41 derringer

LRA · June 9, 2007, 10:58 PM

I would like to know when this derringer was manufactured:

41 derringer
Top barrel - REMINGTON ARMS – U.M.C. CO. ILION, N.Y.
Bottom barrel – 1 7 8

Thanks,

LA

BillCA · June 9, 2007, 11:53 PM

By the top barrel markings it is likely a Type 4 Remington Over and Under Derringer (Aka Double Derringer or Model 95).

Some 150,000 .41 derringers were produced between 1866 and 1934. The type 3 (identifed by the same markings without the dash and "U.M.C." designations) was produced from 1888-1911. Because yours contains the U.M.C. markings, it was probably produced between 1916 and 1920 when Remington was incorporated as "Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc".

The Blue book shows one of the Type 4 models, in 60% condition, valued at $1,000. The low survival rate for these guns makes them valuable. You should photograph this specimen and have it's condition appraised so you know its value.

Tom2 · June 10, 2007, 10:02 AM

Navy Arms had been marketing 41 rimfire ammo for those in the past. Old Western Scrounger or someone like that might have some left. The only thing you should check is for cracks in the pivot loops. That is fairly common, I think. Then again might not shoot it and keep the ammo to show with the gun. It is pretty low power ammo. I had one once but it had a hairline crack in one of the loops that the barrel pivot screw goes thru. The seller did not mention it to me. I got some ammo, but when I found the crack, I decided to trade it for something else without risking firing it. Neat little pistols and collectable.

James K · June 10, 2007, 10:11 AM

First, check VERY carefully for cracks in the top hinge. Sometimes even those that look perfect are actually cracked (I have one like that), and a cracked hinge reduces the value. Since those frames are cast iron, they can't easily be welded or soldered. They can be brazed, but any repair looks bad, and the value goes down fast.

NIB and without a crack, those guns go for $3000 or so. Ones in lesser condition, but still intact, can go for $1000-2000. In poor shape, but intact, around $500. Cracked, about $200-300 even if otherwise in good shape. (Gun show buyers beware; some sellers put fancy prices even on guns with cracked hinges. You can pay $1200 for one like that, but you will never get the money out of it.)

Needless to say, I strongly recommend NOT firing one of those old timers; folks who say they must shoot every gun they own should not own a Remington double derringer. Even an intact one can crack on the next shot; an already cracked gun can break all the way through the hinge.

(There is a theory that the cracking was not due to firing, but to "flipping" the barrels up and back. Be that as it may, use care in handling the old guns, and I still recommend against firing.)

Jim

LRA · June 10, 2007, 05:13 PM

Thanks,

I got this derringer from my father. It belonged to the family doctor who left it to my grandfather. I do have two shells for it, but have never tried to fire it (keep them for display), and do not intend on firing it (no visible cracks, but it is a keepsake and collector item vice usable weapon).

It probably is in the 60%+ condition. I was more curious about the value than any intent to sell it.

Prairidog · June 16, 2007, 09:37 PM

I need info on High Standard Double Nine serial#1933267 what year
model#w-104
Can i have this gun a 22 nine shot shipped to my ffl from a private party in Ca.
we are both in Ca. If this gun is 50 years old,no problem,but being told i can;t buy it???????

June 9, 2007, 11:53 PM	#2
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	By the top barrel markings it is likely a Type 4 Remington Over and Under Derringer (Aka Double Derringer or Model 95). Some 150,000 .41 derringers were produced between 1866 and 1934. The type 3 (identifed by the same markings without the dash and "U.M.C." designations) was produced from 1888-1911. Because yours contains the U.M.C. markings, it was probably produced between 1916 and 1920 when Remington was incorporated as "Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc". The Blue book shows one of the Type 4 models, in 60% condition, valued at $1,000. The low survival rate for these guns makes them valuable. You should photograph this specimen and have it's condition appraised so you know its value. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

June 10, 2007, 05:13 PM	#5
LRA Junior Member Join Date: June 9, 2007 Location: Alexandria, Virginia Posts: 5	41 derringer - thanks Thanks, I got this derringer from my father. It belonged to the family doctor who left it to my grandfather. I do have two shells for it, but have never tried to fire it (keep them for display), and do not intend on firing it (no visible cracks, but it is a keepsake and collector item vice usable weapon). It probably is in the 60%+ condition. I was more curious about the value than any intent to sell it.

June 16, 2007, 09:37 PM	#6
Prairidog Junior Member Join Date: September 12, 2006 Posts: 4	can't post new topic I need info on High Standard Double Nine serial#1933267 what year model#w-104 Can i have this gun a 22 nine shot shipped to my ffl from a private party in Ca. we are both in Ca. If this gun is 50 years old,no problem,but being told i can;t buy it???????

June 9, 2007, 10:58 PM	#1
LRA Junior Member Join Date: June 9, 2007 Location: Alexandria, Virginia Posts: 5	41 derringer I would like to know when this derringer was manufactured: 41 derringer Top barrel - REMINGTON ARMS – U.M.C. CO. ILION, N.Y. Bottom barrel – 1 7 8 Thanks, LA

June 10, 2007, 10:02 AM	#3
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Navy Arms had been marketing 41 rimfire ammo for those in the past. Old Western Scrounger or someone like that might have some left. The only thing you should check is for cracks in the pivot loops. That is fairly common, I think. Then again might not shoot it and keep the ammo to show with the gun. It is pretty low power ammo. I had one once but it had a hairline crack in one of the loops that the barrel pivot screw goes thru. The seller did not mention it to me. I got some ammo, but when I found the crack, I decided to trade it for something else without risking firing it. Neat little pistols and collectable.

June 10, 2007, 10:11 AM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	First, check VERY carefully for cracks in the top hinge. Sometimes even those that look perfect are actually cracked (I have one like that), and a cracked hinge reduces the value. Since those frames are cast iron, they can't easily be welded or soldered. They can be brazed, but any repair looks bad, and the value goes down fast. NIB and without a crack, those guns go for $3000 or so. Ones in lesser condition, but still intact, can go for $1000-2000. In poor shape, but intact, around $500. Cracked, about $200-300 even if otherwise in good shape. (Gun show buyers beware; some sellers put fancy prices even on guns with cracked hinges. You can pay $1200 for one like that, but you will never get the money out of it.) Needless to say, I strongly recommend NOT firing one of those old timers; folks who say they must shoot every gun they own should not own a Remington double derringer. Even an intact one can crack on the next shot; an already cracked gun can break all the way through the hinge. (There is a theory that the cracking was not due to firing, but to "flipping" the barrels up and back. Be that as it may, use care in handling the old guns, and I still recommend against firing.) Jim