|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
August 12, 2013, 07:17 PM | #101 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 6, 2012
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,670
|
The continuing militarization of the police starting to gain press attention
I don't think that is a valid reason to aim a loaded firearm at a civilian simply because he or she lives in the general area where the attack occurred. If they were aiming at any civilian taking pictures of them then I am greatly concerned...
|
August 12, 2013, 07:20 PM | #102 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Posts: 3,513
|
I somewhat agree with you, but have you tried looking into a window of someones home while standing outside, especially on the second story. You don't have a clear sight picture, and for all they knew that could have been a rifle in their hands.
|
August 12, 2013, 07:21 PM | #103 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,142
|
Dragline45--
The biggest case of illegal searches I can recall. I'm betting nobody files suit about this, though. |
August 12, 2013, 07:22 PM | #104 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 6, 2012
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,670
|
The continuing militarization of the police starting to gain press attention
Can I aim at another civilian simply because he may have a gun that I can't see and my house was robbed the day before?
|
August 12, 2013, 07:24 PM | #105 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Posts: 3,513
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
August 13, 2013, 05:50 PM | #106 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 779
|
Quote:
B) It was two underage boy hoodlums with too much time, some hate, and household appliances. By this logic if twenty 19yo's around the country blew up pressure cookers in 20 cities, the whole country should be militarized. That is a very saddening and strong slippery slope you are advocating C) Fear and tension is entirely irrelevant to ones conduct. More importantly people being placed in a position of authority does not arbitrarily remove the need to follow the 4 Rules. Our police should practice the same conduct and muzzle discipline as any law abiding citizen does.
__________________
I told the new me, "Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'" But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back." Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor |
|
August 13, 2013, 08:34 PM | #107 |
Junior member
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,995
|
When in Mexico, in the middle of the drug war, in the most dangerous city in the world according to EIU, with much more extensive firefights on a near daily basis, I never had a LEO muzzle me so carelessly. In fact, even at military checkpoints where everything was dumped out on the road I never had a marine muzzle me so carelessly. I never saw them muzzle anyone else so carelessly either.
In this case the officer obviously has extensive support. Half his body is in an armored vehicle. The other half is covered in armor. The possibility of him suddenly finding himself outgunned in some sort of ambush is minimal. There it wasn't just possible, but for many was a reality. So, yes, I guess I do feel pretty comfortable blaming him. He might be lucky his trigger finger isn't clearly visible. Hopefully not though. |
August 14, 2013, 11:14 AM | #108 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,530
|
Quote:
Clinton and Obama are the only two presidents which have made the call for a national police force. The Department of Homeland Security -- a department that should never have come into existence -- is not a national police force any more than the FBI is a national police force. Please don't attribute political motive to my posts.
__________________
Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
|
August 14, 2013, 11:26 AM | #109 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,530
|
Considering the East Coast mindset you are likely quite correct.
__________________
Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
August 15, 2013, 12:45 AM | #110 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 20, 2013
Posts: 194
|
Press better write what they can while they can. A certain Senator that recently proposed an "assault weapons" ban, has proposed limiting freedom of the press. The fact that this is something she is comfortable stating out in the open and going on record with is very disturbing in itself.
Sad days ahead. The press may not be printing much of anything on this matter if Feinstien gets her way. |
August 15, 2013, 09:37 AM | #111 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Posts: 1,196
|
Citizens are comfortable with this escalation/transformation because mainstream media has instilled a fear in non-gun owners minds of a continuing increase in firepower and use of military style assault weapons by criminals. Media has alarmed the public to such an extent that police agencies hardly need to justify their use of such equipment.
|
August 15, 2013, 11:29 AM | #112 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 5, 2008
Posts: 182
|
Quote:
|
|
August 15, 2013, 11:34 AM | #113 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 5, 2008
Posts: 182
|
Quote:
If you'd do the same then you must certainly prefer safety and security over liberty. We all know what Franklin said about that. I don't understand why you would own a gun or participate in a liberty oriented forum. There was no need for a military force to chase one bad guy. Standard police work would have sufficed. This kid had no where to run and would have been in contact with friends or family within hours. Better yet, would be for the citizens in the very home and source of American liberty to have exercised their constitutional rights to self protection and been able to defend their own homes against this criminal intruder or any criminal intruder. |
|
August 15, 2013, 02:11 PM | #114 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
Re Levant's requested link in post 112:
http://watchdog.org/100682/feinstein...-a-journalist/ This was covered in several online news sources around August 12. |
August 15, 2013, 03:35 PM | #115 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
FYI - here's a police site arguing why the current trend is a good thing as it protects us from using the real military.
http://www.policeone.com/patrol-issu...r&nlid=6384916 Not my position - just info.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
August 15, 2013, 04:41 PM | #116 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: September 6, 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,350
|
So, according to Chief Shults, the local cops aren't militarizing, they are just using "protective gear"?
Quote:
Quote:
To which I answer, Police Chiefs ARE politicians - doing just that!
__________________
Go Pokes! Go Rams! |
||
August 15, 2013, 07:53 PM | #117 |
Junior member
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,995
|
If police were only getting increased defensive capability I don't think it would be a problem. Yes, 100 years ago some police were carrying full auto weapons, but most were carrying 6 shot revolvers. Even 20 years ago most police had shotguns in their cruisers AND most seemed to think it was just for looks. Now most departments have a full auto AR for each full time officer. Quite a few have heavier weaponry than that. Tasers are used in cases where an officer would not be justified using physical force as if there is no danger.
I seriously doubt the redcoats were as wanton with their use of force as several departments in the US. |
August 15, 2013, 08:33 PM | #118 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 5, 2008
Posts: 182
|
Thanks for the link MLeake. I remember the story. Very scary stuff.
Quote:
|
|
August 16, 2013, 12:20 AM | #119 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 20, 2013
Posts: 194
|
Last edited by fragtagninja; August 16, 2013 at 12:39 AM. |
August 16, 2013, 09:12 AM | #120 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 6, 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,350
|
Here is an interesting you tube video. In the video, a retired Marine Corps officer tries to convince his city council that they don't need a BearCat armored vehicle. It goes straight to the point of this thread!
This man makes a very good point! There is always free cheese in a mousetrap! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Equc9A1pqQk#at=11
__________________
Go Pokes! Go Rams! |
August 16, 2013, 09:20 AM | #121 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 6, 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,350
|
Sometimes I ask myself whom I fear more, the police or criminals? It shouldn't be that way!
Quote:
__________________
Go Pokes! Go Rams! Last edited by Wyoredman; August 16, 2013 at 09:33 AM. |
|
August 16, 2013, 10:58 AM | #122 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,459
|
Quote:
If they want to prevent deaths and injuries to the citizens, they could stop these dynamic entry warrant "services" over non-life threatening searches, and just knock on the door like civilized peace officers. |
|
August 16, 2013, 10:07 PM | #123 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 5, 2008
Posts: 182
|
Quote:
But think about the times when the police - local, state, or federal, used military equipment and tactics against civilians. It's never worked out well. The MOVE bombing in Philadelphia, Waco, Kent State. Any others come to mind? The way to use military equipment is the military tactics for which it was designed. To use it in non-military fashion would not work. I'm not talking about four-wheel drive trucks. I'm talking about armoured personal carriers and assault vehicles. They just don't work for protecting citizens and keeping peace. Their intimidation factor only works if you are willing to use them. Waco, MOVE, and Kent State all show how badly using them works out. |
|
August 17, 2013, 08:14 AM | #124 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 6, 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 1,057
|
I have been advocating for 20 years that ALL government agencies (excluding the actual military) be subject to the same gun/weapon/equipment laws that the civilian population is coerced into obeying.
Instead, law enforcement and virtually any government agency is being exempt from any weapon restriction, leading us inexorably to a state where the government as a whole is armed in a far superior fashion than the citizenry that it derives it's power from. The latest example is right here in CO, we the people are now limited to 15 round magazines, while the government gets whatever it wants. I am absolutely convinced that this trend is specifically designed for the hegemonic domination of the general populace.
__________________
NRA Lifetime Member Since 1999 "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials." George Mason Last edited by iraiam; August 17, 2013 at 08:21 AM. |
August 17, 2013, 09:09 AM | #125 |
Junior member
Join Date: August 7, 2013
Posts: 198
|
It's only a metter of time before the police find out what the British, Russians and now us are discovering in Afghanistan.
|
|
|