What Has Changed?

lizziedog1 · October 3, 2009, 07:07 PM

Our fathers and grandfathers would grab whatever rifle they owned to go deer hunting. Some took their .30-06, some took their .30-30. their .300 savage, even .25-35's. No one balked at them for having under powered cartridges. They went and shot and killed and brought home a shkinny whitetail for supper.

Were the deer more thin skinned back then? Do deer also use steroids? Was the ammo loaded hotter then today? Did the last generations have some magical ability to kill deer with bullets not powered by cartridges that require several adjectives in their names?

Really, seriously, what has changed with deer hunting?

roy reali · October 3, 2009, 07:21 PM

Back then, they did not ask anyone else if their gun was adequate. They didn't read articles stating that their cartridge of choice was going to bouce off the deer. They just went and did it.

Bella · October 3, 2009, 07:28 PM

A wife of a good friend is one of the best hunters I've ever met. She fills her tags each and every year. She uses an old Winchester lever action .30-30. It even has a side mounted scope., This rig is so beat up , so ugly, it would scare other guns out of their rack.

Her husband has offerd to buy her a new rifle/scope combination. She gives him a look that would be perfect for Halloween. I guess, some people are old-fashoined.

ZeroJunk · October 3, 2009, 07:45 PM

I can fill my freezer with a 22 rimfire.
But, I might see a B&C 300 yards out quartering away.
No doubt there is a lot of overkill, but a 270 or 30/06 is a more reliable killer than say a 30/30

However if a man wants to learn to shoot a big magnum and can make a good shot the deer is none the worse off for it.

TJMiller · October 3, 2009, 07:45 PM

I think two basic changes: 1.Very colorful and effective advertising regarding hunting products you don't have and just discovered you desperately need. 2. Widespred ignorance of the 10th Commandent. I hear there may be a third reason. According to my wife, there is a difference between want and need. I just can't get my mind around that statement, and apparently many other American men (and some ladies) have the same blessed blind spot.

SavageSniper · October 3, 2009, 08:07 PM

The whole keeping up with the Jones's thing got way out of hand. Soo many people want more than they need. I have fallen for that too many times also.

Rigby1962 · October 3, 2009, 08:49 PM

Use what you want but when you come on the net and ask “what if” your going to get people that disagree. If you don’t want to here negative responses done ask. I hunt deer with Brenneke 12 gauge 3"magnums and a 475 Linebaugh. Do I care if anyone thinks its over kill? No

rickyjames · October 3, 2009, 08:49 PM

well ya got blued guns ranging from parked to jewel like finish, then ya got stainless guns with varying finishes, then ya got stocks from plain wood to museum furniture grade. ya got different synthetic stocks painted in just about every color of the rainbow and some with all colors combined in various patterns and designs. add to that engraving on both gun and stock. ya got single shots, bolts, and levers and semi autos and full autos. you have military and civilian types of guns. and what about scopes and all the other aftermarket sighting devices. ya got pistol calibers and standard calibers and magnum calibers and now even short magnum calibers. ya have calibers ranging from .17 cal to 50 cal. and then you have custom guns.

what would happen to all these gun and ammo manufacturers and magazines we all read if all the gun gurus printed that all anyone needs is a .22, a 30/30 and a 12 guage. the economy and the gun world as we know it would come to an end.

and yeah, i have 18 different rifle calibers so i guess their advertising works

roy reali · October 3, 2009, 09:09 PM

I was thrilled as a kid when I was asked to join a deer hunt. I really loved deer camp, all the fellows, the campfire telling of tall tales and coming up with solutions to all the world's problems. I remember their gear and clothing.

I don't remember ever seeing any of the guys wearing anything in camouflage pattern. The pants were usually some sort of denim and the shirts some sort of flannel job. Some guys wore shirts that had red pattern plaid to help with safety. Boot were whatever they owned, many were ones they used for work. No one smelled of deer urine either.

I wonder if Mr. MossyOak was such a kid going to deer camps? He saw all these guys dressed "normally" for deer hunting and decided a line of products would make him a millionare.

GeauxTide · October 3, 2009, 09:36 PM

In the 70s, Muscle Cars and Magnum Rifles were the rage. Seems like it's come around, again. The Weather Defeating, Titanium, 5 pound, .5 MOA guaranteed to 1000 yards, Ultragallactic EvapoMagnum that only drops 12" at 800 yards in a suppressed package with 4 pounds of recoil.

DWARREN123 · October 4, 2009, 02:49 AM

Knew their firearms better and had to get the job done with what they had.

wyobohunter · October 4, 2009, 03:20 AM

Quote:

30-06, some took their .30-30. their .300 savage, even .25-35's.

Who ever said that these aren't reliable deer killers? I think if anybody ever makes that claim they'd get laughed out of the room

Double Naught Spy · October 4, 2009, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Really, seriously, what has changed with deer hunting?

Part of what has changed is modern perceptions of the past. Things in the past were always better. People didn't complain as much. Men were stronger. Women were more virtuous. Hunters were better shooters, etc.

I can certainly remember my uncle telling my cousin something along the lines of, "You don't don't want to take no deer with that. Y'all'll spend all day chasing him down."

Translation? Not enough gun. That was nearly 40 years ago. My uncle was in his later 60s at the time.

Which leads to the other aspect that has changed, a greater focus on making clean and humane as possible kills. Notice my uncle could not have cared less about the suffering of the animal. He just saw no reason to run around the country after a wounded animal.

troy_mclure · October 4, 2009, 06:26 AM

actualy the deer are much more plentiful, and a lil bit bigger than our grandfathers day. theres more and better food for them.

also we(some of us) tend to shoot longer ranges as well. talking to some real old timers a 100yd shot with their 30-30 was highly impressive

JagFarlane · October 4, 2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Some took their .30-06, some took their .30-30. their .300 savage, even .25-35's.

And most "what caliber should I get threads" usually end up including the .30-06, still being one of the most popular rounds out there. The .30-30 is still often used, the .300 Savage was supplanted by the .308Win but is slowly making a comeback [Savage and T/C both have production rifles chambered for it]. You talk of a circle, and yes, I think its slowly coming back down. Sure, you'll always have people talking about magnums, long distance shots, etc.
Part of it, I really think though, is just the appeal and the fun that all the other offerings bring. With the Depression Era survivors, being conservative about ammunition was just something ingrained in them. These days, we go out to the range all year round to have fun, plinking away at varying targets. We often shoot, not just to put meat on the table, but for fun. Part of that fun though, is challenging ones self with longer shots and bigger loads.
As a side note, don't fool yourself, if our grandfathers had been able to get ahold of some of the camo we have these days, they probably would have used it.
Personally, I'm in my 20's...my one hunting rifle is a .270 Win. Bought it because it was all the gun I need for what I want to hunt. And honestly, among my shooting friends, all in their 20's, all of them respect the .270Win as a good round.
If I get into bear and moose, I may move to something like a 300 WSM, but the one caliber I have wanted for about a year now....the old 300 Savage.

Cheers and happy hunting!

roy reali · October 4, 2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

As a side note, don't fool yourself, if our grandfathers had been able to get ahold of some of the camo we have these days, they probably would have used it.

The most successful deer hunters don't wear camo at all. Mountain Lion attire doesn't look anything like what is on sale at Cabela's on any given weekend.

JagFarlane · October 4, 2009, 07:49 AM

Quote:

The most successful deer hunters don't wear camo at all. Mountain Lion attire doesn't look anything like what is on sale at Cabela's on any given weekend.

And yet...the Mountain Lion is the result of hundreds of years of adaptation. Its coat has adapted to give it the right amount of shading for its conditions.
However, if you wish, Tiger stripes work like camo, breaking up their pattern, as do Leopard, Cheetah, Ocelot, Jaguar....shall I go on? I think they're all very successful hunters in their own right. Sharks have a white underbelly so that when one looks up at them, it just appears to be sunlight.
Same goes for a large amount of birds...mourning doves and quail all have coloring that allows them to blend into their surroundings. Fawns have spotted coats to help them hide.

Edward429451 · October 4, 2009, 09:25 AM

I forget which rag it was in but I read an article in a real old rag and the old timer was talkin deer huntin, and prolly tryin to be modern speak about it and made the statement ...you want to be sure you have 250 FP of energy in the rig you choose to assure a clean kill.../snip

Well if someone got on here talkin 250 ftlbs for deer I imagine it'd be one of the most exciting threads ever with all the academios explaining why you need a magnum

lizziedog1 · October 4, 2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Well if someone got on here talkin 250 ftlbs for deer I imagine it'd be one of the most exciting threads ever with all the academios explaining why you need a magnum

May I quote from a beer commercial...Brilliant!

FrankenMauser · October 4, 2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

actualy the deer are much more plentiful, and a lil bit bigger than our grandfathers day. theres more and better food for them.

I agree with that statement.... partially... for certain subspecies, and certain parts of the country....
In my neck of the woods, populations of Mule Deer have dropped terribly. Compounding the lower population, is the absence of truely healthy animals. They're all malnourished, under developed, and forced to live in terrain that was only 'optional' 20 years ago.

The problem with animal populations is people. Bigger, better, and more of it. We always have to 'improve', even while knowing that 16 plants, 23 insects, 4 birds, 2 rodents, and 1 reptile will likely be pushed to extinction; thereby permanently altering the entire ecosystem in the area.

What has changed? See above. Bigger, better, and more of it. I understand the desire for a super ultra mega magnum. I don't want one, though. My Ruger .270 Win shoots flat enough, and long enough, to reach beyond the limits of this shooter. In special situations, I might be seen with a .243 Win, 7.62x54R, 7.62x39mm, 12ga, or .220 Swift. They all have a hunting 'niche' to fill, but the .270 does it all. I pull out the other rifles for unique situations; usually where I don't want to beat up the beautiful Ruger. (Or the scope is a hinderance.)

sasquatch · October 4, 2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Our fathers and grandfathers would grab whatever rifle they owned to go deer hunting. Some took their .30-06, some took their .30-30. their .300 savage, even .25-35's.

What has changed? TECHNOLOGY.

Most of us don't utilize the old-time rifles/calibers for the same reason that golfers of today don't still use "brassies", "mashies", and "niblicks".

hogdogs · October 4, 2009, 01:38 PM

Technology may have put new types and calibers out there but it hasn't proven that the venerable 100 plus year old calibers and cartridges are substandard... If I was going to buy a long range (200+ yards) deer rifle, it would be a .30-06 or .308. Otherwise, my .30-30 is all I could ever need for whitetails.
Brent

wyobohunter · October 4, 2009, 09:57 PM

Just a thought... I wonder if the black powder and muzzle loader generations thought the same thing about the newfangled smokless powder and cartridge ad campaign? Was it just heavy advertising that sucked us in? Seriously, a .50 cal muzzle loader kills a deer just as dead as anything else.

Or... are most cartridges that were concieved after about 1906 just beyond the point of diminishing returns?

I dunno, I don't feel too strongly and wouldn't kick up dust with anybody on this one, I likes em all - old and new.

Swampghost · October 4, 2009, 10:31 PM

I think that it's just trying to get REALLY specific as to which round is best given a certain circumstance. Where I hunt this can change around the next tree or hammock most of the time.

I'll take 3-4 rifles into camp with overlapping capabilities JIC something should happen. If everything goes wrong, I just have to change tactics to suit the weapon.

Art Eatman · October 4, 2009, 10:42 PM

Post-WW II, we've created the wealthiest society in the history of the world. No matter what the artifact, there are more choices, now, than ever in history.

For that matter, when I was a kid, there were--basically--three hunting magazines at the news stands.

The Model 70 came in standard, featherweight or Super Grade. Period. Same for the other few brands available.

No .223, no .243, no .308, no 7mmRemMag or .264 WinMag, etc., etc.

And no Internet for folks to spend hours picking fly-poop out of pepper.

Wealthy folks--and if you live in the US you're weallthy by world standards--you have choices and the leisure time to discuss them.

October 3, 2009, 07:07 PM	#1
lizziedog1 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Posts: 289	What Has Changed? Our fathers and grandfathers would grab whatever rifle they owned to go deer hunting. Some took their .30-06, some took their .30-30. their .300 savage, even .25-35's. No one balked at them for having under powered cartridges. They went and shot and killed and brought home a shkinny whitetail for supper. Were the deer more thin skinned back then? Do deer also use steroids? Was the ammo loaded hotter then today? Did the last generations have some magical ability to kill deer with bullets not powered by cartridges that require several adjectives in their names? Really, seriously, what has changed with deer hunting?

October 3, 2009, 07:21 PM	#2
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Another Change Back then, they did not ask anyone else if their gun was adequate. They didn't read articles stating that their cartridge of choice was going to bouce off the deer. They just went and did it.

October 3, 2009, 07:28 PM	#3
Bella Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Posts: 341	For Some, Nothing A wife of a good friend is one of the best hunters I've ever met. She fills her tags each and every year. She uses an old Winchester lever action .30-30. It even has a side mounted scope., This rig is so beat up , so ugly, it would scare other guns out of their rack. Her husband has offerd to buy her a new rifle/scope combination. She gives him a look that would be perfect for Halloween. I guess, some people are old-fashoined.

October 3, 2009, 07:45 PM	#5
TJMiller Member Join Date: July 17, 2009 Location: North-Central Montana Posts: 16	What has changed I think two basic changes: 1.Very colorful and effective advertising regarding hunting products you don't have and just discovered you desperately need. 2. Widespred ignorance of the 10th Commandent. I hear there may be a third reason. According to my wife, there is a difference between want and need. I just can't get my mind around that statement, and apparently many other American men (and some ladies) have the same blessed blind spot.

October 3, 2009, 08:07 PM	#6
SavageSniper Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2005 Location: Crawfordville, FL Posts: 494	The whole keeping up with the Jones's thing got way out of hand. Soo many people want more than they need. I have fallen for that too many times also. __________________ This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights!

October 3, 2009, 07:45 PM	#4
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	I can fill my freezer with a 22 rimfire. But, I might see a B&C 300 yards out quartering away. No doubt there is a lot of overkill, but a 270 or 30/06 is a more reliable killer than say a 30/30 However if a man wants to learn to shoot a big magnum and can make a good shot the deer is none the worse off for it.

October 3, 2009, 08:49 PM	#7
Rigby1962 Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2007 Posts: 264	Use what you want but when you come on the net and ask “what if” your going to get people that disagree. If you don’t want to here negative responses done ask. I hunt deer with Brenneke 12 gauge 3"magnums and a 475 Linebaugh. Do I care if anyone thinks its over kill? No

October 3, 2009, 08:49 PM	#8
rickyjames Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 558	well ya got blued guns ranging from parked to jewel like finish, then ya got stainless guns with varying finishes, then ya got stocks from plain wood to museum furniture grade. ya got different synthetic stocks painted in just about every color of the rainbow and some with all colors combined in various patterns and designs. add to that engraving on both gun and stock. ya got single shots, bolts, and levers and semi autos and full autos. you have military and civilian types of guns. and what about scopes and all the other aftermarket sighting devices. ya got pistol calibers and standard calibers and magnum calibers and now even short magnum calibers. ya have calibers ranging from .17 cal to 50 cal. and then you have custom guns. what would happen to all these gun and ammo manufacturers and magazines we all read if all the gun gurus printed that all anyone needs is a .22, a 30/30 and a 12 guage. the economy and the gun world as we know it would come to an end. and yeah, i have 18 different rifle calibers so i guess their advertising works

October 3, 2009, 09:09 PM	#9
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Other Gear I was thrilled as a kid when I was asked to join a deer hunt. I really loved deer camp, all the fellows, the campfire telling of tall tales and coming up with solutions to all the world's problems. I remember their gear and clothing. I don't remember ever seeing any of the guys wearing anything in camouflage pattern. The pants were usually some sort of denim and the shirts some sort of flannel job. Some guys wore shirts that had red pattern plaid to help with safety. Boot were whatever they owned, many were ones they used for work. No one smelled of deer urine either. I wonder if Mr. MossyOak was such a kid going to deer camps? He saw all these guys dressed "normally" for deer hunting and decided a line of products would make him a millionare.

October 3, 2009, 09:36 PM	#10
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	Marketing and Television Impact Shots In the 70s, Muscle Cars and Magnum Rifles were the rage. Seems like it's come around, again. The Weather Defeating, Titanium, 5 pound, .5 MOA guaranteed to 1000 yards, Ultragallactic EvapoMagnum that only drops 12" at 800 yards in a suppressed package with 4 pounds of recoil.

October 4, 2009, 02:49 AM	#11
DWARREN123 Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2006 Location: BETWEEN TN & KY Posts: 1,758	Knew their firearms better and had to get the job done with what they had. __________________ Have a nice day!

October 4, 2009, 06:26 AM	#14
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	actualy the deer are much more plentiful, and a lil bit bigger than our grandfathers day. theres more and better food for them. also we(some of us) tend to shoot longer ranges as well. talking to some real old timers a 100yd shot with their 30-30 was highly impressive __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

October 4, 2009, 09:25 AM	#18
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I forget which rag it was in but I read an article in a real old rag and the old timer was talkin deer huntin, and prolly tryin to be modern speak about it and made the statement ...you want to be sure you have 250 FP of energy in the rig you choose to assure a clean kill.../snip Well if someone got on here talkin 250 ftlbs for deer I imagine it'd be one of the most exciting threads ever with all the academios explaining why you need a magnum

October 4, 2009, 01:38 PM	#22
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Technology may have put new types and calibers out there but it hasn't proven that the venerable 100 plus year old calibers and cartridges are substandard... If I was going to buy a long range (200+ yards) deer rifle, it would be a .30-06 or .308. Otherwise, my .30-30 is all I could ever need for whitetails. Brent

October 4, 2009, 09:57 PM	#23
wyobohunter Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Location: Back in Wyoming Posts: 1,125	Just a thought... I wonder if the black powder and muzzle loader generations thought the same thing about the newfangled smokless powder and cartridge ad campaign? Was it just heavy advertising that sucked us in? Seriously, a .50 cal muzzle loader kills a deer just as dead as anything else. Or... are most cartridges that were concieved after about 1906 just beyond the point of diminishing returns? I dunno, I don't feel too strongly and wouldn't kick up dust with anybody on this one, I likes em all - old and new.

October 4, 2009, 10:31 PM	#24
Swampghost Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: Florida, east coast Posts: 2,106	I think that it's just trying to get REALLY specific as to which round is best given a certain circumstance. Where I hunt this can change around the next tree or hammock most of the time. I'll take 3-4 rifles into camp with overlapping capabilities JIC something should happen. If everything goes wrong, I just have to change tactics to suit the weapon. __________________ NRA Patron Member

October 4, 2009, 10:42 PM	#25
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Post-WW II, we've created the wealthiest society in the history of the world. No matter what the artifact, there are more choices, now, than ever in history. For that matter, when I was a kid, there were--basically--three hunting magazines at the news stands. The Model 70 came in standard, featherweight or Super Grade. Period. Same for the other few brands available. No .223, no .243, no .308, no 7mmRemMag or .264 WinMag, etc., etc. And no Internet for folks to spend hours picking fly-poop out of pepper. Wealthy folks--and if you live in the US you're weallthy by world standards--you have choices and the leisure time to discuss them.