Sights for CMP shooting with middle aged eyes?

DarthNul · May 1, 2013, 10:07 AM

Just joined the local CMP club. Did my first 200 yard shoot last night. My goal for the night was to not mistakenly shoot at somebody else's target (mission accomplished!).

I didn't shoot for a recorded score since my rifle still mounts a scope. I need to get some legal sights on it and I'm asking for recommendations.

The rifle is a flat-top AR. The front sight would need to mount on the short rail on top of the standard height gas block. The rear needs to mount on the receiver rail. I wear glasses. We generally shoot 200 yards with reduced size targets. I don't know enough about aperture sights to have a preference yet.

oryx · May 1, 2013, 07:12 PM

Not sure if you are planning on shooting service rifle or Match rifle. If SR, then you will need the standard A2 front sight and the detachable carry handle with sight. There are many makes and varying qualities, but an entry level DPMS will run you about $100. If you are shooting a gas block, you will want to replace it with a standard front height. (beware there are different sight heights for carbines and rifles)
If you are shooting match rifle, you can upgrade to better aperature sights such as Warner, Centra, Phoenix Precision, etc. you can also change out the front sight to something like MCS, ANS, Stallings Machine, etc. these will give you adjustable front and rear iris and precision windage and elevation adjustments.

Service rifle is like stock cars, match rifle is like formula one! (Service rifle rules inmy opinion)

Good luck

DarthNul · May 1, 2013, 08:56 PM

Thanks for the reply!

I already scoped out the DPMS carry handle/sight setup at Midway and it's in stock (yay!).

Does service rifle allow me to change out the standard sight aperture and front sight for "national match" diameters?

Time to google some rules...

kraigwy · May 2, 2013, 08:52 AM

Yes

CMP Rule 6.1.2 Service Rifle Modification:

Quote:

The dimensions of the rear sight (internal diameter) and the front sight post (width) MAY vary from standard military dimensions. The rear sight hood diameter may not be longer then 0.70" or larger than .050" in diameter. The rear sight aperture MAY have a fixed, non-adjustable round, square or rectangular aperture insert. A corrective lens or multi-focal lens system may be inserted in the rear sight hood.

Basically what that means is you change the inside of the rear sight but it has to meet the outside dimensions of the military rifle sight.

NRA service rifle rules are less restrictive then CMP rules, When the rules are in conflict the CMP governs, or you have to abide by the CMP rules.

You want your "service rifle" set up per CMP rules. If you shoot high power service rifle you're going to want to work on your distinguished rifle badge, which is a CMP Match or other CMP matches such as the President's Hundred.

DarthNul · May 2, 2013, 09:31 AM

Thanks kraigwy!

I found the rules online. I appreciate your explanation. I've got the sights ordered from Midway.

It looks like my collapsible carbine stock isn't going to cut it either but that's going to have to wait a few weeks. Hopefully somebody at the club has a gauge to verify my trigger pull.

oryx · May 2, 2013, 04:02 PM

If your local club has "practice" matches, you might be able to start shooting with what you have until your gun gets properly set up - there is a lot to learn other than equipment; and if its informal, most will let you shoot along anyway. The more experienced shooters can also be a good resource to help you out.

Bart B. · May 5, 2013, 11:14 AM

Kraig, that sentence in the CMP rules "A corrective lens or multi-focal lens system may be inserted in the rear sight hood." was a result of an incident in the President's Hundred match some time back in the 1980's at Camp Perry.

A good friend of mine was shooting his M1A with a -.375 diopter lens super-glued inside the NM rear sight's hood. He was talking about it with his scorekeeper and the Referee just happened to be walking by at the time overhearing him. The Ref immediately declared the rifle illegal for DCM/CMP matches and that old retired Navy MCPO using it quickly challenged it. His reasoning was, in order to allow older folks with less than perfect vision compete equally with the younger, sharp-eyed folks, they should be allowed to use it. Filling the aperture with plastic steel then drilling it out to .040" to sharpen vision was legal but it darkened the target image too much. Besides, nothing in the rules specifically mentioned it not being allowed anyway. He kept on shooting the match under protest or something like that. So the Match Rules Committee met and talked about it. They all said the rear sight looked like a standard NM rear sight and older folks should be able to see their sights clear and sharp just like the younger ones. The next year, that rule sentence (above) was inserted. And the guy using the corrective lens placed in the top ten of the match.

May 1, 2013, 10:07 AM	#1
DarthNul Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 288	Sights for CMP shooting with middle aged eyes? Just joined the local CMP club. Did my first 200 yard shoot last night. My goal for the night was to not mistakenly shoot at somebody else's target (mission accomplished!). I didn't shoot for a recorded score since my rifle still mounts a scope. I need to get some legal sights on it and I'm asking for recommendations. The rifle is a flat-top AR. The front sight would need to mount on the short rail on top of the standard height gas block. The rear needs to mount on the receiver rail. I wear glasses. We generally shoot 200 yards with reduced size targets. I don't know enough about aperture sights to have a preference yet. __________________ The most feared gun control law proposal: Require buyers to register all gun purchases with their wives

May 1, 2013, 07:12 PM	#2
oryx Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2008 Posts: 142	Not sure if you are planning on shooting service rifle or Match rifle. If SR, then you will need the standard A2 front sight and the detachable carry handle with sight. There are many makes and varying qualities, but an entry level DPMS will run you about $100. If you are shooting a gas block, you will want to replace it with a standard front height. (beware there are different sight heights for carbines and rifles) If you are shooting match rifle, you can upgrade to better aperature sights such as Warner, Centra, Phoenix Precision, etc. you can also change out the front sight to something like MCS, ANS, Stallings Machine, etc. these will give you adjustable front and rear iris and precision windage and elevation adjustments. Service rifle is like stock cars, match rifle is like formula one! (Service rifle rules inmy opinion) Good luck Last edited by oryx; May 2, 2013 at 03:56 PM.

May 1, 2013, 08:56 PM	#3
DarthNul Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 288	Thanks for the reply! I already scoped out the DPMS carry handle/sight setup at Midway and it's in stock (yay!). Does service rifle allow me to change out the standard sight aperture and front sight for "national match" diameters? Time to google some rules... __________________ The most feared gun control law proposal: Require buyers to register all gun purchases with their wives

May 2, 2013, 09:31 AM	#5
DarthNul Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 288	Thanks kraigwy! I found the rules online. I appreciate your explanation. I've got the sights ordered from Midway. It looks like my collapsible carbine stock isn't going to cut it either but that's going to have to wait a few weeks. Hopefully somebody at the club has a gauge to verify my trigger pull. __________________ The most feared gun control law proposal: Require buyers to register all gun purchases with their wives

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May 2, 2013, 04:02 PM	#6
oryx Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2008 Posts: 142	If your local club has "practice" matches, you might be able to start shooting with what you have until your gun gets properly set up - there is a lot to learn other than equipment; and if its informal, most will let you shoot along anyway. The more experienced shooters can also be a good resource to help you out.

May 5, 2013, 11:14 AM	#7
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Kraig, that sentence in the CMP rules "A corrective lens or multi-focal lens system may be inserted in the rear sight hood." was a result of an incident in the President's Hundred match some time back in the 1980's at Camp Perry. A good friend of mine was shooting his M1A with a -.375 diopter lens super-glued inside the NM rear sight's hood. He was talking about it with his scorekeeper and the Referee just happened to be walking by at the time overhearing him. The Ref immediately declared the rifle illegal for DCM/CMP matches and that old retired Navy MCPO using it quickly challenged it. His reasoning was, in order to allow older folks with less than perfect vision compete equally with the younger, sharp-eyed folks, they should be allowed to use it. Filling the aperture with plastic steel then drilling it out to .040" to sharpen vision was legal but it darkened the target image too much. Besides, nothing in the rules specifically mentioned it not being allowed anyway. He kept on shooting the match under protest or something like that. So the Match Rules Committee met and talked about it. They all said the rear sight looked like a standard NM rear sight and older folks should be able to see their sights clear and sharp just like the younger ones. The next year, that rule sentence (above) was inserted. And the guy using the corrective lens placed in the top ten of the match.