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Old January 10, 2008, 07:15 PM   #1
drworry
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reloading 45ACP

Hi all
I have a Dillon SDA, and have just starting reloading for 45 ACP (I had been doing 38 and 45LC). I am using Win 231, and win large pistol primers. I am surprised to find that I am having a devil of a time with failure to extract - either stovepipes or the slide notm cycling fully back.

The pistol: Springfield XD 45 5" tactical;
The bullet: Rainier 200 g round nose (the semi - covered lead safe stuff)
The load: Win 231, 5.3 gr
OAL: .123 (tried .126 - thought might be better less - not)
crimp: moderate taper, .473 or so at the neck after crimp

Accuracy is fine. I'm getting to the end of the recommended powder load for this bullet and carttidge...some say 5.5 or 5.6)

Any ideas?

Thanks!
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Old January 10, 2008, 07:36 PM   #2
cdrt
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My Lyman manual #47 says you can go to 6.5 grains with a 200 grain SWC lead bullet. What manual are you using?
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Old January 10, 2008, 08:54 PM   #3
drworry
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I used in part the data from the winchester reloading site (hodgens). The data they list are:

200 GR. CAST LSWC 200 231 .451" 1.225" 4.4 771 11,000 CUP 5.6 914 16,900 CUP
200 GR. SPR JHP 200 231 .451" 1.155" 5.2 794 12,700 CUP 5.9 906 16,700 CUP


NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS

The winchester data from "the complete reloading manual for the 45 ACP"
lists 5.5 as the max.

But, as you say, if I go to the lyman bullet section, let's say, they will list 6 grains or so. Speer 200 g goes to 6.3. I wonder if the winchester section just lowballs it....

The rainier site says to treatment these as lead bullets - they also warn against excessive speeds because the thin jacketing might come off.

what do you think?
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Old January 10, 2008, 08:55 PM   #4
Shane Tuttle
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I think you've misread your load data:

In Speer's #13 manual p.575 it states 5.6-6.2gr for Win231 on a 230gr TMJ @ 1.260".
For a 200gr, on p574 it states to use 5.6-6.3gr for Win231 on a 200gr TMJ @ 1.275"

In Lyman's 48th edition pp. 356-357, 230gr for Win231 isn't denoted.
For 200gr #2 Alloy #452630 for Win 231= 5.4-6.1gr @ 1.235".

I've found a happy medium with my Rainier bullets (they're 230gr) on loading them between the charges for FMJ vs. lead bullets.

I think from the information you provided is that you're loading quite light to allow full cycling of the slide. I don't want you to take my word as gospel. Please practice at your own discretion, but I think you need to bump up your charge to at least 5.6gr and use 1.250" OAL. XD's are tough guns, so if they feel a little peppy or you end up trying hotter loads (within reason, of course) you don't need to worry about the gun blowing up or damage to the gun.

Also, changing out brands/types of primers do make a difference on the way the end result of complete burn cycle of the round. I'd stay with an average OAL and stick to primers you like. Then, find the powder charge that just starts to cycle your gun reliably. After this is established, start reducing your OAL a little bit. Be very subtle with reducing OAL. This greatly increases the pressure induced. You may have to play with your powder charge if you do this. However, I like a shorter OAL for the most part and use a lower charge powder within recommended ranges than more powder with a long OAL.

This is just my process. There are others out there that may have better ways of skinning a cat, but it works for me.

One last thing, this is how I develop plinking loads. For competition or SD, I think I'll let the experts answer those....
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Old January 10, 2008, 08:57 PM   #5
Shane Tuttle
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Quote:
they also warn against excessive speeds because the thin jacketing might come off.
With a .45ACP, the velocity and reasonable loads that I load doesn't present this problem.

Now, if you're loading hot with .40SW or 9mm, that's a whole 'nuther can of worms...
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Old January 10, 2008, 09:17 PM   #6
KeithB78
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My XD45 doesn't like lead SWC bullets, maybe the Rainier's act like a lead bullet.

i have heard of problems with Rainier lead safe bullets

i use Winchester 230GR FMJ bullets in the loads for my XD45
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Old January 10, 2008, 10:23 PM   #7
Smokey Joe
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FTE's & stovepipes...

Dr Worry--When I began loading for .45 ACP I ran into the same thing--failure to extract, and stovepipes. I was shooting light target loads, but the solution had nothing to do with the load.

What it boiled down to was that I wasn't crimping the cases around the bullets quite enough, so the cartridges had a tendency to stick in the chamber after firing. Increased the amount of crimp a very little more, and--Voila!--the problem disappeared!!

So: What is the diameter of yr cases, after crimping, right at the case mouth? I had been crimping to a diameter of 0.470-0.471". And jam, jam, jam. When I crimped tighter, to a diameter of 0.468-0.469", the problem disappeared. BTW, these are all taper crimps, not roll crimps--The .45 ACP guns headspace on the case mouth, so that case mouth must not be turned in toward the bullet like, say, a .38 Special case.

Bottom line: It may not be yr powder load that is the problem. It could be the amount of crimp you are using. I do hope you find and can solve the problem!
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Last edited by Smokey Joe; January 10, 2008 at 10:25 PM. Reason: The usual--Had another thought.
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Old January 10, 2008, 11:15 PM   #8
drworry
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Hi thanks for the thoughts -

I was wondering about the crimp - as I said, it seems to be around .473 -
Interestingly, I called the Sierra line and they said that "crimp has no effect" - I assume that they never tried to blow up a ballon with a leak.....

I have wondered about the ability of the case mouth to hold the rainir bullet -I'm going to try some LSWC 200 g which have the usual check cannulure and see if i get good cycling - I bet it works - my papa ran 5.2 g 231 with therse bullets through his colt commander for years fine.

I'll try increasing the crimp a bit -

thanks!
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Old January 10, 2008, 11:24 PM   #9
cdrt
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Just an observation. I load 3.5 grains of BE with a 185 grain SWC for Bullseye. I taper crimp them so they measure .472 across the case mouth. These rounds cycle fine in my Clark 1911 Heavy Slide (it has a full length Bo-Mar rib with adds a bunch of weight to the slide), but to get them to cycle, I use a 9 lb recoil spring. The factory std for the 1911 is 16 pounds.

Before you start crimping beyond what the book recommends, which .473, you might try changing out your recoil spring to handle the lighter load.
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Old January 12, 2008, 12:22 PM   #10
Nevadajim775
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Favorite recipes for 45 acp

I have read somewhere that using Titegroup with certain lead bullets such as 200 grain SWC and 230 grain LRN can increase leading problems. I have been using 4.8 grains of Titegroup on both and haven't really noticed what I would call problems. Minor leading maybe, but not what I'd call a problem. Apparently some loaders have switched to either Unigue or 231 to remedy the situation. A typical day on the range shooting either pins or plates, I might use up 200 or so rounds with the average velocities running just about 800 fps. A little less than 800 for plates and slightly over for pins would be my choice. I've experimented with Missouri Bullets, Chey Bullets and Xtreme Bullets. All three are of very fine quality as far as I'm concerned. The Brinell rating runs from a low of 12 with the Missouri LRN to about 16 with their SWC and about the same with Chey and Xtreme. Some local shooters in my group claim a leading problem, but nothing that can't be taken care of during routine cleaning. I have not had any accuracy or feeding problems with either my Colt Double Eagle or my Taurus PT1911 using the above loads providing that the OAL is adjusted correct. I tend to seat a little deeper than what some manuals call for and have not had any signs of problems.

I'm open to any and all favorite recipes and/or suggestions.

Jim

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Old January 13, 2008, 05:00 PM   #11
clayking
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The max for the 200 gr. lswc using 231 is 5.6 according to the web site.http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

I bought a SA Long slide this past summer and until I got up to 5.6 it would not recycle about every time. After a few hundred rounds I've worked down to 5.4, which cycle just fine.
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Old January 13, 2008, 05:35 PM   #12
drworry
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Interestingly, I took the same set up and substituted 200 g LSWC (same crimp, depth, powder charge) and the slide cycled just fine. I suspect that the lead just seals better than the electroplated and so more pressure develops.

I will go ahead and try 5.6 g of 231 with both the rainier 200 g and the 200 g berrys and see what happens. I'll bet that they resemble more jacketed than lead.

Thanks for the input.
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Old January 15, 2008, 09:40 PM   #13
drworry
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Finally got it - 5.6 g of 231 did the trick with both berry's and rainier 200 g- maybe after a few thousand rounds i can use less powder.....

thanks all!
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Old January 16, 2008, 09:27 AM   #14
wingman
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I use a Lee Factory Crimp die on all my loads really is a plus in obtaining good
loads also Titegroup has given me best accuracy with target loads in my 45acp.
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Old January 17, 2008, 03:49 PM   #15
pappyo
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reloading 45's

I use 3.6 grs of bullseye. 200gr lyman 452460 cast swc (wheel weights) works good for me. with a taper crimp not roll
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