Help with 200 gr swc 45acp

drdirk · April 3, 2005, 07:59 PM

I am new to reloading and have had good luck with 230 gr round nose 45acp. Just picked up a box of West Coast Bullets 200 gr swc plated bullets and needs some advice: I am using 5gr of Win 231 and an overall lenght of 1.2. Unfortunatelly, more than half of all my rounds jam. Tried two guns, 1911 and Sig 220 with same result. Any advice on the COL and crimp? Anybody been happy with a load?
Any advice to a new guy? Thanks in advance!

steveno · April 3, 2005, 08:10 PM

set the OAL by having the sharp edge of the swc about .010 - .030 above the case mouth

Jim Watson · April 3, 2005, 09:36 PM

And don't expect your P220 to run with SWCs. Some will, some won't, but those that won't, really won't and it is a waste of time and ammo to keep fooling with it. I had one such and have seen several others.

A good 1911 should shoot a reasonable copy of the H&G No 68 SWC but as with the guns themselves, there are a lot of knockoffs made by people who think they know better than the originator. I don't know if West Coast is, but I do know Ranier is one hard to manage knockoff.

Edward429451 · April 3, 2005, 09:52 PM

You might be able to get em to feed by playing with the OAL and/or crimp, or maybe not.

Didn't you try a few in your gun manually before making up a bunch? Or a Dillon case gauge?

Taper crimp dimensions should be .470 at the case mouth and no less. I had to seat some lead bullets to 1.190 to get them to work in a particular pistol once.Switching bullet types for that gun made life a lot easier though, so I could use the same load in both my 45's.

Be sure of all of your cartridge dimensions first before switching slugs. It may be as you say too much/little crimp. All dimensions are in the loading manual.

Is the 1911 milspec? It might just need throated.

WESHOOT2 · April 4, 2005, 05:13 AM

Highly recommend testing OAL of: start at 1.260" and work shorter by .005"; although I have had good results at 1.257".

Suggest NO SHORTER THAN 1.240"; then change bullet.

drdirk · April 4, 2005, 08:41 AM

thanks for the replys. You guys confirmed also that this SWC stuff is not as easy as RN. I will try to make a few longer ones as suggested. They did work a little better in the 1911 then the Sig 220. I just ordered a case guage as well. I was testing most of them in my 1911 barrel and they seemed fine. Looks like RN is a lot easier and maybe I should stick with that.

auto45 · April 4, 2005, 01:58 PM

I've used several thousand West Coast 200 gr. SWC and they worked well, for me, at 1.25".

drdirk · April 4, 2005, 07:17 PM

Thousands at 1.25! Impressive. This brings up two more questions I have:
1. How close can you guys get the lenght of your loads from round to round? Let's say I start with 1.25. Then I measure the next few and I will get anywhere from 1.245 to 1.253 or about that. What is the range to be expected. I am using a RCBS single stage press and dies.
2. I measured my WC bullets and the seem to be .452. When I crimp them to a size that will feed, they always seem to get that little bulge. Is this ok? The box does not specify a size.
Just did a few more and will take them to the range tomorrow
Thanks!

CaptainRazor · April 4, 2005, 07:49 PM

Usually, the length is right on the money for me, not more than .001" either way if they are different.

I had some recent issues with the crimp though, so I timmed all my cases just so I didn't have to fiddle with the crimp die every other round.

Did I mention I hate trimming cases?

WESHOOT2 · April 5, 2005, 05:21 AM

If they fire with 100% reliability then it doesn't matter how much they vary; your gun will teach you what it finds acceptable.

I try to hold OAL at +/-.005" for 'just-shootin' ammo; 'social' ammo gets held to +/-.002" maximum (see, even I can learn).

Sometimes I'll run two seat dies back-to-back and crimp later.

ulflyer · April 5, 2005, 06:23 AM

Drdirk, if you're just paper punching and want a nice hole, try some 225 gr BBTFN (bevel base tapered flat nose; mine are lead, don't know if they make jacketed). I load mine in a Dillon 550 with 3.8 gr Bullseye (got some 231 just haven't tried it yet) at 1.24 OAL and it works great in four 1911's and a Smith 457. Never any probs with feeding. One of the 1911's is an old Rem-Rand and it handles it fine. Also, I find the bevel base makes it easier to set the bullet on the case straight.

3.8 Bulleye is a mild load, but cycles all the above auto's, and accuracy seems good enuf at 20 yards.

drdirk · April 10, 2005, 02:56 PM

Thanks for all the input. I reworked some loads, 200g SWC from West Coast and used 1.25. Worked well. Didn't do enough of them to check accuracy but seem like a nice, mild shooting load. As far as the crimp is concerned, I am now using a Lee Factory Crimp and it made a HUGE difference in the quality and uniformity of the crimp with the SWC. With the RN it is about the same, but I highly recomment for the SWC.
... maybe the next stage will be a progessive, will check the board for suggestions....

April 3, 2005, 07:59 PM	#1
drdirk Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2004 Location: houston, tx Posts: 179	Help with 200 gr swc 45acp I am new to reloading and have had good luck with 230 gr round nose 45acp. Just picked up a box of West Coast Bullets 200 gr swc plated bullets and needs some advice: I am using 5gr of Win 231 and an overall lenght of 1.2. Unfortunatelly, more than half of all my rounds jam. Tried two guns, 1911 and Sig 220 with same result. Any advice on the COL and crimp? Anybody been happy with a load? Any advice to a new guy? Thanks in advance!

April 4, 2005, 05:13 AM	#5
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	8 of each Highly recommend testing OAL of: start at 1.260" and work shorter by .005"; although I have had good results at 1.257". Suggest NO SHORTER THAN 1.240"; then change bullet. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

April 4, 2005, 08:41 AM	#6
drdirk Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2004 Location: houston, tx Posts: 179	looks like my bullets were a little short thanks for the replys. You guys confirmed also that this SWC stuff is not as easy as RN. I will try to make a few longer ones as suggested. They did work a little better in the 1911 then the Sig 220. I just ordered a case guage as well. I was testing most of them in my 1911 barrel and they seemed fine. Looks like RN is a lot easier and maybe I should stick with that.

April 4, 2005, 07:17 PM	#8
drdirk Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2004 Location: houston, tx Posts: 179	what size West Coasts bullets/ what lenght variations do you get? Thousands at 1.25! Impressive. This brings up two more questions I have: 1. How close can you guys get the lenght of your loads from round to round? Let's say I start with 1.25. Then I measure the next few and I will get anywhere from 1.245 to 1.253 or about that. What is the range to be expected. I am using a RCBS single stage press and dies. 2. I measured my WC bullets and the seem to be .452. When I crimp them to a size that will feed, they always seem to get that little bulge. Is this ok? The box does not specify a size. Just did a few more and will take them to the range tomorrow Thanks!

April 5, 2005, 05:21 AM	#10
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	reality If they fire with 100% reliability then it doesn't matter how much they vary; your gun will teach you what it finds acceptable. I try to hold OAL at +/-.005" for 'just-shootin' ammo; 'social' ammo gets held to +/-.002" maximum (see, even I can learn). Sometimes I'll run two seat dies back-to-back and crimp later. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

April 3, 2005, 08:10 PM	#2
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	set the OAL by having the sharp edge of the swc about .010 - .030 above the case mouth

April 3, 2005, 09:36 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	And don't expect your P220 to run with SWCs. Some will, some won't, but those that won't, really won't and it is a waste of time and ammo to keep fooling with it. I had one such and have seen several others. A good 1911 should shoot a reasonable copy of the H&G No 68 SWC but as with the guns themselves, there are a lot of knockoffs made by people who think they know better than the originator. I don't know if West Coast is, but I do know Ranier is one hard to manage knockoff.

April 3, 2005, 09:52 PM	#4
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	You might be able to get em to feed by playing with the OAL and/or crimp, or maybe not. Didn't you try a few in your gun manually before making up a bunch? Or a Dillon case gauge? Taper crimp dimensions should be .470 at the case mouth and no less. I had to seat some lead bullets to 1.190 to get them to work in a particular pistol once.Switching bullet types for that gun made life a lot easier though, so I could use the same load in both my 45's. Be sure of all of your cartridge dimensions first before switching slugs. It may be as you say too much/little crimp. All dimensions are in the loading manual. Is the 1911 milspec? It might just need throated.

April 4, 2005, 01:58 PM	#7
auto45 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2002 Posts: 427	I've used several thousand West Coast 200 gr. SWC and they worked well, for me, at 1.25".

April 4, 2005, 07:49 PM	#9
CaptainRazor Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2005 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 302	Usually, the length is right on the money for me, not more than .001" either way if they are different. I had some recent issues with the crimp though, so I timmed all my cases just so I didn't have to fiddle with the crimp die every other round. Did I mention I hate trimming cases?

April 5, 2005, 06:23 AM	#11
ulflyer Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2004 Posts: 154	Drdirk, if you're just paper punching and want a nice hole, try some 225 gr BBTFN (bevel base tapered flat nose; mine are lead, don't know if they make jacketed). I load mine in a Dillon 550 with 3.8 gr Bullseye (got some 231 just haven't tried it yet) at 1.24 OAL and it works great in four 1911's and a Smith 457. Never any probs with feeding. One of the 1911's is an old Rem-Rand and it handles it fine. Also, I find the bevel base makes it easier to set the bullet on the case straight. 3.8 Bulleye is a mild load, but cycles all the above auto's, and accuracy seems good enuf at 20 yards.

April 10, 2005, 02:56 PM	#12
drdirk Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2004 Location: houston, tx Posts: 179	worked! Thanks for all the input. I reworked some loads, 200g SWC from West Coast and used 1.25. Worked well. Didn't do enough of them to check accuracy but seem like a nice, mild shooting load. As far as the crimp is concerned, I am now using a Lee Factory Crimp and it made a HUGE difference in the quality and uniformity of the crimp with the SWC. With the RN it is about the same, but I highly recomment for the SWC. ... maybe the next stage will be a progessive, will check the board for suggestions....