properly.

A few questions, referencing the photo of the internals of the size/deprime die:

1) Should B be tightened down with a wrench, or finger tight?
2) Does B-2, via the threads in B-1, grab onto the spindle, A?
3) Is the beveled bottom of B-2 what does the sizing?
4) What is the purpose of C? Does it guide the deprime pin, D? Or just hold onto the pin?

I should have the stuck case out on Friday. Any help in understanding what happened here and how to avoid it next time is greatly appreciated.

jwrowland77 · July 9, 2014, 06:47 PM

C is actually what's sizes the neck of the case. After C, expander button slides through, the rest of the case slides up into the die body where the neck is squeezed down. As the button passes back out of the neck is makes sure it's sized to get the right right for a bullet.

jwrowland77 · July 9, 2014, 06:49 PM

The rest of the assembly between A-B is the spindle and the part that locks it down. I tighten barely with wrench.

D of course is decapping pin.

WOW, that's a really stuck case.

Mothdust · July 9, 2014, 07:25 PM

Pretending for a moment that the case wasn't actually stuck, is this about how far a case should go into the die body?

jwrowland77 · July 9, 2014, 07:26 PM

No. Because the shell holder wouldn't let it go that far in.

Mothdust · July 9, 2014, 09:07 PM

Ah. Yes. Of course.

higgite · July 9, 2014, 09:31 PM

That's a 9mm Luger case in the pic, so the die won't have a neck expander. But, to the point. Since you have the decapping assembly already out of the die, can't you stick a short piece of steel rod through the hole in the top of the die that the decapping assembly came out of and drive the case out with a hammer?

jwrowland77 · July 9, 2014, 09:33 PM

Dang. I didn't even notice. Dang phone don't zoom in real well. Don't hear, at least I haven't, that much about stuck pistol cases. That's odd...to me at least

higgite · July 9, 2014, 09:42 PM

I doubt that it's really stuck in the same way a bottle neck cartridge gets stuck. He just can't get a shell holder on it to get any leverage with the press to pull it out of the die. I suspect it will be easy to drive it out from the top. Hornady's stuck case remover is a drill and tap affair. My Forster remover kit for bottle neck cartridges includes a steel rod to drive the case out after you get the depriming assembly out of the way. I don't see why a similar approach won't work here since the decapper is already out of the way.

jwrowland77 · July 9, 2014, 09:50 PM

I'm a rifle shooter...my mind automatically goes that direction. Lol. Sorry for any confusion.

Prof Young · July 10, 2014, 12:14 AM

In terms of avoiding a stuck case, case lube is always good. I learned that lesson the hard way with 223 cases.

There are a lot of good case lubes out there. I've come to prefer the gel type that comes in a jar. Get a dab on your fingers and rub in on the shell. One dab will do a couple shells.

I don't clean the brass until after I've sized and deprived and that removes the lube off the cases.

However, I only use the lube on shouldered rifle cases. All my straight walled handgun caliber cases go in and out of the dies no sweat without lube.

Live well, be safe
Prof Young

DelawareDevil · July 10, 2014, 11:49 AM

I think the initial problem with the sizing die was that it wouldn't deprime a second case. The decapping rod probably got pushed up in the die because the collet wasn't tight enough.

Brian Pfleuger · July 10, 2014, 11:54 AM

I can't quite picture how a case that was simply dropped in by hand can possibly be that stuck. You can't get a flat screwdriver or edge of a butter knife in the extractor groove and pry it out?

wogpotter · July 10, 2014, 12:22 PM

Was there a funny noise when you tried to decap? (KIND OF A LOUD "zipppp" noise)
Seriously the "zip spindle" is kind of a light semi-threaded rod, if the nut you call "B" isn't tight enough the whole thing ratchets up instead of popping the primer out.

I'm guessing when you let gravity tap the case in you tapped it in past where its designed to go, jamming the case mouth in the narrower part of the die body. You might be able to remove it by doing the opposite.

Lube the inside of the case & die with slick oil or liquid case lube, leave it overnight so it penetrates well..
Find a rod of a suitable size to freely slip in through the open die top & into the case so it contacts the inside of the base. Maybe 1/4" or similar, even a longish 1/4" bolt should do. Just wedge it in with a piece of paper towel so it doesn't fall out.

Drop the die & shell 3~4" onto a hard (like cement, with no give or "bounce") surface with the bolt/rod facing down & the case facing up. The lube & shock might well pop that puppy out of there.

PA-Joe · July 10, 2014, 03:05 PM

The spindle Nut "B" was not tightened enough. You have to adjust the depriming pin by lossening the spindle nut and pushing it down until the tip of the depriming pin just passes the bench of the shell holder. You can make this adjustment by holding the shellholder against the bottom of the die then pushing the spindle down until the tip of the deprimer is just past the bench of the shellholder. Then really tighten the Spindle Nut. If the spindle is loose it will rise in the nut until it reaches a point where it will no longer deprime.

You also have to make certain that you have the correctly sized shellholder. It looks like the shellholder slipped off of the case rim indicating that it may be too large or you had a really soft case.

As noted, now that you have the spindle out you should be able to tap the case out from the top by using a brass or wood dowel.

wogpotter · July 10, 2014, 03:38 PM

I think the adjustment can also be done by turning the shaft. Its really just a shallow cut threaded rod. Unless you have the older "friction fit" type, which is smooth with no threads at all. Then yes, you really do need to torque that bad boy down.

Mothdust · July 10, 2014, 09:06 PM

I really appreciate the follow-up, everyone.

I got some Lyman case lube and sprayed it into the die and let it soak for a few hours. I tried a couple good raps with a hammer and punch on the inside of the die to knock the shell loose--no luck. Admittedly, I was being easy on it. I don't want to make things worse. I'll let it sit overnight, as suggested, and give it another shot tomorrow.

The good news, though, is that the shell will now rotate inside the die. So I think it'll come out easy enough when I got the stuck case remover.

I think you guys are right; I don't think nut 'B' was tight enough. I know it wasn't, actually, because I didn't use a wrench on it even a little bit. I also think I misunderstood the role of the zip spindle--possibly I had it confused with what I recall reading about the Lee decapping die. I thought the purpose of the zip spindle was to give it enough grip inside the body of the die to deprime, but not too much so that it would break free (move up in the die) if too much force was being applied to the pin by the ram (or the ram operator

) When I saw the spindle moving up in the die, I thought it was doing its job. I then started playing with the die's adjustment in the press and the rest is history. I'll post results when I get the die out, measure it with calipers, and report my findings to Hornady.

I did some more research on this particular Hornady die and found others had issues with the 9mm decap/size die. We'll see what Hornady has to say.

Thanks again, everyone.

Sport45 · July 11, 2014, 03:44 AM

Is the case rotating in the carbide ring, or is the carbide rotating in the die? I'd expect it to come out easy enough if the case is free enough to spin in the carbide.

Screw the die into your press upside down. Put a shellholder in the ram and insert an empty case. Find/cut a piece of brass or steel rod that's about 2" longer than the die body but small enough to fit through the top threads. Stand the rod up in the empty case and use the ram to push it up and (hopefully) eject the stuck case.

You may be able to use the decapping rod for this. Set a couple quarters on top of the ram if you don't have anything else to keep the decapping rod out of the hole in the middle of the ram.

Mothdust · July 11, 2014, 06:24 PM

Well, I got the stuck case remover today. No luck. The carbide/nitride ring is spinning around inside the die. Even though I was able to get a whole started in the shell case by virtue of drill RPMs, it did me no good--can't get the tap started.

I'll call Hornady on Monday to see what they say. Despite what I said earlier, I can't understand how me tapping the shell casing into the die the way I did would cause the damage it did.

Are dies really that fragile?

jwrowland77 · July 11, 2014, 06:29 PM

I'm still trying to figure out how you got a pistol case stuck in a Hornady die.

Mind=blown.

Mothdust · July 11, 2014, 07:09 PM

Because I'm new at this, I don't know if what I did innocently was totally destructive, or if this is a bad die.

I mean, dropping a die with a shell case onto a granite countertop from about 1.5 inches above the surface shouldn't have anywhere near the force imparted by a ram in a reloading press, right? The press didn't cause the stuck case when I tried it on several pieces of brass. But this little drop did?

July 10, 2014, 12:14 AM	#11
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,404	Case lube is important too! In terms of avoiding a stuck case, case lube is always good. I learned that lesson the hard way with 223 cases. There are a lot of good case lubes out there. I've come to prefer the gel type that comes in a jar. Get a dab on your fingers and rub in on the shell. One dab will do a couple shells. I don't clean the brass until after I've sized and deprived and that removes the lube off the cases. However, I only use the lube on shouldered rifle cases. All my straight walled handgun caliber cases go in and out of the dies no sweat without lube. Live well, be safe Prof Young

July 10, 2014, 11:49 AM	#12
DelawareDevil Junior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 9	Looks like a carbide sizing die I think the initial problem with the sizing die was that it wouldn't deprime a second case. The decapping rod probably got pushed up in the die because the collet wasn't tight enough.

July 10, 2014, 11:54 AM	#13
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I can't quite picture how a case that was simply dropped in by hand can possibly be that stuck. You can't get a flat screwdriver or edge of a butter knife in the extractor groove and pry it out? __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

July 10, 2014, 12:22 PM	#14
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Was there a funny noise when you tried to decap? (KIND OF A LOUD "zipppp" noise) Seriously the "zip spindle" is kind of a light semi-threaded rod, if the nut you call "B" isn't tight enough the whole thing ratchets up instead of popping the primer out. I'm guessing when you let gravity tap the case in you tapped it in past where its designed to go, jamming the case mouth in the narrower part of the die body. You might be able to remove it by doing the opposite. Lube the inside of the case & die with slick oil or liquid case lube, leave it overnight so it penetrates well.. Find a rod of a suitable size to freely slip in through the open die top & into the case so it contacts the inside of the base. Maybe 1/4" or similar, even a longish 1/4" bolt should do. Just wedge it in with a piece of paper towel so it doesn't fall out. Drop the die & shell 3~4" onto a hard (like cement, with no give or "bounce") surface with the bolt/rod facing down & the case facing up. The lube & shock might well pop that puppy out of there. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.” Last edited by wogpotter; July 10, 2014 at 12:30 PM.

July 10, 2014, 03:38 PM	#16
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	I think the adjustment can also be done by turning the shaft. Its really just a shallow cut threaded rod. Unless you have the older "friction fit" type, which is smooth with no threads at all. Then yes, you really do need to torque that bad boy down. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

July 9, 2014, 06:47 PM	#2
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	C is actually what's sizes the neck of the case. After C, expander button slides through, the rest of the case slides up into the die body where the neck is squeezed down. As the button passes back out of the neck is makes sure it's sized to get the right right for a bullet.

July 9, 2014, 06:49 PM	#3
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	The rest of the assembly between A-B is the spindle and the part that locks it down. I tighten barely with wrench. D of course is decapping pin. WOW, that's a really stuck case.

July 9, 2014, 07:25 PM	#4
Mothdust Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2013 Posts: 9	Pretending for a moment that the case wasn't actually stuck, is this about how far a case should go into the die body?

July 9, 2014, 07:26 PM	#5
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	No. Because the shell holder wouldn't let it go that far in.

July 9, 2014, 09:07 PM	#6
Mothdust Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2013 Posts: 9	Ah. Yes. Of course.

July 9, 2014, 09:31 PM	#7
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	That's a 9mm Luger case in the pic, so the die won't have a neck expander. But, to the point. Since you have the decapping assembly already out of the die, can't you stick a short piece of steel rod through the hole in the top of the die that the decapping assembly came out of and drive the case out with a hammer?

July 9, 2014, 09:33 PM	#8
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	Dang. I didn't even notice. Dang phone don't zoom in real well. Don't hear, at least I haven't, that much about stuck pistol cases. That's odd...to me at least

July 9, 2014, 09:42 PM	#9
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	I doubt that it's really stuck in the same way a bottle neck cartridge gets stuck. He just can't get a shell holder on it to get any leverage with the press to pull it out of the die. I suspect it will be easy to drive it out from the top. Hornady's stuck case remover is a drill and tap affair. My Forster remover kit for bottle neck cartridges includes a steel rod to drive the case out after you get the depriming assembly out of the way. I don't see why a similar approach won't work here since the decapper is already out of the way.

July 9, 2014, 09:50 PM	#10
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	I'm a rifle shooter...my mind automatically goes that direction. Lol. Sorry for any confusion.

July 10, 2014, 03:05 PM	#15
PA-Joe Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: NEPA Posts: 909	The spindle Nut "B" was not tightened enough. You have to adjust the depriming pin by lossening the spindle nut and pushing it down until the tip of the depriming pin just passes the bench of the shell holder. You can make this adjustment by holding the shellholder against the bottom of the die then pushing the spindle down until the tip of the deprimer is just past the bench of the shellholder. Then really tighten the Spindle Nut. If the spindle is loose it will rise in the nut until it reaches a point where it will no longer deprime. You also have to make certain that you have the correctly sized shellholder. It looks like the shellholder slipped off of the case rim indicating that it may be too large or you had a really soft case. As noted, now that you have the spindle out you should be able to tap the case out from the top by using a brass or wood dowel.

July 10, 2014, 09:06 PM	#17
Mothdust Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2013 Posts: 9	Thank You! I really appreciate the follow-up, everyone. I got some Lyman case lube and sprayed it into the die and let it soak for a few hours. I tried a couple good raps with a hammer and punch on the inside of the die to knock the shell loose--no luck. Admittedly, I was being easy on it. I don't want to make things worse. I'll let it sit overnight, as suggested, and give it another shot tomorrow. The good news, though, is that the shell will now rotate inside the die. So I think it'll come out easy enough when I got the stuck case remover. I think you guys are right; I don't think nut 'B' was tight enough. I know it wasn't, actually, because I didn't use a wrench on it even a little bit. I also think I misunderstood the role of the zip spindle--possibly I had it confused with what I recall reading about the Lee decapping die. I thought the purpose of the zip spindle was to give it enough grip inside the body of the die to deprime, but not too much so that it would break free (move up in the die) if too much force was being applied to the pin by the ram (or the ram operator ) When I saw the spindle moving up in the die, I thought it was doing its job. I then started playing with the die's adjustment in the press and the rest is history. I'll post results when I get the die out, measure it with calipers, and report my findings to Hornady. I did some more research on this particular Hornady die and found others had issues with the 9mm decap/size die. We'll see what Hornady has to say. Thanks again, everyone.

July 11, 2014, 03:44 AM	#18
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Is the case rotating in the carbide ring, or is the carbide rotating in the die? I'd expect it to come out easy enough if the case is free enough to spin in the carbide. Screw the die into your press upside down. Put a shellholder in the ram and insert an empty case. Find/cut a piece of brass or steel rod that's about 2" longer than the die body but small enough to fit through the top threads. Stand the rod up in the empty case and use the ram to push it up and (hopefully) eject the stuck case. You may be able to use the decapping rod for this. Set a couple quarters on top of the ram if you don't have anything else to keep the decapping rod out of the hole in the middle of the ram. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

July 11, 2014, 06:24 PM	#19
Mothdust Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2013 Posts: 9	No luck Well, I got the stuck case remover today. No luck. The carbide/nitride ring is spinning around inside the die. Even though I was able to get a whole started in the shell case by virtue of drill RPMs, it did me no good--can't get the tap started. I'll call Hornady on Monday to see what they say. Despite what I said earlier, I can't understand how me tapping the shell casing into the die the way I did would cause the damage it did. Are dies really that fragile?

July 11, 2014, 06:29 PM	#20
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	I'm still trying to figure out how you got a pistol case stuck in a Hornady die. Mind=blown.

July 11, 2014, 07:09 PM	#21
Mothdust Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2013 Posts: 9	Because I'm new at this, I don't know if what I did innocently was totally destructive, or if this is a bad die. I mean, dropping a die with a shell case onto a granite countertop from about 1.5 inches above the surface shouldn't have anywhere near the force imparted by a ram in a reloading press, right? The press didn't cause the stuck case when I tried it on several pieces of brass. But this little drop did?