What's Your Experience with Federal Rifle Brass?

Christchild · November 22, 2009, 06:06 PM

After a search of the "Handloading & Reloading" Forum, I was UNable to locate any information on the problem I'm having, so I'm starting this Thread.

I'm in the process of Prepping the Federal Headstamp .270 Win. cases that were in the 144 pieces of Once Fired brass that arrived Thursday last week. There were 71 pieces of Remington, which are now prepped. All the Remingtons went through the FL Size Die with no problems. Out of 22 pieces of Federal, 4-5 have been very tough on the Ram "Down Stroke", as the Expander Ball comes back through. 1 piece had such a solid grip on the Expander Ball that it pulled the Zip Spindle THROUGH the Collet's Threads. (Hornady CGND FL Size Die)

These Federal cases look like Once Fired factory brass, not Handloads that will work harden through successive firings, like we all know they will. In the unlikely event (unlikely, in MY opinion) that they ARE Work Hardened Handloads, the Handloader has not trimmed them back to length, because the "rough" Case Mouth Edge or Rim is still "Factory Rough", so I definitely believe these to be Once Fired.

Has anyone had any similar experiences with Federal brass???

Thanks In Advance!!!

Ozzieman · November 22, 2009, 06:37 PM

I have a lot of 30-06 and 6 MM REM Federal and I have never had a problem with Federal brass like your describing.
Have you checked the thickness of the case mouth?

cornbush · November 22, 2009, 07:00 PM

I have a fair amount of Federal 270 brass and have never had a problem. I have heard guys say the primer pocket can stretch out earlier on Federal brass, but I have never had it happen.

Christchild · November 22, 2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Have you checked the thickness of the case mouth?

With Dial Calipers, the Case Neck Wall Thickness is 0.013" to 0.014"... Only around 0.001" variation, all the way around. Pretty Normal for factory brass, IMHO.

I've had about the same experiences that You guys have had, until now.

FALPhil · November 22, 2009, 07:11 PM

In my experience, Federal brass tends to be soft, resulting in expanded primer pockets after 3-4 full power loads. Remington and Winchester brass seems to be tougher. Lately, the Remington brass has been pretty good.

GeauxTide · November 22, 2009, 08:41 PM

Ditto. I've found WW brass to be the toughest, but it's hard to find now.

Ozzieman · November 22, 2009, 09:12 PM

Just to make sure, your saying that the Federal and the Rem were measureing 0.013 to .014.
I just went out and checked a couple of my federal 30-06 and 6mm rem and all were 0.014 to .015. These have all been fired a couple of times but I also have some Remengtion 6mm brass new and it also measured the same as the federal.

UniversalFrost · November 22, 2009, 11:16 PM

never had a problem with federal to date. in fact I really like the nikel plated from them. I use federal for most of my plinking brass and get same number of reloads with it versus the other major makers. If I load hot, the federl just like all the other makers will wear out sooner.

JOE

azredhawk44 · November 23, 2009, 12:04 AM

My experience mimics Phil's.

I find Federal to be soft at the head-end, and brittle at the case mouth after 2-3 firings. I don't think they anneal the necks at all.

I'm at the point where I treat my existing lots of Federal brass the same as a box of Wolf steel case: The next time any of it gets loaded up... it's getting left behind for someone else to have headaches with.

I've been happiest with Remington over the last couple years.

Pathfinder45 · November 23, 2009, 02:16 AM

....uses Federal brass. I've had primers pockets get loose after 2 firings; but they were smokin'-hot loads, [I've had Hornady's 140 grainers clocked @ 3,285]. But reading through the original post it seems like the inside of the offending cases necks weren't prepped properly. I find that the inside surface of the case neck should be brushed and lightly lubed before sizing. You can use a case-neck brush made just for this. What I do is chuck up a bronze .30 caliber bore brush into my cordless drill and grab a handful of cases and give 'em all a quick pass through with the drill on high speed. Next step is to take a .270 bore mop lightly lubed with sizing lube and pass it through each case by hand then follow the usual sizing procedure. I trim my .270 cases after every sizing. If you don't want to be bothered to trim your cases, just use .30-'06 cases. They're just a little shorter and when sized to .270 you might never have to trim them. I use a lot of '06 brass and I don't think it makes a bit of difference at 100 yards. All my 300 yard+ ammo is on Federal .270 brass. I hope this helps.

UniversalFrost · November 23, 2009, 09:16 AM

as far as lubing the inside of the case mouth, try out the frankford arsenal graphite lube kit, it comes with brushes to fit most of the popular calibers and a handy storage tray for the graphite and brushes.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=197010

SL1 · November 23, 2009, 09:30 AM

I have plenty of Federal .270 Winchester brass that I bought as loaded ammo. It seems a little softer than my Winchester brass. I tend to reload it hot for a few times, then use it for lighter loads thereafter. It seems to last a LONG time for me.

When I size it (and other brass), I clean and lube it on the outside and use graphite in the neck. (I just use a Q-tip and some graphite intended for key locks.) Never had any problems sizing.

One thing you might check on your cases is whether there is any asphalt type sealant left in the case mouths. If so, clean it out with acetone.

SL1

Christchild · November 23, 2009, 10:06 AM

My Process/Procedure for Prepping every piece of Rifle brass to come to my bench... And I mean every piece!

*Range Brass... They're tumbled for 10-15 minutes to remove possible grit, sand/dirt. Every piece is wiped clean as they come out of the Tumbler, then seperated by Headstamp.

*The only case lubes I use are Imperial Powdered Graphite and Imperial Sizing Wax.

*I "dip" the case neck into the Dry Lube (powdered graphite) then wipe the dry lube off of the outside of the case neck... Apply the Sizing Wax to the entire outside of the case (when FL sizing) (lube only the neck and shoulder when Neck Sizing).

*Full Length Size the case... Wipe the majority of the lube (wax) off.

*Clean the primer pocket (RCBS Primer Pocket brush).

*Trim to the Trim-To Length (Lyman Universal Trimmer)... 2.530" for .270 Winchester.

*Chamfer and Deburr the inside/outside of the case neck (typical chamfer/deburr tool).

*Deburr the inside of the Flash Hole (Lyman Flash Hole Uniformer).

*Then the Now-Prepped cases go into the Tumbler for 1 1/2 to 2 hours, and are each wiped clean of the fine dust as they come out of the Tumbler.

When my cases come out of the Tumbler after this thorough prep, they're as good as they can be. But, Gentlemen, what I'm about to say, may be the death of this Thread...ahem...here goes...

I made a mistake. I have a Lyman T-Mag II Turret press. I did something yesterday, after I prepped the Remington cases, right before I prepped the Federals, that I've never done before... The T-Mag has a "post" on the rear of the press, that aids in support (of the Turret) against the force of the Ram. I adjusted the "support post" up so it held a little upward pressure on the back of the Turret. I adjusted it too high, to the point that it slightly angled the Turret...the Turret wasn't square with the body of the press and the Ram.

This caused the Turret and Die to be out-of-line with the Ram. As the cases came back out (Ram Down Stroke), the Expander Ball wasn't passing through, straight. After I posted this Thread (and in my "slight" aggitation), I thought about every step I'd made...what did I do different?! After backing the post off, then adjusting it back up, By Hand this time (just enough so the Post TOUCHED the Turret, not "lifting up" on it), then tightening the Lock Nut........Everything smoothed out. All the Federal cases that had been put through, went BACK through, to TRY to avoid crooked cases and Bad Runout, and they ALL went through as they normally do.......Like BUTTA!

So, it was MY Mistake, and Problem solved. Thank You, Bro's, for Your input and Generous Help.

SL1 · November 23, 2009, 11:39 AM

for posting the resolution of this thread.

So many people post something on this forum and then NEVER come back and tell us how they resolved it. I guess they are too busy or too embarrassed. But, those resolutions are what the rest of us can really learn from. Since we try to help the OPs, I think they really should return the favor and post their resolutions. Too many don't do that, but YOU did. So, I really mean it when I say thank you.

SL1

Christchild · November 23, 2009, 01:10 PM

I think it's the LEAST anyone can do, afterall, this is a Discussion. OP's are posted, and many Goodhearted, experienced and knowledgeable Men and Women discuss an issue, lending HELP, more times than not.

Mistakes are made from time to time. The ONLY way to NOT make any mistakes is to not do anything. It's just that much better of a day when the mistakes don't cause damage and/or harm. And that said, those of us that make mistakes should NOT be embarrassed to admit it, even openly. Learn from mistakes, and be Thankful that You're Blessed to be able to do things, because if You weren't Blessed, You couldn't do anything, therefor couldn't make mistakes...Let's just try to keep mistakes to a minimum.

And as You said, SL1, resolutions can be beneficial, and usually are.

Thank You all, and You're very Welcome.

November 22, 2009, 06:06 PM	#1
Christchild Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2009 Location: Loadbenchville, Bolt 02770 Posts: 544	What's Your Experience with Federal Rifle Brass? After a search of the "Handloading & Reloading" Forum, I was UNable to locate any information on the problem I'm having, so I'm starting this Thread. I'm in the process of Prepping the Federal Headstamp .270 Win. cases that were in the 144 pieces of Once Fired brass that arrived Thursday last week. There were 71 pieces of Remington, which are now prepped. All the Remingtons went through the FL Size Die with no problems. Out of 22 pieces of Federal, 4-5 have been very tough on the Ram "Down Stroke", as the Expander Ball comes back through. 1 piece had such a solid grip on the Expander Ball that it pulled the Zip Spindle THROUGH the Collet's Threads. (Hornady CGND FL Size Die) These Federal cases look like Once Fired factory brass, not Handloads that will work harden through successive firings, like we all know they will. In the unlikely event (unlikely, in MY opinion) that they ARE Work Hardened Handloads, the Handloader has not trimmed them back to length, because the "rough" Case Mouth Edge or Rim is still "Factory Rough", so I definitely believe these to be Once Fired. Has anyone had any similar experiences with Federal brass??? Thanks In Advance!!!

November 22, 2009, 08:41 PM	#6
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	+1FALphil Ditto. I've found WW brass to be the toughest, but it's hard to find now.

November 22, 2009, 11:16 PM	#8
UniversalFrost Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,300	never had a problem with federal to date. in fact I really like the nikel plated from them. I use federal for most of my plinking brass and get same number of reloads with it versus the other major makers. If I load hot, the federl just like all the other makers will wear out sooner. JOE __________________ Lifetime member VFW and NRA "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (when all else fails play dead) -Red Green

November 23, 2009, 02:16 AM	#10
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	My top .270 load.... ....uses Federal brass. I've had primers pockets get loose after 2 firings; but they were smokin'-hot loads, [I've had Hornady's 140 grainers clocked @ 3,285]. But reading through the original post it seems like the inside of the offending cases necks weren't prepped properly. I find that the inside surface of the case neck should be brushed and lightly lubed before sizing. You can use a case-neck brush made just for this. What I do is chuck up a bronze .30 caliber bore brush into my cordless drill and grab a handful of cases and give 'em all a quick pass through with the drill on high speed. Next step is to take a .270 bore mop lightly lubed with sizing lube and pass it through each case by hand then follow the usual sizing procedure. I trim my .270 cases after every sizing. If you don't want to be bothered to trim your cases, just use .30-'06 cases. They're just a little shorter and when sized to .270 you might never have to trim them. I use a lot of '06 brass and I don't think it makes a bit of difference at 100 yards. All my 300 yard+ ammo is on Federal .270 brass. I hope this helps.

November 23, 2009, 09:16 AM	#11
UniversalFrost Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,300	as far as lubing the inside of the case mouth, try out the frankford arsenal graphite lube kit, it comes with brushes to fit most of the popular calibers and a handy storage tray for the graphite and brushes. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=197010 __________________ Lifetime member VFW and NRA "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (when all else fails play dead) -Red Green

November 22, 2009, 06:37 PM	#2
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	I have a lot of 30-06 and 6 MM REM Federal and I have never had a problem with Federal brass like your describing. Have you checked the thickness of the case mouth?

November 22, 2009, 07:00 PM	#3
cornbush Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: The retarded place below Idaho Posts: 1,408	I have a fair amount of Federal 270 brass and have never had a problem. I have heard guys say the primer pocket can stretch out earlier on Federal brass, but I have never had it happen.

November 22, 2009, 07:11 PM	#5
FALPhil Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2007 Location: Racoon City Posts: 934	In my experience, Federal brass tends to be soft, resulting in expanded primer pockets after 3-4 full power loads. Remington and Winchester brass seems to be tougher. Lately, the Remington brass has been pretty good.

November 22, 2009, 09:12 PM	#7
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Just to make sure, your saying that the Federal and the Rem were measureing 0.013 to .014. I just went out and checked a couple of my federal 30-06 and 6mm rem and all were 0.014 to .015. These have all been fired a couple of times but I also have some Remengtion 6mm brass new and it also measured the same as the federal.

November 23, 2009, 12:04 AM	#9
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	My experience mimics Phil's. I find Federal to be soft at the head-end, and brittle at the case mouth after 2-3 firings. I don't think they anneal the necks at all. I'm at the point where I treat my existing lots of Federal brass the same as a box of Wolf steel case: The next time any of it gets loaded up... it's getting left behind for someone else to have headaches with. I've been happiest with Remington over the last couple years.

November 23, 2009, 09:30 AM	#12
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	I have plenty of Federal .270 Winchester brass that I bought as loaded ammo. It seems a little softer than my Winchester brass. I tend to reload it hot for a few times, then use it for lighter loads thereafter. It seems to last a LONG time for me. When I size it (and other brass), I clean and lube it on the outside and use graphite in the neck. (I just use a Q-tip and some graphite intended for key locks.) Never had any problems sizing. One thing you might check on your cases is whether there is any asphalt type sealant left in the case mouths. If so, clean it out with acetone. SL1 Last edited by SL1; November 23, 2009 at 11:33 AM.

November 23, 2009, 10:06 AM	#13
Christchild Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2009 Location: Loadbenchville, Bolt 02770 Posts: 544	My Process/Procedure for Prepping every piece of Rifle brass to come to my bench... And I mean every piece! Range Brass... They're tumbled for 10-15 minutes to remove possible grit, sand/dirt. Every piece is wiped clean as they come out of the Tumbler, then seperated by Headstamp. The only case lubes I use are Imperial Powdered Graphite and Imperial Sizing Wax. I "dip" the case neck into the Dry Lube (powdered graphite) then wipe the dry lube off of the outside of the case neck... Apply the Sizing Wax to the entire outside of the case (when FL sizing) (lube only the neck and shoulder when Neck Sizing). Full Length Size the case... Wipe the majority of the lube (wax) off. Clean the primer pocket (RCBS Primer Pocket brush). Trim to the Trim-To Length (Lyman Universal Trimmer)... 2.530" for .270 Winchester. Chamfer and Deburr the inside/outside of the case neck (typical chamfer/deburr tool). Deburr the inside of the Flash Hole (Lyman Flash Hole Uniformer). *Then the Now-Prepped cases go into the Tumbler for 1 1/2 to 2 hours, and are each wiped clean of the fine dust as they come out of the Tumbler. When my cases come out of the Tumbler after this thorough prep, they're as good as they can be. But, Gentlemen, what I'm about to say, may be the death of this Thread...ahem...here goes... I made a mistake. I have a Lyman T-Mag II Turret press. I did something yesterday, after I prepped the Remington cases, right before I prepped the Federals, that I've never done before... The T-Mag has a "post" on the rear of the press, that aids in support (of the Turret) against the force of the Ram. I adjusted the "support post" up so it held a little upward pressure on the back of the Turret. I adjusted it too high, to the point that it slightly angled the Turret...the Turret wasn't square with the body of the press and the Ram. This caused the Turret and Die to be out-of-line with the Ram. As the cases came back out (Ram Down Stroke), the Expander Ball wasn't passing through, straight. After I posted this Thread (and in my "slight" aggitation), I thought about every step I'd made...what did I do different?! After backing the post off, then adjusting it back up, By Hand this time (just enough so the Post TOUCHED the Turret, not "lifting up" on it), then tightening the Lock Nut........Everything smoothed out. All the Federal cases that had been put through, went BACK through, to TRY to avoid crooked cases and Bad Runout, and they ALL went through as they normally do.......Like BUTTA! So, it was MY Mistake, and Problem solved. Thank You, Bro's, for Your input and Generous Help.

November 23, 2009, 11:39 AM	#14
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Thank you Christchild for posting the resolution of this thread. So many people post something on this forum and then NEVER come back and tell us how they resolved it. I guess they are too busy or too embarrassed. But, those resolutions are what the rest of us can really learn from. Since we try to help the OPs, I think they really should return the favor and post their resolutions. Too many don't do that, but YOU did. So, I really mean it when I say thank you. SL1

November 23, 2009, 01:10 PM	#15
Christchild Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2009 Location: Loadbenchville, Bolt 02770 Posts: 544	You're very, VERY Welcome! I think it's the LEAST anyone can do, afterall, this is a Discussion. OP's are posted, and many Goodhearted, experienced and knowledgeable Men and Women discuss an issue, lending HELP, more times than not. Mistakes are made from time to time. The ONLY way to NOT make any mistakes is to not do anything. It's just that much better of a day when the mistakes don't cause damage and/or harm. And that said, those of us that make mistakes should NOT be embarrassed to admit it, even openly. Learn from mistakes, and be Thankful that You're Blessed to be able to do things, because if You weren't Blessed, You couldn't do anything, therefor couldn't make mistakes...Let's just try to keep mistakes to a minimum. And as You said, SL1, resolutions can be beneficial, and usually are. Thank You all, and You're very Welcome. Last edited by Christchild; November 24, 2009 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Spelling/Typo