Iver Johnson revolver - Page 2

peggysue · August 13, 2014, 05:47 AM

nice collection Magnum. I like your display. I have a bunch too including H&Rs. They are fun to collect. I love break tops.

Magnum Wheel Man · August 13, 2014, 05:54 AM

GYVEL... that's a good suggestion, & I do have some on my larger bore guns, but the ID of some of the tubes doesn't leave much room for steel rod on some of the smaller bores... the pocket guns don't have much leverage or weight, but throw a full sized revolver, with a 6 - 7.5" barrel, & I need to have enough steel inside to support the gun properly...

for example... my new 25 ACP 8 shot Blackhawk, the rod has to be smaller than 1/4" & then put a coating over it that will fit in the .251" barrel, & needs to be stiff enough to hold up a 6" barrel Blackhawk...

I've had good luck with the heat shrink tube, as it's pretty abrasion resistant, for as thin as it is & pretty chemical resistant...

Magnum Wheel Man · August 13, 2014, 06:05 AM

PEGGYSUE... they are pretty fun to shoot, low noise & recoil... ( if these guns are going to be shot a lot, the insides should be lubricated well every couple times out... this helps make the trigger pull a bit easier to handle, & reduces wear... often the internals were not hardened the same as modern guns, & it could be said they were never designed to shoot a lot )... I handload for both 32 & 38 S&W... the top breaks are some of MRS. favorite to shoot... well at least I until I got her shooting CAS with mild 38 Special loads... now her pair of Rugers is all she ever wants to shoot

gyvel · August 14, 2014, 02:31 PM

I just use big honking nails (about 1/4", not sure what "penny" they are).

I don't have a dedicated vertical rack like you, but I hammer the nails into the shelves holding my rifles, then slit the vacuum tubing and slip it over the nail. I actually let the guns hang by their trigger guards.

Over the years, I've accumulated a boatload of parts for various top break revolvers (or "gaslights" as I call them, since many of them are from the "gaslight era"), and I get a kick out of the challenge of making one work again.

Clark · August 14, 2014, 11:16 PM

This is my grandfather's Iver Johnson break top from the Alaskan Gold Rush.
I am told that the vintage of his black powder ammo box would be after he returned from Alaska to Seattle.

gyvel · August 14, 2014, 11:19 PM

Clark, that is really cool! All the more so since the Gold Rush days were not noted for being particularly civilized, and your grandfather felt sufficiently armed with the .32. My, how times have changed!

That is one top break with a neat provenance.

Clark · August 15, 2014, 10:28 AM

Wait, wait, grandpa had a thirty eight.

Nearly the same size and weight, as my P380.

gyvel · August 15, 2014, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Wait, wait, grandpa had a thirty eight.

Ah yes. A second look tells me that it is a large frame IJ, not a small frame .32. Also, if I had paid closer attention to the box of cartridges, I would have seen that they are .38 S&Ws.

Also, it looks like it was made for smokeless powder since the owl heads are in proper perspective, but only the serial number will tell for sure.

gwpercle · August 15, 2014, 05:43 PM

My mother gave me her fathers top break , 38 S&W double action 4th model and a full box of 38 S&W ammo. Couldn't wait to shoot it. It has a long five inch barrel so I had high hopes of it being an accurate shooter...But,
I found the grips way too small, the sights were miniscule , my old eyes just couldn't see them, the top break latch was hard to open and shells would fly everywhere . I shot it 3 times and couldn't tell if I was even coming close to the target. My daughter shot it twice and handed it back, that was enough for her. I shot it some more but didn't hit squat. How anyone hit things with these sights is beyond me. You wouldn't think recoil with a puny 38 S&W round would be so stout, but the small frame and tiny grip doesn't help.
A good K frame in 38 special with some hand filling grips and visible sights is much to be preferred. Swing out cylinders have the top break latch beat six ways to Sunday.
I still got half a box of ammo if I care to do it again. But my enthusiasm has waned considerably.
If used for self defense, get real close.
Gary

WE0H · August 16, 2014, 11:42 AM

I will post pictures later this weekend; I have the optional one piece wood target grips for my IJ 38

Mike

Driftwood Johnson · August 16, 2014, 03:28 PM

Howdy

Around the turn of the Century Iver Johnson completely redesigned their revolver line for the new Smokeless Powder.

It is very easy to tell a 'modern' IJ from a Black Powder only IJ.

This is a Black Powder only Iver Johnson. First off notice that the little owl is facing forward. Next, notice the shape of the locking slots on the cylinder. Notice that there is only one straight edge to the slots. The bolt only bears against one side of the slot, the hand is pushing the cylinder in place when the trigger is pulled to keep the cylinder from rotating backwards. Lastly, if you pull off the grips you will see that the hammer spring is a flat leaf spring.

This is one of the later versions of the Iver Johnson. First, notice the little owl is facing backwards. Second, notice the shape of the cylinder locking slots. They have a hard edge both top and bottom, the bolt keeps the cylinder in battery, the hand does not enter into it. Third, if you remove the grips, the main spring is a coil spring, not a leaf spring.

Iver Johnson used better steel for the Smokeless guns. I don't care what the guy said at Cabellas, I would NEVER fire an old Black Powder IJ with modern Smokeless ammo. There is more than just peak pressure involved here, the pressure curve of Black Powder is much slower than modern Smokeless, and will shock the old steel less.

From what I can see of the Original Poster's photos, he has a Black Powder gun, by the shape of the cylinder locking slots.

Clark · August 16, 2014, 04:40 PM

I have overloaded Iver Johnson break tops again and again to see what happens.

Normally when I overload work up a Colt, Smith, etc. revolver.... the cylinder splits, and half the time the top strap breaks.

I never get that far with an Iver Johnson break top.
The hole in the latch piece of sheet metal stretches from a round hole for the latch pin into an egg shape and the action becomes loose.

Because of the thickness of the chamber walls and the smallness of the inside diameter, it would be very hard to split a cylinder of a 32sw or 38sw Iver Johnson. But just one round of factory 32 acp in an old IJ 32sw can result is a sloppy action.

Bruce A. Frank · February 11, 2015, 03:28 PM

I am glad to see more recent comments on this subject. That information on the non-ramped cylinder locking slots and coil hammer spring says my 32 is not a black power model. But, other info says that the smokeless powder models serial numbers had an N prefix.

My serial number is 98XXX, 5 digits with no letter prefix, on the left side of the grip frame under the grips. The serial number also is stamped on the bottom outside of the trigger guard. Owl on the grips looks rearward. How do I relate this info to date of manufacture.

I ask because in my state handguns manufactured before 1898 are antiques not regulated by state gun laws. Pistols newer than that are treated as all other modern firearms.

Bishop Creek · February 14, 2015, 07:44 PM

Bruce A. Frank to find out what year your Iver Johnson was made, click on the link and go to "Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works" on the menu on the right

http://www.american-firearms.com/ame...ers/START.html

Based on the serial number with no letter before it, sounds like yours is 1895 or older like mine is.

August 13, 2014, 05:54 AM	#27
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	GYVEL... that's a good suggestion, & I do have some on my larger bore guns, but the ID of some of the tubes doesn't leave much room for steel rod on some of the smaller bores... the pocket guns don't have much leverage or weight, but throw a full sized revolver, with a 6 - 7.5" barrel, & I need to have enough steel inside to support the gun properly... for example... my new 25 ACP 8 shot Blackhawk, the rod has to be smaller than 1/4" & then put a coating over it that will fit in the .251" barrel, & needs to be stiff enough to hold up a 6" barrel Blackhawk... I've had good luck with the heat shrink tube, as it's pretty abrasion resistant, for as thin as it is & pretty chemical resistant... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

August 13, 2014, 06:05 AM	#28
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	PEGGYSUE... they are pretty fun to shoot, low noise & recoil... ( if these guns are going to be shot a lot, the insides should be lubricated well every couple times out... this helps make the trigger pull a bit easier to handle, & reduces wear... often the internals were not hardened the same as modern guns, & it could be said they were never designed to shoot a lot )... I handload for both 32 & 38 S&W... the top breaks are some of MRS. favorite to shoot... well at least I until I got her shooting CAS with mild 38 Special loads... now her pair of Rugers is all she ever wants to shoot __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

August 14, 2014, 02:31 PM	#29
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	I just use big honking nails (about 1/4", not sure what "penny" they are). I don't have a dedicated vertical rack like you, but I hammer the nails into the shelves holding my rifles, then slit the vacuum tubing and slip it over the nail. I actually let the guns hang by their trigger guards. Over the years, I've accumulated a boatload of parts for various top break revolvers (or "gaslights" as I call them, since many of them are from the "gaslight era"), and I get a kick out of the challenge of making one work again. __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE

August 14, 2014, 11:16 PM	#30
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	This is my grandfather's Iver Johnson break top from the Alaskan Gold Rush. I am told that the vintage of his black powder ammo box would be after he returned from Alaska to Seattle. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

August 14, 2014, 11:19 PM	#31
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Clark, that is really cool! All the more so since the Gold Rush days were not noted for being particularly civilized, and your grandfather felt sufficiently armed with the .32. My, how times have changed! That is one top break with a neat provenance. __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE

August 13, 2014, 05:47 AM	#26
peggysue Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2014 Posts: 1,835	nice collection Magnum. I like your display. I have a bunch too including H&Rs. They are fun to collect. I love break tops.

August 15, 2014, 10:28 AM	#32
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	Wait, wait, grandpa had a thirty eight. Nearly the same size and weight, as my P380. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

August 15, 2014, 05:43 PM	#34
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	My mother gave me her fathers top break , 38 S&W double action 4th model and a full box of 38 S&W ammo. Couldn't wait to shoot it. It has a long five inch barrel so I had high hopes of it being an accurate shooter...But, I found the grips way too small, the sights were miniscule , my old eyes just couldn't see them, the top break latch was hard to open and shells would fly everywhere . I shot it 3 times and couldn't tell if I was even coming close to the target. My daughter shot it twice and handed it back, that was enough for her. I shot it some more but didn't hit squat. How anyone hit things with these sights is beyond me. You wouldn't think recoil with a puny 38 S&W round would be so stout, but the small frame and tiny grip doesn't help. A good K frame in 38 special with some hand filling grips and visible sights is much to be preferred. Swing out cylinders have the top break latch beat six ways to Sunday. I still got half a box of ammo if I care to do it again. But my enthusiasm has waned considerably. If used for self defense, get real close. Gary

August 16, 2014, 11:42 AM	#35
WE0H Member Join Date: May 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 71	I will post pictures later this weekend; I have the optional one piece wood target grips for my IJ 38 Mike

August 16, 2014, 03:28 PM	#36
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Around the turn of the Century Iver Johnson completely redesigned their revolver line for the new Smokeless Powder. It is very easy to tell a 'modern' IJ from a Black Powder only IJ. This is a Black Powder only Iver Johnson. First off notice that the little owl is facing forward. Next, notice the shape of the locking slots on the cylinder. Notice that there is only one straight edge to the slots. The bolt only bears against one side of the slot, the hand is pushing the cylinder in place when the trigger is pulled to keep the cylinder from rotating backwards. Lastly, if you pull off the grips you will see that the hammer spring is a flat leaf spring. This is one of the later versions of the Iver Johnson. First, notice the little owl is facing backwards. Second, notice the shape of the cylinder locking slots. They have a hard edge both top and bottom, the bolt keeps the cylinder in battery, the hand does not enter into it. Third, if you remove the grips, the main spring is a coil spring, not a leaf spring. Iver Johnson used better steel for the Smokeless guns. I don't care what the guy said at Cabellas, I would NEVER fire an old Black Powder IJ with modern Smokeless ammo. There is more than just peak pressure involved here, the pressure curve of Black Powder is much slower than modern Smokeless, and will shock the old steel less. From what I can see of the Original Poster's photos, he has a Black Powder gun, by the shape of the cylinder locking slots.

August 16, 2014, 04:40 PM	#37
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I have overloaded Iver Johnson break tops again and again to see what happens. Normally when I overload work up a Colt, Smith, etc. revolver.... the cylinder splits, and half the time the top strap breaks. I never get that far with an Iver Johnson break top. The hole in the latch piece of sheet metal stretches from a round hole for the latch pin into an egg shape and the action becomes loose. Because of the thickness of the chamber walls and the smallness of the inside diameter, it would be very hard to split a cylinder of a 32sw or 38sw Iver Johnson. But just one round of factory 32 acp in an old IJ 32sw can result is a sloppy action. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

February 11, 2015, 03:28 PM	#38
Bruce A. Frank Junior Member Join Date: September 6, 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 7	I am glad to see more recent comments on this subject. That information on the non-ramped cylinder locking slots and coil hammer spring says my 32 is not a black power model. But, other info says that the smokeless powder models serial numbers had an N prefix. My serial number is 98XXX, 5 digits with no letter prefix, on the left side of the grip frame under the grips. The serial number also is stamped on the bottom outside of the trigger guard. Owl on the grips looks rearward. How do I relate this info to date of manufacture. I ask because in my state handguns manufactured before 1898 are antiques not regulated by state gun laws. Pistols newer than that are treated as all other modern firearms.

February 14, 2015, 07:44 PM	#39
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	Bruce A. Frank to find out what year your Iver Johnson was made, click on the link and go to "Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works" on the menu on the right http://www.american-firearms.com/ame...ers/START.html Based on the serial number with no letter before it, sounds like yours is 1895 or older like mine is.