Best Up close Bear/Boar Gun?

[Zorro]

Two Candidates come to mind.

1. Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70.

2. Remington 870 12 Gauge, 18 inch with Ghost ring sites, Loaded up with Brenneke slugs.

I don't have #1 but I do and have used #2.

What can the Guide gun do that the Shotgun can't?

?

[Al Thompson]

Both good choices as you mention. The Marlin is simpler to scope and has a bit longer range. Slugs get unstable past 125 yards, in my experiance.

A Marlin .45-70 with a scout scope isin my future.

[H&H,hunter]

Both are fine choices,
The 45/70 has a bit of a reach advantage on the Shotgun.

[Dr.Rob]

I can use either, I'd pick the shotgun. Why? Its lighter to carry around all day, and I can't STAND that $#@^&%$ "safety" on the new Marlins.

(show me another safety that lets you drop the hammer and go CLICK)

Plus, I hunt with a shotgun more often than a lever gun.

Up close you don't need a scope.

[Pampers]

I have a '98 Mauser in .30-06 with a 17" barrel that's my "hog" gun. Plus it accepts a 17" bayonet for up close and personal!

[H&H,hunter]

Dr Rob,
I must dissagree with the info on your post,
A Guide rifle weighs just under 7Lbs most 10 year old girls can carry that all day.

The safety problem is a 20second fix While I can't publicly elaborate all one needs to disable that horrible device is a flat balde screw driver and a small allan wrench. It's pretty obvious once you take the buttstock off.

I must agree with you on the scope issue only heritics and demecrats put scopes on Lever guns. Absoloute blasphmey.

The thrid and most important reason to carry a lever gun over a shotgun it makes you look cool

P.S.

The S&W model 469 (I Believe it is) has a safety bar much like a modern Marlin which allows the hammer to drop onto a bar and go clikck with the safety engaged. There I showed you one.

[labgrade]

But Zorro asked about a close-in shooter. I'd see that as under 50 yards, & maybe quite a bit closer.

I've a total 2 shots out of a level-gun - 2X out of a .30-30 way back in years, & can't see any advantage to that action over a pump - guess I could be swayed after some more familiarity with that action ... I guess. (same-same for the .30-30, or .45-70, ... yeah, "good enough" somewhere in there, but still, why even bother when there's so many better - same for the lever action - again, I guess I could be swayed, but why bother when there's o may that's better?)

Can't see how a lever could be faster, or provide anything with more umph than a pump 12 w/slugs as a close-in anything, & plenty that'll do the job "out there."

I'm a die-hard 870-guy & do tend towards a 760 pump .30-06/.308 for "close-in"/quick(er) rifle-stuff.

Always willing to learn though. Convince me otherwise .... for discussion purposes.

[H&H,hunter]

Well,
If a guy knows how to use a lever gun he isn't giving anything up in speed to a pump gun. So it all boils down to personal preference. They both weigh about the same and they both carry well. the only advantage to a lever gun is what's already been said about range.

[Dr.Rob]

Really my Dad got into buying 45-70's lately. Including the guide gun. Its a niece piece, I just hate the safety. The weight isn't that bad but I also HATE the ported barrel, just makes more noise.

And labgrade, my dad hunts with a Remington 760 carbine, know why? It works JUST like an 870. Dad used his on a Russian Wild Boar hunt. Shot it with a 165 gr sierra game king quartering head-on. Bullet with between the neck and shoulder, exited through the opposite ribs and got through both lungs in the process. The pig was dead right there, dropped as if pole-axed.

And my first hunting rifle, a marlin 30-30, did havbe a scope. But that was a deer rifle, not a dedicated up close and personal hog-smacker. It also didn't have that PC-lawyer-friendly %%$#& safety. And back then my dream rifle was a Savage pump action 30-30.

On another note You should SEE the looks I get sighting my slug gun in at the range. This is Colorado, NOBODY hunts with a slug gun here. Once when stopped by the game warden with shotgun in hand, he remarked "Bear hunting?" "Nope, Elk" I replied. He shook his head and looked at me as if I was from MARS (or some other place back east). Well, he didn't know I was busting jack pines and heavy timber.

[Crimper-D]

A little BSA Monarch featherweight in 30-06. Ideal brush rifle, scoped, but has see-through mounts for the iron sights. This little rifle weighs less than a Guide Gun, weight counts when you are in brush and Fall heat. Gotten 2 boar with it.
Oh yea, not to knock the 45-70, my first pig was taken with a Trapdoor Springfield ! ... But I was younger and stronger then
Old and crafty and has brought home more bacon.

All of the pigs were shot between 50 & 80yds.

[labgrade]

I sounded snooty previously - sorry.

Anyway, I'd give the .45-70 the range aspect, but still - gotta have my pumps. & too, with some of the newer sabot slugs, I'd think they're at least knockin' on the door of a .45-70's range advantage.

Dr., my first couple elk were with that .30-06 760 carbine - just a natural extension after 870s. Fine, accurate shooter.

[bigdaddycool]

450 marlin. bdc

[lilbiggun]

I use my co-pilot in 45/70 most of the times for defense while hiking. At alittle under 6lbs its great to carry. and packs a hell of a punch. I agree with H&H with practice a lever can be very fast.

[short shot]

I would go with the 45-70

[SteelyDan]

I started camping in bear country with my family about three years ago, and had the same question. I researched the question quite a bit at the time, and I remember the split between the shotgun faction and the big rifle faction. In the end, I decided to get a .45-70. There's no way I can even try to summarize all the pro's and con's I read about; I'm just telling you what I dd.

[12-34hom]

I'd have to go with a 10 or 12 guage in a 3 1/2 inch chamber with some heavy buckshot loads for up close work = 25 yards or less.

Breneke slugs out to 100 yards.

Anything further = rifle.

12-34hom.

[labgrade]

Can't argue with either/or, too just mentioning what I went with.

I'll still sold on the pump, probablly more to do with what I'm comfortable with/have experience with. 12 gauge within 75 yards & a 760 .308/.30-06 further out. Any questions & it'd be the pump rifle.

& too, something about those 3.5" 12 gauges+ - they have such a back-punch that personally, I can't shoot as accurately or fast as I can with the 2-3/4s (which do a dandy job already). The whole idea of a "repeater" is to allow really fast follow-ups (needed or not) & I can't with the "bigguns." An ounce-load of .73 caliber at 1600 fps or a 180 at 2600 allows me to be right there, & fast. Past that & I'm a whimp.

Do wish I had the past experience to try out levers more. Seem some pretty phenominally quick shooters with 'em - just never done it myself.

[Warriorsociologist]

Until I get my new toy - either an M1A or an AR-10 A2 carb. - it will be my Rem 870.... I am leaning on the M1A with a med. wieght 18" NM barrel. IMO, this would be a GREAT up-close bear/hog/etc. gun. Hmmm... 10-20rds of semi-auto .308 on call....who can argue with that???

[Mannlicher]

Mannlicher-Schoenauer 1908 full length stocked carbine, with double set triggers. 8X57 Mauser chambering. 220 grain Sierras over 41 grains of IMR 4064. This load runs about 2500 fps from my Mannlicher. I have not had a pig yet, that took a step after being hit.

The little carbine comes to the shoulder like a fine shotgun. I have a Redfield 5 Star, 2X7 20mm Scope mounted. I think that this is the ideal hog rifle. No bolt action in the world is faster, or slicker to operate than a Mannlicher.

[Preacherman]

Both good choices. My first choice would be the Guide Gun in .45-70 with the Garrett Hammerhead load. A word of warning about the shotgun slugs: Brenneke's are definitely the way to go, but they lose effectiveness on bears outside 50 yards or so. I'd strongly recommend their use for up-close-and-personal stuff only. Their very wide diameter slows down and limits penetration through bone and heavy muscle after they lose velocity.

For those who don't like the noise and porting on the short barrel of the Guide Gun, Marlin makes the 1895 in a "Cowboy" model with a 26" non-ported octagonal barrel and full-length magazine. Heavier, of course, but this helps with recoil (particularly if Hammerheads or other "max" loads are used), and gives greater magazine capacity (I think they hold 7 or 8 rounds). This would be a superb bear gun, and would work just fine on even the biggest hogs - but the greater length and weight up front might slow down a fast swing on a moving target. A friend of mine bought one of these and cut the barrel and magazine tube back to 22" for faster handling. I've fired it, and it works great. I think I see one of these in my future... might even trade in my Guide Gun on one.

[V.Oller]

Well for a bit now I've been using and older straight stock Marlin .45-70 and I've had good luck with it. With practice (as with everything) you can get very fast with a lever gun.

I have to admit that lately I've used a Glock 23 loaded with 180 Gr. Gold Sabers as a hog stopper. One shot stops too.

[H&H,hunter]

Preacherman,
I've got a 26" cowboy gun that I just chopped to 22" in 45-70. I like it so much and it is so accurate that I sold off my guide gun imediatley. It is so much more pleasant to shoot with out the porting. And by the way it is actually lighter than a guide gun to start with. Even sawed off it holds 7 up and one in. Just an unbelievably cool little light wieght heavy hitter. Great Elk, Bear, Hog, Deer, gun. Chopped down it's a swell saddle gun as well.

Mine is shooting into 2" at a hundered with ghost ring sights.

[Preacherman]

Hi, H&H. (With all those H's floating around, I guess I could have been more original than to start with "Hi"!) You've helped make my mind up... after trying out my friend's gun, and hearing your feedback, come September, I'm buying one! I'll get Clark Custom Guns up near Shreveport to do the shortening and an action job (if you ever need a lever-action smoothing out, they do a great job!), and I'll have it in the woods come November. Here's anticipatin'!

[H&H,hunter]

Preacherman,
You won't be disapointed. The first thing I do when I get a Marlin lever gun is an action job, a cross block safety removal, a decelerator pad and a set of ghost ring sights.

A word for the wise my friend. If you want a Marlin that really shoots do your self this little favor. When you inspect the bore look for these two tell tale accuracy killers.

1. If you can see any deformation at the muzzel end due to a too deep a cut front sight dove tail, pass on that particular gun. Not all Marlins have this defect but some do. And it's a sign that the gun is going to be a "BLACK marble" as they say.

2. And this is more important for you as you will be shortening your gun and the and losing the old front dove tail anyway.
When looking down your barrel with a good light look at the place on the inside of the barrel opposite the area that all the lettering is stamped on the outside of the barrel. If you even think that you see any bulging inward from an over press on the lettering, pass on that particular rifle. Believe it or not you will occasionally find one with an inward bulged barrel especially on the octagonal barrels.

3. With all that being said, Marlin has cleaned up there act on the octagonal barrels with the 45-70 cowboy. These decfects were down right common on the 1895 carbine limited rifles.
If your rifle has a goog clean barrel it should shoot like the dickens. Good luck and keep us informed..