30 Luger not 9mm

w_houle · September 3, 2008, 02:43 PM

I was going to post something somewhere else and realized that I am still a little mad about it. The more you know... I guess.
I went to the gun store around here and bought a Luger in 9mm. I went to walmart and picked up a box of 9x19 and off to the range I went. First bullet wouldn't chamber, and it turned into a mess from there. After I took the magazine out and cleared the jam I tried it again with no luck. My landlord at the time was a gunsmith so I had him look at it. Well at least HE got a laugh out of it. Turned out my Luger was in .30 Luger, not 9x19. The store wouldn't take it back. I found someone selling .30 Luger. $35 for 20 that left little grey discs through the barrel and action with every malfunction possible except failure to fire. I hated that gun and took a hell of a loss getting rid of it.

HKuser · September 3, 2008, 07:22 PM

I would love to have a Luger in 7.65mm. It's the original chambering, should have kept it.

darkgael · September 3, 2008, 08:50 PM

I am curious as to what the paperwork said about the caliber of the gun. If it says 9mm, then it seems to me that the store would have to take it back. If it said 30 Luger, then no.
Were there any caliber stamps on the gun itself?
Pete

w_houle · September 3, 2008, 10:00 PM

I don't remember many of the marks on the pistol. The ones I remember was the nice DWM over the chamber, lower case v, MADE IN GERMANY on the right side. I don't remember caliber marks on the gun, but the price tag and receipt was marked 9mm. Someone told me it was the 1926 Commercial Variant, and that by the import stamp had to have been imported into the U.S. before 1968.
It's okay thought, all of the guns that I managed to hold onto I lost during my divorce. I just wish I had known it was the caliber it was in, because I would have realized how hard ammunition was going to be to get and wouldn't have bought it. Had that have been my only Luger, I would think they were all pieces of ****.

Tuckahoe · September 4, 2008, 08:02 AM

I would avoid doing business with them in the future.

James K · September 4, 2008, 02:02 PM

No Lugers, except those post-WWII models made for the U.S. market, were ever marked with the caliber in a way most users would see and understand.

On the malfunctioning, I strongly suspect the ammo was poor quality reloads. The 7.65 guns are usually far more reliable than the 9mm's and are a sweet gun to shoot due to the low recoil. And the 7.65 is nothing to stand in front of; it puts out a 93 grain bullet at around 1220 fps, definitely not a joke. The downside, unless you reload, is cost of ammo. The 7.65 was never used in large quantities by either military (except for Switzerland) or police, so surplus ammo is rare.

Jim

TEDDY · September 7, 2008, 08:22 AM

JIM AND OTHERS:the 7.63 X 25 is same case and I am not sure if the load is any heavier.My Russian friend told me he never heard of the 7.63 X 25 he called them 30 mauser.he used them in ppk41, broomhandle,and torkorev.he was in russian army in finish war and ww2.he was a great hunter.

TEDDY · September 7, 2008, 08:26 AM

one look at muzzle should have told you.I am sure JIM would have.

Jim Watson · September 7, 2008, 08:37 AM

30 Luger

JIM AND OTHERS:the 7.63 X 25 is same case

Teddy,

No it is not. .30 Luger is 7.65x21, not interchangeable with the Mauser round. Georg Luger shortened the cartridge for use in a butt magazine with spring housing behind it so the grip would be a reasonable size.

Tamara · September 7, 2008, 09:06 AM

As someone who once completely ruined a 9mm bore snake by getting it good and stuck in a .30 Luger barrel, I empathize.

Still, nothing wrong with a .30 Luger, as it is the original caliber for the gun. (The 9mm was a later evolution demanded by the German Army, IIRC.) The problem, as you found out, is finding quality .30 Luger ammo to shoot if you don't reload. Back before European gun laws homogenized somewhat, the peculiar Italian rule of "No Military Calibers" kept .30 Luger commercially viable enough that Fiocchi and Winchester kept it as a regular catalog item. Ruger even offered their P-89 in the chambering. Now that Italians can own pistols chambered in 9x19mm NATO, .30 Luger (and 9x21mm) are getting a lot harder to find.

ISC · September 7, 2008, 10:02 AM

i have never heard of a .30 Luger before this thread. I have heard of .30 Mauser. . 30 Mauser is indeed diminsionally identical to 7.62x25 (AKA 7.63x25, AKA .30 Tokerev) but 7.62x25 is loaded significantly hotter. 7.62x25 SMG ammo will catastrophically destroy a luger or broomhandle.

I recall reading that Germany was prohoibited from manufacturing many firearms in mil9mm during the ijnterwar years due to the Treaty of Versailles and that is why they resumed production in .30 Mauser.

OK just read up on it some and it looks like the .30 Luger was an oddball chambering for a handful of Swiss and Finnish pistols and for the civilians that were prohibited from owning .30 mauser or 9mm. I'd want to get a chamber casting done to verify the caliber and then consider getting it reamed to .30 mauser.

Jim Watson · September 7, 2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

then consider getting it reamed to .30 mauser.

NOoooo!
That would ruin the gun. .30 Mauser is much too long for the Luger magazine and action stroke.

.30 Luger was not an "oddball" chambering. As said above, it was the original caliber for the gun and was quite popular with the Swiss, Finns, and Portugese armies adopting it. There were a lot of commercial sales, only some of which were due to Treaty of Versailles restrictions on German gun production or Italian law. Heck, the US Army bought 1000 of them.

Tamara · September 7, 2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

There were a lot of commercial sales, only some of which were due to Treaty of Versailles restrictions on German gun production or Italian law.

True. I was just referencing the plight of someone trying to find good commercial .30 Luger ammo to shoot these days.

Incidentally, my most recent experience came when a gunsmith friend gave me a stack of gun parts to move on eBay back in Summer of '01. In the pile were several Luger barrels. I went to clean them before putting them up for sale. Imagine my chagrin when the bore snake ground to a halt in the middle of one of the barrels...

Jim Watson · September 7, 2008, 01:15 PM

Tamara, I was referring to ISC's description of the .30 Luger as "oddball."

What strikes me as odd is people's willingness to buy unknown items.

In this case the vendor's ignorance or lie is a factor, but it comes up on the boards every day... "I bought a gun like so, what do I have?" I can understand accepting a gift or inheritance without having the details, but paying good money for a pig in a poke is just beyond me.

James K · September 7, 2008, 07:36 PM

I have a Colt Combat Commander in 9mm Luger, but the barrel is marked ".30 Luger." Apparently they had leftover barrels from a foreign (Italian?) order and just rebored and re-rifled them. I wrote Colt for info and they told me I could send the gun back and they would replace the barrel for the proper caliber!

Sure.

Actually, I would like to get a 7.65 Luger barrel for that gun, but Colt disavows all knowledge of such a caliber.

(As an aside, the 7.65 Luger or 7.65x21 is sometimes confused with the 7.65 Browning, which is the .32 ACP and an entirely different cartridge.)

Jim

Tamara · September 7, 2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Keenan

I have a Colt Combat Commander in 9mm Luger, but the barrel is marked ".30 Luger." Apparently they had leftover barrels from a foreign (Italian?) order and just rebored and re-rifled them. I wrote Colt for info and they told me I could send the gun back and they would replace the barrel for the proper caliber!

Sure.

"Just send us that penny with the upside-down Lincoln on it and we'll send you back a shiny new one!"

Jeez, did they offer to pay the postage?

James K · September 8, 2008, 02:35 PM

No, I was going to put my "upside down airplane" stamp on the package.

Jim

kenno · November 3, 2008, 12:00 PM

Jim
Colt produced 1500 Comanders in 30-Luger for export to Italy in the late 60's or early 70's. 5 pistols were returned to the USA. I have one NIB with all paperwork includeing the Colt Documentation Letter.

September 3, 2008, 02:43 PM	#1
w_houle Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,391	30 Luger not 9mm I was going to post something somewhere else and realized that I am still a little mad about it. The more you know... I guess. I went to the gun store around here and bought a Luger in 9mm. I went to walmart and picked up a box of 9x19 and off to the range I went. First bullet wouldn't chamber, and it turned into a mess from there. After I took the magazine out and cleared the jam I tried it again with no luck. My landlord at the time was a gunsmith so I had him look at it. Well at least HE got a laugh out of it. Turned out my Luger was in .30 Luger, not 9x19. The store wouldn't take it back. I found someone selling .30 Luger. $35 for 20 that left little grey discs through the barrel and action with every malfunction possible except failure to fire. I hated that gun and took a hell of a loss getting rid of it. __________________ How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?

September 3, 2008, 08:50 PM	#3
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	30 Luger I am curious as to what the paperwork said about the caliber of the gun. If it says 9mm, then it seems to me that the store would have to take it back. If it said 30 Luger, then no. Were there any caliber stamps on the gun itself? Pete

September 3, 2008, 10:00 PM	#4
w_houle Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,391	I don't remember many of the marks on the pistol. The ones I remember was the nice DWM over the chamber, lower case v, MADE IN GERMANY on the right side. I don't remember caliber marks on the gun, but the price tag and receipt was marked 9mm. Someone told me it was the 1926 Commercial Variant, and that by the import stamp had to have been imported into the U.S. before 1968. It's okay thought, all of the guns that I managed to hold onto I lost during my divorce. I just wish I had known it was the caliber it was in, because I would have realized how hard ammunition was going to be to get and wouldn't have bought it. Had that have been my only Luger, I would think they were all pieces of ****. __________________ How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?

September 4, 2008, 08:02 AM	#5
Tuckahoe Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Location: Central eastern North Carolina Posts: 194	I would avoid doing business with them in the future. __________________ You know a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy Charles Manson

September 7, 2008, 08:22 AM	#7
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	30 Luger JIM AND OTHERS:the 7.63 X 25 is same case and I am not sure if the load is any heavier.My Russian friend told me he never heard of the 7.63 X 25 he called them 30 mauser.he used them in ppk41, broomhandle,and torkorev.he was in russian army in finish war and ww2.he was a great hunter.

September 3, 2008, 07:22 PM	#2
HKuser Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2008 Location: PA Posts: 625	I would love to have a Luger in 7.65mm. It's the original chambering, should have kept it.

September 4, 2008, 02:02 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	No Lugers, except those post-WWII models made for the U.S. market, were ever marked with the caliber in a way most users would see and understand. On the malfunctioning, I strongly suspect the ammo was poor quality reloads. The 7.65 guns are usually far more reliable than the 9mm's and are a sweet gun to shoot due to the low recoil. And the 7.65 is nothing to stand in front of; it puts out a 93 grain bullet at around 1220 fps, definitely not a joke. The downside, unless you reload, is cost of ammo. The 7.65 was never used in large quantities by either military (except for Switzerland) or police, so surplus ammo is rare. Jim

September 7, 2008, 08:26 AM	#8
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	eyeball one look at muzzle should have told you.I am sure JIM would have.

September 7, 2008, 08:37 AM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,528	30 Luger JIM AND OTHERS:the 7.63 X 25 is same case Teddy, No it is not. .30 Luger is 7.65x21, not interchangeable with the Mauser round. Georg Luger shortened the cartridge for use in a butt magazine with spring housing behind it so the grip would be a reasonable size.

September 7, 2008, 09:06 AM	#10
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	w_houle, As someone who once completely ruined a 9mm bore snake by getting it good and stuck in a .30 Luger barrel, I empathize. Still, nothing wrong with a .30 Luger, as it is the original caliber for the gun. (The 9mm was a later evolution demanded by the German Army, IIRC.) The problem, as you found out, is finding quality .30 Luger ammo to shoot if you don't reload. Back before European gun laws homogenized somewhat, the peculiar Italian rule of "No Military Calibers" kept .30 Luger commercially viable enough that Fiocchi and Winchester kept it as a regular catalog item. Ruger even offered their P-89 in the chambering. Now that Italians can own pistols chambered in 9x19mm NATO, .30 Luger (and 9x21mm) are getting a lot harder to find. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

September 7, 2008, 10:02 AM	#11
ISC Junior member Join Date: August 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,982	i have never heard of a .30 Luger before this thread. I have heard of .30 Mauser. . 30 Mauser is indeed diminsionally identical to 7.62x25 (AKA 7.63x25, AKA .30 Tokerev) but 7.62x25 is loaded significantly hotter. 7.62x25 SMG ammo will catastrophically destroy a luger or broomhandle. I recall reading that Germany was prohoibited from manufacturing many firearms in mil9mm during the ijnterwar years due to the Treaty of Versailles and that is why they resumed production in .30 Mauser. OK just read up on it some and it looks like the .30 Luger was an oddball chambering for a handful of Swiss and Finnish pistols and for the civilians that were prohibited from owning .30 mauser or 9mm. I'd want to get a chamber casting done to verify the caliber and then consider getting it reamed to .30 mauser.

September 7, 2008, 01:15 PM	#14
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,528	Tamara, I was referring to ISC's description of the .30 Luger as "oddball." What strikes me as odd is people's willingness to buy unknown items. In this case the vendor's ignorance or lie is a factor, but it comes up on the boards every day... "I bought a gun like so, what do I have?" I can understand accepting a gift or inheritance without having the details, but paying good money for a pig in a poke is just beyond me.

September 7, 2008, 07:36 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I have a Colt Combat Commander in 9mm Luger, but the barrel is marked ".30 Luger." Apparently they had leftover barrels from a foreign (Italian?) order and just rebored and re-rifled them. I wrote Colt for info and they told me I could send the gun back and they would replace the barrel for the proper caliber! Sure. Actually, I would like to get a 7.65 Luger barrel for that gun, but Colt disavows all knowledge of such a caliber. (As an aside, the 7.65 Luger or 7.65x21 is sometimes confused with the 7.65 Browning, which is the .32 ACP and an entirely different cartridge.) Jim

September 8, 2008, 02:35 PM	#17
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	No, I was going to put my "upside down airplane" stamp on the package. Jim

November 3, 2008, 12:00 PM	#18
kenno Junior member Join Date: November 3, 2008 Posts: 180	Jim Colt produced 1500 Comanders in 30-Luger for export to Italy in the late 60's or early 70's. 5 pistols were returned to the USA. I have one NIB with all paperwork includeing the Colt Documentation Letter.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search