Guns and the blind, in Iowa ???

Pahoo · October 15, 2013, 10:41 AM

Although this subject/challenge, is currently effecting Iowa permit holders, I see that eventually it will likely effect other states. ....

BACKGROWN;
When Iowa first went to shall-issue, a couple of years ago, there were three areas of the law, that I and others, thought were weak or potentially controversial. Regardless, it was and still is, a good law but far from perfect. ....

Well, now an issue has surfaced in one of these area, pertaining to a blind person obtaining a permit. The case in point, is a man who is totally blind and this has gotten the local Sheriff questioning the current requirement. ...

????
Should legally blind folks be allowed to obtain CCW's? I must say that it's given me much to think about and although I have an opinion, it's not an easy question to answer. ....

Be Safe !!!

zxcvbob · October 15, 2013, 11:07 AM

Why not? I know your example says "totally blind", but many legally blind people can see, just not well enough to drive.

Even the totally blind have a right to defend themselves.

How many examples can you find of blind people recklessly shooting into a crowd of people?

Don P · October 15, 2013, 11:09 AM

As much as I would like to say yes I have to state no. A disaster waiting to happen. Would be almost impossible for the visually impaired to know someone is closing in on them and should the would be attacker be on his game should be able to disarm without much effort. Just my penny's worth. I worked for a service for the visually impaired and have seen first hand some of the difficulties that they deal with on a daily basis. Just one example I'll use is there mobility factor and imagine them trying to find and use cover if needed. They are truly challenged daily and I give them all the credit in the world for venturing out in todays world and functioning in todays society. People that are legally blind are deemed so for a reason. If we choose to to arm them then why not give them a drivers license??

Davey · October 15, 2013, 11:25 AM

I say go for it.

Aiming at a distance would be more difficult or even impossible. There is a chance, however, that a blind person could get a shot off with the muzzle in direct contact with an attacker. The blind person would need to make that judgment call on his/her own just like any non-blind person would.

As for a blind person shooting into a crowd what's stopping that person from doing that whenever he/she pleases to begin with? Nothing.

If a blind person makes a bad judgment call then that person should be held up to the same consequences as any other person.

**44 AMP** · October 15, 2013, 11:49 AM

Quote:

If we choose to to arm them then why not give them a drivers license??

I disagree with the idea that we are "choosing to arm them". Wrong point of view, in my opinion. WE aren't arming them. I think a CCW permit should be available to the blind. For the legal protection it offers.

Obviously, a blind person cannot use a gun the same way a sighted person can, but that does not mean a gun is totally useless to them for personal protection.

Consider this,
If I were blind, I would still keep (at least) one gun. Some kind of "bellygun" snub .38 or .357. Reason? last ditch defense. Contact distance. Emergency use only (obviously).

If someone has me down and is beating my head against the pavement, having that bellygun might mean the difference between living to make a police report and not living. And, it has to be concealed, until needed in gravest extreme.

So, a permit is needed to comply with the law.

This is NOT the same kind of situation as a blind person driving a car on public streets. Not even close.

BarryLee · October 15, 2013, 12:21 PM

All individuals have a right to protect themselves and this includes those with physical challenges.

Evan Thomas · October 15, 2013, 12:25 PM

44AMP is spot on.

We have at least one blind member on the forum, Blindmansbluff, who has a permit and carries concealed on a daily basis. Do a search for his threads, and you'll find he makes a very good case for why he carries; he's very responsible about how , and for what situations, he trains. (He's very clear that for him, a concealed pistol is a contact weapon.)

He also has a blog; although he doesn't post too often, it's a good read. He's a serious 2A supporter, and he makes a very good case that his right to arm himself is no different from anyone else's.

(I wish he'd come back -- he hasn't been active in a while.)

Armed_Chicagoan · October 15, 2013, 01:30 PM

Well the first 10 seconds of this clip shows a blind man successfully defending his property with a pistol... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cnzuI4fsMs

Colt46 · October 15, 2013, 01:31 PM

There are varying degrees of it. Someone can be declared legally blind and still have some vision.
Equal Protection is Equal Protection. I may not be comfortable with a 100% lack of vision person having CCW, but I would trust him to make use of his needs for self defense right up until the time he shows otherwise.

Salmoneye · October 15, 2013, 01:49 PM

44 AMP pretty much crystallized it...

J A · October 15, 2013, 04:02 PM

Only a very small percentage of legally blind have no vision at all. Around 3 percent if I remember correctly. I wear corrective lenses for a vision impairment. If I had my glasses knocked off in a struggle with an attacker I would be visually impaired. How many of you have gotten up in the middle of the night when awoken by a strange noise and searched your darkened home. Hard to see wasn't it?
How about a LEO at night searching in a dark building or alley? Their vision would/is impaired right?
I see no difference with legally blind and any of the above situations. If someone has me on the ground with intent to do bodily harm with or with out my corrective lenses I will know it.
There are no laws or restrictions that say a CCW has to be able to identify and stop an attacker at 25 feet. Most life threatening situations happen much closer than that.
I feel the legally blind deserve and have the right to the same protections under the law that I have. It is their choice if they are comfortable with a concealed weapon.

glh17 · October 15, 2013, 05:38 PM

Part of TN's carry permit requirement is to show proficiency. The requirement is minimal and I believe the furthest target was 7 or 10 yards. There were enough 3 and 5 yard targets to qualify if you put the rounds without the outer perimeter of the target. My guess is that a legally blind, but not totally blind, person could qualify without much trouble.

October 15, 2013, 10:41 AM	#1
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Guns and the blind, in Iowa ??? Although this subject/challenge, is currently effecting Iowa permit holders, I see that eventually it will likely effect other states. .... BACKGROWN; When Iowa first went to shall-issue, a couple of years ago, there were three areas of the law, that I and others, thought were weak or potentially controversial. Regardless, it was and still is, a good law but far from perfect. .... Well, now an issue has surfaced in one of these area, pertaining to a blind person obtaining a permit. The case in point, is a man who is totally blind and this has gotten the local Sheriff questioning the current requirement. ... ???? Should legally blind folks be allowed to obtain CCW's? I must say that it's given me much to think about and although I have an opinion, it's not an easy question to answer. .... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing. Last edited by Pahoo; October 15, 2013 at 02:45 PM.

October 15, 2013, 11:07 AM	#2
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Why not? I know your example says "totally blind", but many legally blind people can see, just not well enough to drive. Even the totally blind have a right to defend themselves. How many examples can you find of blind people recklessly shooting into a crowd of people? __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth Last edited by Tom Servo; October 15, 2013 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Good point, but the snark was a bit much.

October 15, 2013, 11:09 AM	#3
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	As much as I would like to say yes I have to state no. A disaster waiting to happen. Would be almost impossible for the visually impaired to know someone is closing in on them and should the would be attacker be on his game should be able to disarm without much effort. Just my penny's worth. I worked for a service for the visually impaired and have seen first hand some of the difficulties that they deal with on a daily basis. Just one example I'll use is there mobility factor and imagine them trying to find and use cover if needed. They are truly challenged daily and I give them all the credit in the world for venturing out in todays world and functioning in todays society. People that are legally blind are deemed so for a reason. If we choose to to arm them then why not give them a drivers license?? __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

October 15, 2013, 12:21 PM	#6
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	All individuals have a right to protect themselves and this includes those with physical challenges. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

October 15, 2013, 12:25 PM	#7
Evan Thomas Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Upper midwest Posts: 5,631	44AMP is spot on. We have at least one blind member on the forum, Blindmansbluff, who has a permit and carries concealed on a daily basis. Do a search for his threads, and you'll find he makes a very good case for why he carries; he's very responsible about how , and for what situations, he trains. (He's very clear that for him, a concealed pistol is a contact weapon.) He also has a blog; although he doesn't post too often, it's a good read. He's a serious 2A supporter, and he makes a very good case that his right to arm himself is no different from anyone else's. (I wish he'd come back -- he hasn't been active in a while.) __________________ Never let anything mechanical know you're in a hurry.

October 15, 2013, 11:25 AM	#4
Davey Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2010 Location: Not far enough from Chicago Posts: 394	I say go for it. Aiming at a distance would be more difficult or even impossible. There is a chance, however, that a blind person could get a shot off with the muzzle in direct contact with an attacker. The blind person would need to make that judgment call on his/her own just like any non-blind person would. As for a blind person shooting into a crowd what's stopping that person from doing that whenever he/she pleases to begin with? Nothing. If a blind person makes a bad judgment call then that person should be held up to the same consequences as any other person.

October 15, 2013, 01:30 PM	#8
Armed_Chicagoan Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2013 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 776	Well the first 10 seconds of this clip shows a blind man successfully defending his property with a pistol... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cnzuI4fsMs

October 15, 2013, 01:31 PM	#9
Colt46 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: Campbell Ca Posts: 1,090	Blindness is a legal term There are varying degrees of it. Someone can be declared legally blind and still have some vision. Equal Protection is Equal Protection. I may not be comfortable with a 100% lack of vision person having CCW, but I would trust him to make use of his needs for self defense right up until the time he shows otherwise.

October 15, 2013, 01:49 PM	#10
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	44 AMP pretty much crystallized it...

October 15, 2013, 04:02 PM	#11
J A Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: The Hawkeye State Posts: 191	I am for the issuance to legally blind Only a very small percentage of legally blind have no vision at all. Around 3 percent if I remember correctly. I wear corrective lenses for a vision impairment. If I had my glasses knocked off in a struggle with an attacker I would be visually impaired. How many of you have gotten up in the middle of the night when awoken by a strange noise and searched your darkened home. Hard to see wasn't it? How about a LEO at night searching in a dark building or alley? Their vision would/is impaired right? I see no difference with legally blind and any of the above situations. If someone has me on the ground with intent to do bodily harm with or with out my corrective lenses I will know it. There are no laws or restrictions that say a CCW has to be able to identify and stop an attacker at 25 feet. Most life threatening situations happen much closer than that. I feel the legally blind deserve and have the right to the same protections under the law that I have. It is their choice if they are comfortable with a concealed weapon.

October 15, 2013, 05:38 PM	#12
glh17 Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2013 Location: Middle TN Posts: 165	Part of TN's carry permit requirement is to show proficiency. The requirement is minimal and I believe the furthest target was 7 or 10 yards. There were enough 3 and 5 yard targets to qualify if you put the rounds without the outer perimeter of the target. My guess is that a legally blind, but not totally blind, person could qualify without much trouble.

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