M1 Carbine ID?

dbuffington · September 16, 2012, 10:01 AM

Hi Folks!

Today, in the latest episode of "What the Heck Did I Buy?" we have an M1 Carbine I purchased at auction yesterday.

I'm a novice at military arms of all kinds, but here (I think) are the essentials ...

M1 Carbine
General Motors Inland Division
Serial 5380103
Rear sight marked "H.I."
Stock has no arsenal rebuild stamps
Round bolt
Side-by-side mag release and safety

You'll find a few images below. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Dave

w748 · September 18, 2012, 12:14 AM

Looks nice!! The carbine is my favorite just for fun gun of all time. You can probably find an aproximate date block on the CMP site.
Take it out and shoot it.

dbuffington · September 18, 2012, 05:17 AM

Thanks! It's cleaning up very nicely. (Much of what I feared was corrosion was actually old, caked lubricant.) I haven't torn it down completely to check all of the parts, but it all appears to be USGI WWII original, dating to mid-1944.

And better yet, we have already taken it out to shoot, and it functions perfectly and groups nicely. I can see why this is your favorite

Thanks again!
Dave

grumpa72 · September 18, 2012, 09:56 AM

Wouldn't the date on the barrel be a good indicator, assuming it was the original one?

Go here and post your question and photos -

http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=77

**4V50 Gary** · September 18, 2012, 06:57 PM

It is not uncommon for a GI gun to have mis-matched parts. Armorers didn't care about collectibility. Their priority was to service and return a working gun to the gun on the front line. Even at the arsenal level, no nicety was practiced in matching parts. That wasn't even a consideration to them. Your M-1 Carbine is one such critter.

Scorch · September 18, 2012, 10:22 PM

No bayonet lug!

**4V50 Gary** · September 23, 2012, 11:10 AM

No bayonet lug is a WW II gun. Guns refitted post-WW II had the bayonet lug added as an update.

James K · September 23, 2012, 10:39 PM

The rear sight and round bolt are upgrades but otherwise it looks pretty original, including the early sling.

The oiler is upside down.

Jim

mapsjanhere · September 24, 2012, 03:11 PM

The Germans and Austrians also removed the bayonet lugs prior to issue of M1 Carbines to the police forces in occupied Germany/Austria. So typically those guns were refinished with a glossy varnish, and have unit markings on them.

RickB · September 27, 2012, 11:25 AM

Yeah, it looks pretty "original" (that is, it has parts that are consistent with an earlish production gun - stock, barrel, push-button safety, lack of bayo lug - but no way to tell if they are original to the gun).
The overall condition is about like my Carbine, which has more of the "late" features, and came out of a government arsenal in the early '60s.

James K · September 27, 2012, 12:22 PM

On those few carbines I have seen with the bayonet lug "demilled", the little rails were simply ground off. They didn't remove the type 3 band and replace it with a Type 1 or 2 band (where would they have gotten them?).

Jim

TomADC · September 28, 2012, 02:58 PM

Just curious what does it say under the rear sight?

Chris_B · September 29, 2012, 11:23 AM

Respectfully I feel you'll find that bayonet lug barrel bands and also adjustable rear sights could be found as original equipment on very late WWII issued M1 carbines- it's just that it is rarely found and not really easy to prove on a carbine by carbine basis

If the receiver is Inland, there's a chance that the s/n had to be re-struck just behind the bolt, as the adjustable sight obscured many Inland s/ns.

The presence of a re-struck s/n on an Inland is a fairly good indicator that the rifle received arsenal overhaul

Four rivet handguard is 'late'. Stock shows signs of sanding, very long ago. WWII type 'straight belly' stock

It is a fairly late s/n but has a push-button safety, which is kind of odd. That s/n would be summer 1944, I believe. By this date, the push-button safety should have been changed to rotary type

Looks like round bolt, which would also be odd for a 'WWII' carbine, but the USGI carbine was only made during years in which WWII was fought, so in other words, that could be an M2 bolt potentially. I'm no expert, just knowledgeable but the classic 'WWII' bolt is the 'flat top' type

Nice carbine, I would own it in a heartbeat. May be put together from different parts from different carbines, which is not unusual nor "bad". US military rifles and carbines like this had parts mixed during their service life

Do you know how to field strip it?

September 16, 2012, 10:01 AM	#1
dbuffington Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Posts: 157	M1 Carbine ID? Hi Folks! Today, in the latest episode of "What the Heck Did I Buy?" we have an M1 Carbine I purchased at auction yesterday. I'm a novice at military arms of all kinds, but here (I think) are the essentials ... M1 Carbine General Motors Inland Division Serial 5380103 Rear sight marked "H.I." Stock has no arsenal rebuild stamps Round bolt Side-by-side mag release and safety You'll find a few images below. Any thoughts? Thanks! Dave

September 18, 2012, 06:57 PM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	It is not uncommon for a GI gun to have mis-matched parts. Armorers didn't care about collectibility. Their priority was to service and return a working gun to the gun on the front line. Even at the arsenal level, no nicety was practiced in matching parts. That wasn't even a consideration to them. Your M-1 Carbine is one such critter. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 18, 2012, 10:22 PM	#6
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	No bayonet lug! __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

September 23, 2012, 11:10 AM	#7
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	No bayonet lug is a WW II gun. Guns refitted post-WW II had the bayonet lug added as an update. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 24, 2012, 03:11 PM	#9
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	The Germans and Austrians also removed the bayonet lugs prior to issue of M1 Carbines to the police forces in occupied Germany/Austria. So typically those guns were refinished with a glossy varnish, and have unit markings on them. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

September 18, 2012, 12:14 AM	#2
w748 Member Join Date: February 19, 2008 Location: High in the Rockies Posts: 89	Looks nice!! The carbine is my favorite just for fun gun of all time. You can probably find an aproximate date block on the CMP site. Take it out and shoot it.

September 18, 2012, 05:17 AM	#3
dbuffington Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Posts: 157	Thanks! It's cleaning up very nicely. (Much of what I feared was corrosion was actually old, caked lubricant.) I haven't torn it down completely to check all of the parts, but it all appears to be USGI WWII original, dating to mid-1944. And better yet, we have already taken it out to shoot, and it functions perfectly and groups nicely. I can see why this is your favorite Thanks again! Dave

September 18, 2012, 09:56 AM	#4
grumpa72 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 487	Wouldn't the date on the barrel be a good indicator, assuming it was the original one? Go here and post your question and photos - http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=77

September 23, 2012, 10:39 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The rear sight and round bolt are upgrades but otherwise it looks pretty original, including the early sling. The oiler is upside down. Jim

September 27, 2012, 11:25 AM	#10
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,517	Yeah, it looks pretty "original" (that is, it has parts that are consistent with an earlish production gun - stock, barrel, push-button safety, lack of bayo lug - but no way to tell if they are original to the gun). The overall condition is about like my Carbine, which has more of the "late" features, and came out of a government arsenal in the early '60s.

September 27, 2012, 12:22 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	On those few carbines I have seen with the bayonet lug "demilled", the little rails were simply ground off. They didn't remove the type 3 band and replace it with a Type 1 or 2 band (where would they have gotten them?). Jim

September 28, 2012, 02:58 PM	#12
TomADC Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: San Diego County Posts: 795	Just curious what does it say under the rear sight? __________________ US Navy Retired,NRA Life Member,SASS member, Time magazine's Person of the Year 2006!

September 29, 2012, 11:23 AM	#13
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Respectfully I feel you'll find that bayonet lug barrel bands and also adjustable rear sights could be found as original equipment on very late WWII issued M1 carbines- it's just that it is rarely found and not really easy to prove on a carbine by carbine basis If the receiver is Inland, there's a chance that the s/n had to be re-struck just behind the bolt, as the adjustable sight obscured many Inland s/ns. The presence of a re-struck s/n on an Inland is a fairly good indicator that the rifle received arsenal overhaul Four rivet handguard is 'late'. Stock shows signs of sanding, very long ago. WWII type 'straight belly' stock It is a fairly late s/n but has a push-button safety, which is kind of odd. That s/n would be summer 1944, I believe. By this date, the push-button safety should have been changed to rotary type Looks like round bolt, which would also be odd for a 'WWII' carbine, but the USGI carbine was only made during years in which WWII was fought, so in other words, that could be an M2 bolt potentially. I'm no expert, just knowledgeable but the classic 'WWII' bolt is the 'flat top' type Nice carbine, I would own it in a heartbeat. May be put together from different parts from different carbines, which is not unusual nor "bad". US military rifles and carbines like this had parts mixed during their service life Do you know how to field strip it? Last edited by Chris_B; September 29, 2012 at 11:34 AM.

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