44 mag primer question

[big26john]

I am new to 44 mag reloading. I got data from hodgdon. I was planning on using Hornady xtp 240 gr in place of the 240 gr NOS jhp will this change anything? Also I am planning on using H110 (23.5gr) which is a midrange charge.

I can't find any "remington 2 1/2" primers. Are there any substitute primers? Would a different primer change the pressure? Would the different bullet change the pressure?

[bigchicano]

My books say to use magnum primers when using H110. I loaded up some 300gr xtp's using mag primers and H110. I've been loading 240gr tmj's with unique and regular large pistol primers. I did some research and because of the different powders you have to use magnum primers, H110 being one of them. Your hodgon book should have a footnote somewhere on compressed or full load charges next to the powder charge. The bullet wont make a difference, they are both the same hollow point weight. I bought 3000 large magnum primers when I picked up the h110 (winchester primers). You can use them for mag and regular loads.

[DannyAbear]

Bullets
do make a difference, some are harder than others, some have more bearing surface, etc. H110 is made be Winchester, Winchester does not make mag large pistol primers, that ought to tell you something. Go check loads on www.wwpower.com

[jepp2]

I am new to 44 mag reloading.

For highest velocity loads in the 41 and 44 Mags, I find H110/W296 to be the best powder. But the range of min to max charges is very narrow. The load you reference is 24.0 starting, 25.0 max. And H110 is one of the powders that you need to not reduce below minimum.

My reason for saying all this, is unless you have shot a 44 with max loads before, you are going to see some reasonably heavy recoil. It certainly isn't a load I would want to start shooting a 44 with. I'm glad I started with more moderate loads to get accustomed to the recoil and keep my hold steady.

I have always used standard large pistol primers (Rem 2 1/2 in my case) but I have read enough to convince me to load future H110 loads with magnum primers. Any standard large pistol primer should be an acceptable alternative to the Rem 2 1/2 primer you cannot find. If you do find the magnum primers I would suggest starting with the 24.0 load. The pressure rise for a single grain of powder increase was 11,000 CUP, which is a LOT!

[oldpapps]

big26john,

Are these the components you have or are you putting together a loading set?

Point by point.

Bullets - Bullets varies in many ways. .429, .4295 and .430 jacketed bullets. Lead bullets are another matter. Bullet length increases resistance as the bullet moves in the barrel. Bullet consistencies, how hard or soft is the core metal. And the biggest or more visible, bullet weight.

Powders - Many types and requirements. Some do much better in constrained configurations (crimped in bullets to hurry the pressure build up). Others, just don't seem to care.

Primers - So far they are all 'Large'. If the .45 ACP can be switched, how long before the .44s. Standard primers are just that, standard. The 'magnum' primer is just a bit more potent/hotter/longer flame burn or a combination of these. Useful to ignite coated powders and in cold weather uses. Luckily, SAMMI has set requirement in size for our primers.

What you have listed will work.

Your questions: "Are there any substitute primers? Would a different primer change the pressure? Would the different bullet change the pressure?"

Any large pistol primer may be substituted. Yes, every primer maker's primers will have some differences. Yes, maybe, the same bullet weight but what are the other variables?

H110/296 is often listed as needing a 'Magnum' primer for proper ignition. Some swear to this and others just giggle and load regular primers. The only time that I found a demonstrably need for a 'Mag' primer was with a loading for a .357 Mag with 2400 powder, 140 grain half jacketed bullets for use during a very cold winter. I currently only use any 'Mag' primers in large belted rifle loads with very difficult to ignite powder. I have burned better than 8 pound of H110/296 in the last year and did not use 'Mag' primers.
If you are putting together a loading, look at other powders (2400 has a broad range).

As for your loading. 23.5 grains is the center point from Hodgdon. I find in an older book, 1990, Hornady data for there #4420, 240 gran JHP, a low end of 20.9 gr to upper end of 25.0 grs. I wouldn't load either end of this one.

Going with what you have listed is what you have. Start with the 'Starting' load from the source that you select. Test, load another sample and test again, and again. Remember, the listed 'Maximum' is not a challenge.

All ways error on the side of safety,

OSOK

[mxsailor803]

For practicing purposes, I don't use Magnum primers. For my hunting loads, I do. Granted, I shoot a ton of those through out the year lol.

[Death from Afar]

I shoot a lot of .44 magnum ( seemingly, with wussy Unique as a powder, see thread below) and oldpapps advice below is absolutely splendid. He is wise, that one.

[TimSr]

Winchester does not make mag large pistol primers, that ought to tell you something.

It tells you that most Winchester pistol powders benefit from the hotter primer. I thnk they are all ball type powders. Their primers are labeled "For Standard or Magnum Loads" but you will find they are more on the magnum side.

[TimSr]

I am new to 44 mag reloading. I got data from hodgdon. I was planning on using Hornady xtp 240 gr in place of the 240 gr NOS jhp will this change anything? Also I am planning on using H110 (23.5gr) which is a midrange charge.

I think your question is if you can go by the book data from from one JHP to work up a load on another of the same weight, and while their may be some small differnces, as long as the bulet diameter is the same (.430) you won't be far off, and the starting loads will be fine from one to another. Your final load might be different. I assume your developing a hunting load since those XTPs are awful expensive for paper punching. I've taken several deer with that bullet, and they are awesome. I think I ended up with 24.7gr in my 7 1/2" Redhawk. And, yes, use a magnum primer with H110 or W296 for best consistancy. Many say its not necessary, but Speer, Hodgen, Lyman and everybody else who compiles load data highly recommend it, and what would they know, right? When you are taking the 80 yard shot at a whitetail in 20 degree weather, I want confidence that the bullet will go exactly where it did on paper, and won't chance it to a 4 cent component that is the same price whether its standard or magnum.

[totaldla]

big26john - Your load is fine - 23.5gr of H110 or W296 behind a 240gr XTP will yield around 1200fps from a 4" barrel. You can use any large pistol primer, and many folks only use non-magnum primers. I personally favor the CCI350 Mag primer.

H110/296 is a slow powder for this application and as such it doesn't work well at all for reduced loads. Therefore I believe it is best to stay in the mid-point to max load range in Hodgdon's online data. You can't stuff enough of it into a 44mag case to blow up a pistol, but you can end up with powder zombies everywhere because you loaded it too light.

[big26john]

Thanks Everyone!
I also shoot for and load for 475 Linebaugh so i am not worried about recoil of the 44 mag. Most things i load for I almost always make my powder amount directly in between the min and max.

The only primers i have currently are Winchester LP.

Would "Winchester LP" primers work? (leaves me with 240gr Hornady XTP, 23.5 gr H110 powder, Winchester LP primer and I will be using a "middle of the road" roll crimp)...

[TimSr]

Would "Winchester LP" primers work? (leaves me with 240gr Hornady XTP, 23.5 gr H110 powder, Winchester LP primer and I will be using a "middle of the road" roll crimp)...

Winchester says on the front "For Standard or Magnum" so its hard for anyone to argue against it.

Its hard to describe how heavy a crimp is, but when you fire a round or two, pop out the unfired rounds and make sure the bullets are not jumping out of the case. I had that problem in my early days of loading 44 Mag with jacketed bullets creeping out, and use a fairly heavy crimp on them. The XTP has a nice crimp groove for your benefit.

[buck460XVR]

The loads for Nosler and XTPs are basically the same in their respective manuals. I load them both the same(23-23.5 gr H110/W296) and they both shoot damn near to the same POA. I prefer the Nosler JSPs for deer.

[totaldla]

big26john - My Chronograph say CCI350 and WLP are the same when compared to a "standard" primer (Wolf LP). My point is that I get exact same results with CCI350 and WLP. Only thing to note is that WLP cup is softer and I did have a couple crack on me in 44 mag. But that was only once and I use a lot of WLPs.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

I much prefer IMR 4227 or Win-296 for my 44. Both powder are easier to ignite than H-110 for one reason as is Accurate Arm's #7. I never have used much Hodgdon on my bench other than their shotgun powders. Just got too use to using Standard primers verses the mag ones in my revolvers. I guess its a matter of preference big26john.

The only primers i have currently are Winchester LP.

Bigchicano is spot on with his comment. I fully agree.

As I recall Winchester did once many years ago claim their LP primers were equal to some others that claimed to be Mag status. That claim negated the necessity of having to make a new line of primers. (Good business sense no doubt.)

S/S

[Rifleman1776]

I have loaded boatloads of H110 in my .44 mag. as well as other powders and loads. I have never used a magnum primer and my loads are just fine. Tens of thousands of rounds never a misfire.

[Death from Afar]

Slightly off topic, unique does need a magnum primer...about one in fifty do not go bang.

[rclark]

Unique does need a magnum primer

No it does not. A standard primer is all Unique needs. Since reloading from around 1980, a standard primer has worked for me in .357, .44Mag, .44Spec, .45 Colt, .45 ACP.....

[edited]Oh, I have tested with Magnum primer, and fps went up about 25fps and ES went up a bit ... not enough to matter. I ran this test after the last primer crunch, to assure my self I could use either primer if necessary (prefer the standard).

[Death from Afar]

Oh yes it does! Etc.

[WESHOOT2]

Unique does not require a Magnum primer for successful ignition, even under adverse temperature conditions.

Tested in 38 Special through 45 Colt.


Perhaps the ignition failure mentioned was due to the launch platform(?).

[floydster]

Well, I have used a lot of Unique in my 44 mag. never used a Mag primer, never any probs--I guess I'm lucky

[buck460XVR]

I much prefer IMR 4227 or Win-296 for my 44. Both powder are easier to ignite than H-110 for one reason

Since H110/W296 are the exact same powder in different packaging, I'd really like to know that one reason. But I too like IMR4227 in .44 mag. Especially in my long piped revolvers and carbines.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

From what I've been told:
buck460XVR. There is a slight difference between H-110 and Win 296. 296 isn't coated with graphite. Primary reason to coat: By protecting the nitrates from humidity. Graphite coating offers a longer shelf life and a couple other reasons also associated with the process.

[WESHOOT2]

Since H110/W296 are the exact same powder in different packaging

Prehaps today that is true, but with past lots I 'suspect' that was NOT always true.

[Mike / Tx]

As for the H-110 / W-296 being the same, today yes, 15 or so years ago, not even close in side by side comparrison. The older 296 I have is somewhat grey/greenish looking and is small chunks, verses the same era H-110, being very small round ball and very black, (graphite I suppose).

That said the diffeences between the "LOTS" I have would be surely a contributer if nothing else, but the H-10 was always a bit more exciting when on the top end than the 296 was.

That said either one of them will still scald a bullet out the muzzle of any of my magnums using the top end data.

As for the priming issues, I used Win WLP in most of my standard loads anyway up until the last few years where I have been using up some Wolf SM and LP and SR in my 454. All of these have been of the standard flavor and nothing has gone "poof" that should have gone "BANG". With my 454 I am using a decent enough load to get mid 1500's from the Lee C452-300RF which I cast myself. I haven't used a magnum primer in it yet.

As for Uinque, and needing a mag primer, if it does then I have been loading a LOT of stuff for a LONG time using the wrong primers, and never had an issue with any of it. Then again most all of it had powder charges of 12grs or less as well, so maybe I'm just not pouring enough in to get up to the magnum level. There again, I haven't noted many loads using it above that weight anyhow.