Cleaner powder for .45?

AustinMike · November 27, 2004, 12:15 PM

What's the cleanest burning powder out there for .45? I've tried Bullseye, AA #5, and I'm currently using 231. The load I've been shooting (5.1 gr. with 230 RN Rainier TCJ) tends to leave a light dusting of powder on my forearms after an afternoon of shooting. Anything cleaner or more efficiently burning? Or is this perhaps a case of not tightly crimping enough? I use a Dillon taper crimp die, separate from seating operation.

hatchet · November 27, 2004, 01:36 PM

I never could stand 231. I use Blue Dot with excellent results.

Jim Watson · November 27, 2004, 01:46 PM

I load Clays for clean-burning light loads for my revolver. It is a fast-burning powder and may not make it to a full power hardball load before it reaches maximum pressure. Read the book.
Vihtavuori N310 is another fast, clean, powder. N320 is better suited to hardball and will probably burn cleaner than 231.

IceMan_1 · November 27, 2004, 10:08 PM

I second the Clays , I switched from Bullseye .

WESHOOT2 · November 28, 2004, 08:38 AM

WST, Nitro 100, 700X, Power Pistol......

AustinMike · November 28, 2004, 02:39 PM

Am I correct in assuming that by "Clays" ya'll are talking about Hodgdon Clays? I was looking at the Vihtavuori site and found this burn chart. Looks like a good reference!

http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com/chartVihta.asp

Jim Watson · November 28, 2004, 04:49 PM

Hodgdon Clays, yes.
Do read the label and the manual.
Hodgdon sells "Clays", "International Clays", and "Universal Clays."
They are not the same.
Just plain Clays is a very fast burning powder, not the one to use if you want high velocity, but it burns clean in light to medium loads.
Universal Clays is very close to Unique. It is cleaner burning than Unique, but not a lot until you get close to maximum loads.
I haven't seen any pistol data for International Clays .

There seems to be a good deal of confusion over the different Clays powders and Hodgdon probably should not have used the same name on three different products. But nobody seems to have the same difficulty telling the difference between Red Dot, Green Dot, and Blue Dot.

Bob Thompson · November 29, 2004, 01:41 PM

I second and third the motion for "Universal" Clays. From the manuals and my personal experiance; very adaptable to most pistol calibers, even close to max. loads then a more slow burning powder would be appropriate. Fairly inexpensive and a little goes a long way for target power loads. Changed from Unique many years ago. The two are very close in burning rate but Clays is cleaner. My second choice for some non-magnum +P loads is Power Pistol.

HSMITH · November 30, 2004, 10:27 AM

Clays, as has been mentioned is superb for low and midrange loads, nothing cleaner IMO. Universal Clays cleans up nicely toward the top end of the range, and is DEAD CLEAN in higher pressure rounds like 9mm and 40. Power Pistol is VERY clean at the mid and upper ranges of 45 acp loads, accurate and consistent too. IMR 4756 is pretty clean, about like Universal.

Nnobby45 · November 30, 2004, 08:00 PM

NO on the heavier crimp. A taper crimp is supposed to straighten out the case mouth and apply a little pressure. I load 230 ball, and plated ammo with 5.7 gr. of W231 for about 780 fps from a 5" pistol. Your 5.1 grs. seems pretty light, though I know some manuals recommend it. Lots of powder can vary, burning rate wise, so go up a little at a time. I use assorted range brass and WSP primers.

Ala Dan · December 1, 2004, 05:05 AM

Another "Universal Clays" user checking in; boy do I like this stuff
or what? I have found it very clean burning in magnum handgun loads,
as well as the .45 ACP.

Best Wishes,

tulsamal · December 3, 2004, 08:34 PM

My "standard" .45 ACP load behind a 230 grain FMJ bullet is 8.5 grains of AA #5. It has worked so well for me that I've never gotten around to trying anything else!

Gregg

TacticalReload · December 10, 2004, 11:40 AM

I've now switched from Bullseye to plain-ol' Clays for my .45 acp, .45 colt, and .45 schofield rounds. Someone suggested Titewad as a clean buring powder but I found that it was dirty when loaded light.

I still use Bullseye for .38sp and 9mm loads.

When I want HOT, I go for the Power Pistol in non-magnum loads, 2400 in the magnum loads, and Lil'Gun and a magnum primer for my .45 colt "Ruger Only" loads.

AustinMike · December 10, 2004, 11:51 AM

Looks like a big consensus on Clays. I think I'll grab some at the next gun show. Thanks, ya'll!

Mattio67 · December 10, 2004, 12:30 PM

I didn't know you could reload for handgun with titewad. I just bought a big jug
for my 12 gauge loads. I'm thinking of reloading for my .45 anyone have loading data for titewad .45acp ? Thanks Matt

TacticalReload · December 10, 2004, 12:44 PM

Lemme see what I can find in the Hodgdon manual. I might have been using TITEGROUP instead... but Titewad is a very fast burning powder that might be suitable for use in light loads.

Nnobby45 · December 17, 2004, 06:53 AM

I'm a W231 fan. It just meters so well in my Dillon 550B and handles loads from 185 thru 230 very well. I've found it to be reasonably clean, and different lots seem to be very consistent.

AustinMike · December 18, 2004, 06:26 PM

OK, I grabbed a can of Hodgdon Clays today to try out. Can't complain about price, the stuff is cheap! They list 4.0 grains for 230 gr FMJ on their site. Does that sound about right or does anybody have suggestions for use with a 230 grain plated bullet (Rainier). I'm just going for a clean target load. Thanks!

rwilson452 · December 18, 2004, 11:29 PM

My Hodgdon's 26th edition lists 3.8-4.7 grains for a jacketed 230 gr bullet

a later annual from Hodgdon list 3.7-4.0

My Sierra edition V doesn't list Clays

Lee Manual agrees with Hodgons 26th edition

I would go with the latest info. 4.0 tops.

I would start at 3.7gr and see how it works and progress slowly upward.

HSMITH · December 19, 2004, 10:41 PM

Mike, I won't tell you about the Lee manual and the listing for 4.7 grains of Clays under a 230 FMJ

but I will tell you 4 grains is a full power loading and has plenty of pressure. It is a good clean burning and accurate load for me, and I have shot literally thousands and thousands at 4 grains.

Lycanthrope · December 19, 2004, 10:53 PM

3.8gr of Clays at 1.25 OAL will just make 725fps out a 5" 1911 (Kimber and 230gr RN) with LEAD bullets. With Raniers it will be a very soft shooter, but on the light side.

4 grains under the Ranier is a good place to start.

ZWolfgang · December 25, 2004, 05:44 AM

Austin Mike... I think it is Hodgdon "UNIVERSAL Clays", not Hodgdon "Clays" that so many are excited about. Easy to get the two confused and that could be a real problem. Just be sure which you've got.

BTW, PowerPistol is a very clean burning and nice metering powder which develops very healthy power! I'm currently using it for my .357 defense load in my 3" S&W & Ruger revolvers.... 140 gr. Speer JHP with 9.5 gr. PowerPistol and Federal Gold Match Standard primers. Gives me 1161 fps from a 3" tube! Clean, efficient, and a bright white flash.

AustinMike · December 25, 2004, 10:27 AM

Yeah, folks have been throwing both Clays varieties out in this thread. Since my goal is a real clean .45 target load, I picked up a bottle of Clays (not Universal - thanks to Jim Watson for the clarification.) The loads listed in the thread (~4gr.) are definitely Clays, not Universal Clays. According to burn charts, Universal is kind of middle of the road, like Unique. If burn rate is any indication of cleanliness (I don't know for sure that it is), I wouldn't expect Universal to be any cleaner than the 231 I've currently been using. Plain Clays looks to be one of the fastest burning powders. I'm going to load up a few this weekend with Clays and see how that goes.

WESHOOT2 · December 26, 2004, 10:27 AM

"Burn rate" has absolutely nothing to do with cleanliness; zero.

Hodgdon Universal Clays lays over Unique on the 'chart', but is radically cleaner-burning than Unique.

AustinMike · December 26, 2004, 11:40 AM

I guess burn 'efficiency' is more the issue. Apart from the grime left in the gun, it's the particles of unburned powder that end up on my hands and forearms that bothers me with some powders. So, I theorized that a more fast and efficient burner would help alleviate this. But, I don't yet understand all the science of powders, so I could be way off base.

November 27, 2004, 12:15 PM	#1
AustinMike Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 171	Cleaner powder for .45? What's the cleanest burning powder out there for .45? I've tried Bullseye, AA #5, and I'm currently using 231. The load I've been shooting (5.1 gr. with 230 RN Rainier TCJ) tends to leave a light dusting of powder on my forearms after an afternoon of shooting. Anything cleaner or more efficiently burning? Or is this perhaps a case of not tightly crimping enough? I use a Dillon taper crimp die, separate from seating operation. Last edited by AustinMike; November 27, 2004 at 02:11 PM.

November 28, 2004, 02:39 PM	#6
AustinMike Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 171	Clays? Am I correct in assuming that by "Clays" ya'll are talking about Hodgdon Clays? I was looking at the Vihtavuori site and found this burn chart. Looks like a good reference! http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com/chartVihta.asp

December 10, 2004, 11:40 AM	#13
TacticalReload Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2001 Posts: 119	I've now switched from Bullseye to plain-ol' Clays for my .45 acp, .45 colt, and .45 schofield rounds. Someone suggested Titewad as a clean buring powder but I found that it was dirty when loaded light. I still use Bullseye for .38sp and 9mm loads. When I want HOT, I go for the Power Pistol in non-magnum loads, 2400 in the magnum loads, and Lil'Gun and a magnum primer for my .45 colt "Ruger Only" loads. __________________ ------ Steve Fuller [email protected]

December 10, 2004, 12:30 PM	#15
Mattio67 Member Join Date: December 1, 2004 Posts: 28	titewad I didn't know you could reload for handgun with titewad. I just bought a big jug for my 12 gauge loads. I'm thinking of reloading for my .45 anyone have loading data for titewad .45acp ? Thanks Matt

December 10, 2004, 12:44 PM	#16
TacticalReload Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2001 Posts: 119	Lemme see what I can find in the Hodgdon manual. I might have been using TITEGROUP instead... but Titewad is a very fast burning powder that might be suitable for use in light loads. __________________ ------ Steve Fuller [email protected]

November 27, 2004, 01:36 PM	#2
hatchet Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2004 Location: Montana Posts: 226	I never could stand 231. I use Blue Dot with excellent results.

November 27, 2004, 01:46 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	I load Clays for clean-burning light loads for my revolver. It is a fast-burning powder and may not make it to a full power hardball load before it reaches maximum pressure. Read the book. Vihtavuori N310 is another fast, clean, powder. N320 is better suited to hardball and will probably burn cleaner than 231.

November 27, 2004, 10:08 PM	#4
IceMan_1 Junior Member Join Date: November 16, 2004 Posts: 6	I second the Clays , I switched from Bullseye .

November 28, 2004, 08:38 AM	#5
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	and WST, Nitro 100, 700X, Power Pistol...... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

November 28, 2004, 04:49 PM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Hodgdon Clays, yes. Do read the label and the manual. Hodgdon sells "Clays", "International Clays", and "Universal Clays." They are not the same. Just plain Clays is a very fast burning powder, not the one to use if you want high velocity, but it burns clean in light to medium loads. Universal Clays is very close to Unique. It is cleaner burning than Unique, but not a lot until you get close to maximum loads. I haven't seen any pistol data for International Clays . There seems to be a good deal of confusion over the different Clays powders and Hodgdon probably should not have used the same name on three different products. But nobody seems to have the same difficulty telling the difference between Red Dot, Green Dot, and Blue Dot.

November 29, 2004, 01:41 PM	#8
Bob Thompson Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1998 Location: riverdale,ut,usa Posts: 136	I second and third the motion for "Universal" Clays. From the manuals and my personal experiance; very adaptable to most pistol calibers, even close to max. loads then a more slow burning powder would be appropriate. Fairly inexpensive and a little goes a long way for target power loads. Changed from Unique many years ago. The two are very close in burning rate but Clays is cleaner. My second choice for some non-magnum +P loads is Power Pistol.

November 30, 2004, 10:27 AM	#9
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Clays, as has been mentioned is superb for low and midrange loads, nothing cleaner IMO. Universal Clays cleans up nicely toward the top end of the range, and is DEAD CLEAN in higher pressure rounds like 9mm and 40. Power Pistol is VERY clean at the mid and upper ranges of 45 acp loads, accurate and consistent too. IMR 4756 is pretty clean, about like Universal.

November 30, 2004, 08:00 PM	#10
Nnobby45 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2004 Posts: 3,150	NO on the heavier crimp. A taper crimp is supposed to straighten out the case mouth and apply a little pressure. I load 230 ball, and plated ammo with 5.7 gr. of W231 for about 780 fps from a 5" pistol. Your 5.1 grs. seems pretty light, though I know some manuals recommend it. Lots of powder can vary, burning rate wise, so go up a little at a time. I use assorted range brass and WSP primers.

December 1, 2004, 05:05 AM	#11
Ala Dan Member in memoriam Join Date: August 13, 1999 Location: In The HOT, Humid, and Mu Posts: 6,116	Another "Universal Clays" user checking in; boy do I like this stuff or what? I have found it very clean burning in magnum handgun loads, as well as the .45 ACP. Best Wishes,

December 3, 2004, 08:34 PM	#12
tulsamal Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Vinita, OK Posts: 2,552	My "standard" .45 ACP load behind a 230 grain FMJ bullet is 8.5 grains of AA #5. It has worked so well for me that I've never gotten around to trying anything else! Gregg

December 10, 2004, 11:51 AM	#14
AustinMike Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 171	Looks like a big consensus on Clays. I think I'll grab some at the next gun show. Thanks, ya'll!

December 17, 2004, 06:53 AM	#17
Nnobby45 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2004 Posts: 3,150	I'm a W231 fan. It just meters so well in my Dillon 550B and handles loads from 185 thru 230 very well. I've found it to be reasonably clean, and different lots seem to be very consistent.

December 18, 2004, 06:26 PM	#18
AustinMike Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 171	Clays load for 230 plated OK, I grabbed a can of Hodgdon Clays today to try out. Can't complain about price, the stuff is cheap! They list 4.0 grains for 230 gr FMJ on their site. Does that sound about right or does anybody have suggestions for use with a 230 grain plated bullet (Rainier). I'm just going for a clean target load. Thanks!

December 18, 2004, 11:29 PM	#19
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	45ACP and Clays My Hodgdon's 26th edition lists 3.8-4.7 grains for a jacketed 230 gr bullet a later annual from Hodgdon list 3.7-4.0 My Sierra edition V doesn't list Clays Lee Manual agrees with Hodgons 26th edition I would go with the latest info. 4.0 tops. I would start at 3.7gr and see how it works and progress slowly upward.

December 19, 2004, 10:41 PM	#20
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Mike, I won't tell you about the Lee manual and the listing for 4.7 grains of Clays under a 230 FMJ but I will tell you 4 grains is a full power loading and has plenty of pressure. It is a good clean burning and accurate load for me, and I have shot literally thousands and thousands at 4 grains.

December 19, 2004, 10:53 PM	#21
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	3.8gr of Clays at 1.25 OAL will just make 725fps out a 5" 1911 (Kimber and 230gr RN) with LEAD bullets. With Raniers it will be a very soft shooter, but on the light side. 4 grains under the Ranier is a good place to start.

December 25, 2004, 05:44 AM	#22
ZWolfgang Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 254	Austin Mike... I think it is Hodgdon "UNIVERSAL Clays", not Hodgdon "Clays" that so many are excited about. Easy to get the two confused and that could be a real problem. Just be sure which you've got. BTW, PowerPistol is a very clean burning and nice metering powder which develops very healthy power! I'm currently using it for my .357 defense load in my 3" S&W & Ruger revolvers.... 140 gr. Speer JHP with 9.5 gr. PowerPistol and Federal Gold Match Standard primers. Gives me 1161 fps from a 3" tube! Clean, efficient, and a bright white flash.

December 25, 2004, 10:27 AM	#23
AustinMike Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 171	Yeah, folks have been throwing both Clays varieties out in this thread. Since my goal is a real clean .45 target load, I picked up a bottle of Clays (not Universal - thanks to Jim Watson for the clarification.) The loads listed in the thread (~4gr.) are definitely Clays, not Universal Clays. According to burn charts, Universal is kind of middle of the road, like Unique. If burn rate is any indication of cleanliness (I don't know for sure that it is), I wouldn't expect Universal to be any cleaner than the 231 I've currently been using. Plain Clays looks to be one of the fastest burning powders. I'm going to load up a few this weekend with Clays and see how that goes.

December 26, 2004, 10:27 AM	#24
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	burnt "Burn rate" has absolutely nothing to do with cleanliness; zero. Hodgdon Universal Clays lays over Unique on the 'chart', but is radically cleaner-burning than Unique. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

December 26, 2004, 11:40 AM	#25
AustinMike Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 171	I guess burn 'efficiency' is more the issue. Apart from the grime left in the gun, it's the particles of unburned powder that end up on my hands and forearms that bothers me with some powders. So, I theorized that a more fast and efficient burner would help alleviate this. But, I don't yet understand all the science of powders, so I could be way off base.

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