Why O/U

[kx592]

Just figured I would post this up to get some insight. What is the big advantage/ preference for the O/U's for sket, trap, spot clay? Whats the advantage of having 1 less shell?

[batmann]

In most shotgun shooting sports you can only use two rounds so the extra capacity is of little importance. The O/U gives you a single sight plane, the ability to use different chokes in each barrel and they seem to handle better than pumps/auto's and SXS.

[dalecooper51]

Also when shooting something expensive like 28 ga or .410, you don't have to search for your empty hulls to reload.

[robhof]

The o/u's also handle really well. They come to point and swing the smoothest of all the shotguns, except a quality single, but then you've only got one shot.

[Maromero]

It's about the weight distribution. The barrels run all the waytowards the breach so the gun is more compact and the weight distribution is even through the swing plane, if that makes any scence to you.

[zippy13]

What is the big advantage/ preference for the O/U's for sket, trap, spot clay?

The two word answer: Higher scores

If you come up with a configuration that gives the comp shooters better scores than the O/U, then there will be a boat load of custom O/U race guns for sale at reduced prices.

[darkgael]

+1 about the higher scores. O/Us in the clay games seem to be what the winners shoot.

They come to point and swing the smoothest of all the shotguns

I wonder about that - whether it isn't more of a personal preference. I've heard repeatedly over the years that SXSs are the most natural pointing SGs.
I've also heard that the O/U's popularity is related to the fact that "we are a nation of riflemen" and the O/U is more like a rifle than a SXS.
Pete

[Jeremiah/Az]

Good points already made, plus the gun will be shorter for a given barrel length because you don't have the added length of the action of an auto or pump. I think the triggers are or can be made smoother & crisper on higher grade o/u's.

[oneounceload]

I've heard repeatedly over the years that SXSs are the most natural pointing SGs.

That's going under the assumption that the gun has been properly fitted. These guns are typically used for driven birds in Europe (still are), as well as by a growing contingency of folks here who like the sleek design and usually light weight associated with a finely-made double (Clunky cheap guns aside)

[kx592]

Ill agree with the fact O/U have a natural mount, i tried a few at the shop the other day getting my gun and it fit real nice, I just think I wouldn't be as happy with one as an auto. Maybe ill try one out next time im on the market for one

[NoSecondBest]

It's a matter of preference. I own both. Which one do I shoot the best? About the same. There are some high end autos out there that are winning shoots in the right hands. The thing with an O/U is the asthetics. They're just nice to own. One standout advantage of an O/U is the ability to choose two different chokes when shooting sporting clays. In most big shoots, someone sets the course up with several stations where a bird is right on top of you and the next (or preceding one) very far away. There is a small advantage having two different chokes. However, your top shooters can usually do as well with either gun. FYI: I'm a AA shooter and have been shooting shotgun for a lot of years competivily. I win my share of shoots too.

[BigJimP]

You've gotten all good answers - but I don't think anybody mentioned reliability ( from good, Over Unders ) - and by that I mean at an entry level guns from Browning or Beretta ...so for the most part we're discussing guns in the $ 2,500 + price range...

With many semi-autos / cycling can be an issue - especially if the gun is not kept clean and well lubed. There is a lot more going on / than simply opening an O/U - pushing shells into it / cocking and firing the 2 barrels ...not that an O/U can't break ( it can ) .... but holding up to 15,000 shells a year - an O/U is clearly the better choice in terms of reliability, in my opinion.

Its a topic often discussed here - but not all O/U's are created equal. The market is littered with O/U's under $1,000 these days -- and you have to ask yourself, if you see dozens of Browning and Beretta O/U's at competitive shoots ( guns that might be 10 yrs old plus ) that are still providing trouble free performance - why do these guys depend on a Browning vs a lot of the cheaper guns .... / it comes down to reliability ( not fancy wood or engraving ).

The 3rd shell in a semi-auto is irrlevant / because you can't have more than 2 shells in the gun at any time for Skeet, Trap, Sporting Clays or 5 Stand ...( and sometimes only 1 shell )... Loading 3 shells in a semi-auto is a "major safety violation" !

[NoSecondBest]

It's true that a better O/U will handle more rounds in its lifetime without wearing out than an auto will. Even a high end auto. However, when they do wear out they are still a lot cheaper to replace than an O/U. I've gone through three Berettas in the last fifteen years. No big deal, I just buy another one. Even the worn out one still fetches a couple hundred bucks. It still comes down to which one you shoot the best if you're out there to win. How long the gun is going to last is secondary if you're a competitor. FYI-I own two higher end O/U's but like shooting the auto due to its almost negligible recoil (gas operated Beretta 391 Sporter). On a good day I shoot my O/U better if the course has a tough mix of targets where two chokes are an advantage (you can also mix loads with an auto to gain some of that back such as spreaders, etc).

[oneounceload]

Over the long term, even a semi-serious clay shooter will spend WAY more on targets and ammunition than they will on the price of the gun. High-end guns hold their value at a higher % rate than lower end guns.

Folks I know shoot K-80s - great guns - current average new price for a basic model is about $10,000. They can shoot those guns for 5 or 10 years and when they upgrade, sell those guns for equal or more money than what they originally spent. Not a bad deal in the long run

[BigJimP]

Browning XS Skeet Citori, with 30" barrels, and an adj comb - is my primary gun for bird hunting, Skeet and Sporting Clays and 5 Stand. Its a lot of gun for the money these days retailing new for around $3,000. I have XS Skeet models in 12, 20, 28ga and .410 - so they meet all my needs in the field and for most clay target games. Most of my guns have close to 100,000 shells thru them / and no malfunctions...

For Trap - I turn to a Browning XT, Trap model, 32" barrels and around 10 lbs .... longer and heavier ...its a better Trap gun for me ( at singles, doubles or continental Trap). I have single barrel Trap guns / but I rarely shoot them.

My do everything well travel gun / when I only want to take one gun for a little bit of everything ... is a Benelli Super Sport semi auto. Its real light, even with a 30" barrel - but new its under $2,000 so I don't mind letting the airlines ship it for me ( where I would not give them a good O/U ...just don't trust them ) ...and insured or not / the last thing I want is to get at my vacation site and not have my gun / set up the way I want it. I think a Beretta 391 is a good alternative - if you like a gas gun / I don't. The Benelli inertia system shoots way cleaner / easier to strip and clean when I get back to my hotel for the evening or before I leave the gun club.

[darkgael]

Thought that this link would fit in with this thread OK. More about SXSs in trap. Can't see them taking over based on this but these fellows all had positive experiences.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...?f=96&t=214259

More directly related to this thread: the only O/U that I have is a field gun (a Weatherby) in 20 ga. How much of a handicap is a 20 ga. when shooting Trap? Is there a load that is recommended for the 20 ga. in this game?
Pete

[oneounceload]

More directly related to this thread: the only O/U that I have is a field gun (a Weatherby) in 20 ga. How much of a handicap is a 20 ga. when shooting Trap? Is there a load that is recommended for the 20 ga. in this game?
Pete

For singles from the 16, there isn't any handicap - many 12 gauge shooters are shooting 7/8 and even 3/4 oz loads to lessen recoil. Your basic Win AA or Remington STS target load (or something similar) will work just fine with #8 or 7-1/2 shot.

The only disadvantage you'll notice is from your gun being a lightweight field gun. The extra 2 pounds or so that the target weighs really becomes apparent after a few rounds. A target grade 20, with proper loads and chokes can hang with the 12, IMO, all the way back to the 27 yard line

[darkgael]

Oneounce: Thanks for that info. I am encouraged. I've owned SGs of various types for years - hunted with them - but have only just started with the clay games. I very much enjoyed my first experience with Trap. Wish I could say that I did really well from the first round but that is not so. Each round, however, was better than the one before. I was using my old 12 ga. Ithaca 37. Want to try the 20 O/U.
Want to try a lot of stuff.
Pete

[zippy13]

I beg to differ with my learned friend, oneounceload. Yesterday, I shot a few rounds of 16-yd trap with my 12-ga omni-loads (7/8-oz of #8s at 1200+ fps). They are great for training: I over choke a pinch so they are a little center dense and give a nice ink-ball that tells me when I'm right-on the target or dust shows when I'm a little off. That being said, if I were shooting for score, it would be with 1-1/8-oz loads and less choke so those dusters would be dead.

Sure, you can shoot 16-yard trap with a 20-ga (or smaller) and have a great time, but don't delude yourself into thinking that the lighter loads don't put fewer pellets in the air and fewer pellets mean fewer chances of breaking the target. Perhaps 1-oz might have said, For singles from the 16, there isn't much of a handicap instead of any. And, getting back on topic, trap is the one sport where I trade two O/U barrels for one long one. Isn't that why they make combos?

[SigP6Carry]

The length and weight of the gun make them more natural to swing and lead the target with, am I correct? I shoot pretty decent with a Mossberg 500, but I picked that up just to get started with the sport.

Another advantage with the O/U that I've heard about is that when firing the lower barrel, rather than the upper barrel, the gun tends not to flip up as much and is more comfortable to shoot. So, do people shoot singles with an O/U with the lower barrel only?

[BigJimP]

The biggest issue / from my perspective - is not the load ... its the mental attitude. Zippy and OneOunce both shoot a lot of targets / and I shoot a few too ...and I see both points / and I end up in the middle, where I shoot 1 oz of shot / usually 8's for Trap from the 16 to 20 yard lines.

I'm not a registered Trap shooter ( my parents were married ) - but even if I was ...I'd still shoot 1 oz of 8's probably.

For Trap specifically - I go to a heavier and longer gun / because the game of Trap has less barrel movement left and right than Skeet. The heavier gun helps me smooth out the swing a little / without the gun feeling like "a big ole sewer pipe" that I'm swinging ...so I go to a 32" barrel, 12ga - Browning XT - that weighs about 10 lbs. For singles, I always shoot the lower barrel first ....because its more in line with my shoulder, recoils directly back, etc ... but both barrels should hit the same point of impact / if the gun is built and regulated correctly.

For clay target games with more barrel movement left to Right / Skeet, Sporting Clays, 5 Stand .... I go to a gun like the Browning XS Skeet with 30" barrels, and one that weighs about 8 1/2 lbs ... lets me move it a little faster / but still enough weight to keep it fluid on follow-thru. I have the same gun in 12, 20, 28ga and .410 - and all 4 of them are set up the same way / at about the same weight ( even though the 20ga, 28ga and .410 are all built on a 20ga receiver ) vs the bigger and heavier 12ga receiver. I add about 8 oz under forend / and 8oz in butt stock ( keep the balance the same between my hands ) ...

But when it comes to loads, weights or lengths of guns ... there isn't a clear one size fits all. I like these heavier and longer guns - and high combs ...( and Zippy will probably point that out ) - and he and OneOunce favor the more traditional Italian guns ....(Beretta, Perazzi, etc ) ...and even some S X S's ...

I like shooting a 20ga for Trap once in a while / just for grins ... but I don't have ( or want ) a 20ga gun that weighs in at 10 lbs .... so I just shoot my Trap guns ( and drop the load to 1 oz / and occasionally 7/8oz ).

My primary shell I shoot for Skeet, Sporting, 5 Stand, Trap in 12ga - are my reloads ... 1oz, 8's, at around 1225 fps .....and I tend to just load them up / leave them alone ...so they are all the same. I don't want some at 1 1/8 oz, some at 7/8oz, some at 1 oz ( and use a magic market to mark the bases, etc ) ...so I just use one shell for everything. Now for really long targets / like 50+ yards out - I will carry a box of 7 1/2's at 1300 fps ...to reach out there a little more ( for Sporting or 5 Stand )... and I might shoot those loads at Trap if I was shooting from the 26 and 27 yard line .....but that yardage is for Pro's like Zippy and OneOunce ...

[oneounceload]

I will still disagree with my esteemed colleague Zippy. I am NOT a major trapper - I'm more of a sporter; BUT I have equalled my best trap score (24) with my 28 gauge and a SK choke from the 16. I have shot "Custers" from the 30 yard line with my 20 and a full choke and I stayed right to the end. (The guy I lost to had 50 years of trap experience). It can easily be done IF you, your load, your choke, your gun fit, and your mind set are up to it. Friends of mine, along with myself, have used our 20s and 28s on sporting layouts designed for the 12. There wasn't any target out there that we couldn't break (assuming my criteria above was in place) successfully.

Is it a little harder if you're going against a guy with a Ljutic custom-stocked to him and his pet 1-1/8 oz load from the 27? Sure, but by the time you get THAT serious about competition, you'll have already bought your dedicated trap gun.

The thing to do is to get your gun to fit you properly - whether you pay $$ for a pro, or do it yourself - and practice on your weaknesses with a coach or mentor. If a certain type of target is giving you fits, see if they'll set the machine to only throw those targets and spend a few rounds with someone watching as you learn whatever technique makes you successful. That is something my group has done as well. We went to one of the sporting courses that a few stations that had previously kicked our butts. We shot the equal of two full rounds on three stations practicing and helping each other get the read, lead or speed correct so we could break it.

Start off having fun - the tenseness of competition can wait until you think you're ready for it.

[zippy13]

But when it comes to loads, weights or lengths of guns ... there isn't a clear one size fits all. I like these heavier and longer guns - and high combs ...( and Zippy will probably point that out )

You betcha, boys and girls, they don't call him Big Jim for nothing. I'm 6-2+, 220+ and I feel positively petite next to Big Jim. Being tall, like my friend Jim, and shooting those long barrels puts him a little closer to the targets. Don't let Jim's modesty fool you, he knows what he's doing with a shotgun and he's a well qualified pistol shooter.

[oneounceload]

The length and weight of the gun make them more natural to swing and lead the target with, am I correct? I shoot pretty decent with a Mossberg 500, but I picked that up just to get started with the sport.

Another advantage with the O/U that I've heard about is that when firing the lower barrel, rather than the upper barrel, the gun tends not to flip up as much and is more comfortable to shoot. So, do people shoot singles with an O/U with the lower barrel only?

Yes, yes, and yes.....

Longer barrels help keep your swing momentum going. Short barrels have the term "whippy" typically associated with them. They are faster to start moving and even faster to stop - which cause misses behind the bird. A typical 12 gauge target O/U weighs in the 8-10# range, the typical target semi about a pound less. Field guns, meant for carrying a lot and shooting little will weigh up to 2# less than the target version. Means you'll feel more recoil, but you're usually not taking as many shots in as short a time span and you're wearing some extra clothing.

Many folks, myself included, prefer to use the lower barrel - it is more in-line with the wrist of the gun and tends to direct the recoil more straight back, thus helping with muzzle rising. If you look at a lot of dedicated trap single guns, they feature what is called an "unsingle" barrel - which is located where the lower barrel on O/U would be coupled with a very high rib.

As to your Mossberg - with the advent of the pump, it replaced many SxS guns that were used for trap - a single sight plane, etc., coupled with great reliability made the choice for decades. IMO, there weakness lies in their lightweight making recoil over many rounds very fatiguing. If you shoot other games requiring a fast second shot, that exposes their other main weakness - the inability to maintain a smooth swing on the target. I know there are folks who makes it seem like a semi - I have known several personally who are excellent with their pump on a second shot. Again, IMO, those folks are few and far between. Why give yourself another motion and potential miss when there are guns out there that eliminate that issue? A semi or O/U do that.

Once you decide if trap, or any of the other fun clay games are for you, ask around to see what folks are using; borrow them for a round if you can, try as many as you can; talk to them about reliability and repairs, resale, etc. and then go get yourself the best gun you for your chosen game.

Most important of all is to go and have some fun.

[oneounceload]

Now, Jim, while I favor the litheness and balance of those Italians beauties, my wallet currently says to use the reliability of the Japanese - I use Brownings - a 12 with 32" barrels, and a 20 with 30" barrels.

And Zippy - at only 220, you're a lightweight...........(I WISH I was only 220)