More "novelty" and choice in the blackpowder market?

Andy Griffith · September 26, 2010, 11:33 PM

I don't know how to start this in a way that it sounds half logical and well thought out...

I believe there is a good market for "niche" or novelty blackpowder items. There has only been a couple that have hit the market lately, but it shows that, there is more to be said for being mainstream in the market than just hunting rifles.

The big names like T/C, Traditions, Pietta, Uberti and Pedersoli have some great what I'd call "core" product and cater more to "need" that "want." Please understand that I'm speaking a bit tongue-in-cheek here.

My perception (uh oh, be careful of that word!) is that there is certainly a niche market for "novelty" items in the blackpowder category...as has been shown by the Pedersoli Howda pistol. I know of five guys in my club that have them- I don't personally yet, as I'm waiting for one of those to get tired of it and sell it to me.

However, the sales of this piece seem to be very brisk for it's price and size. I don't know how much advertising that they threw out on this thing- it's one of those strange pieces that they describe fellows carrying in Africa...but few times depicted in literature unless you are well read. Most fellers I know of bought it because it looks like a "sawed off shotgun" even though no where as practical as a cartridge firing piece. Now they introduced a stock for it? How can that (the stock) be considered anything but niche? I applaud their ingenuity on this one, and hope the carry it all the way to the bank.

I said all this to say, they need more oddball stuff, with curb appeal- even if it isn't historically correct- sometimes the less useful, yet more appealing it is, the better it will sell. Go figure. The best thing it does though, is gets more people into blackpowder shooting- which our sport needs to thrive.

I'd love to see that thing in 12 or 10 gauge, perhaps a tri-barreled howda. What about a 1860 or '58 scaled up a bit in .50? (I've seen the Ruger Old Army conversion, and the older .50 Walkers that were made). Maybe those aren't off the wall enough...

Anyway, this was the best I could come up with with my friend Geo. Dickel tonight. I'm hittin' the sack now- y'all brainstorm on this. Maybe Mrs. Griffith won't hear me coming to bed.

hickstick_10 · September 26, 2010, 11:56 PM

The howdah looks like a legal sawed off pistol from "Desperado" and movies like it, thats where the appeal is there.

A 3 barreled howdah would border on unwieldy. But hey to each there own.

Personally I would like to see a side by side BP 410 shotgun with choke adapters made up, as well as a 22 caliber flintlock rifle.

For my unwieldy, useless wish list, Il wish for a repro of the Le mat revolving rifle, 9 .44 shots plus a 12 gauge barrel. Or a repro of the 12 shot BP revolver I saw in a book, it had 2 cylinders that swung on a yoke inside the frame.

For the life of me I dont know why the Tranter or other British style BP revolvers haven't been duplicated.

azyogi · September 27, 2010, 02:09 AM

Dreiling Howdah with 209 primers, rifled .50 over smooth bore 12's. Internal strikers to keep Hammers from hanging out all over. Paired with a 58 NMA that shoots .490 rb. 50 grns of FFFg.

Rifleman1776 · September 27, 2010, 08:25 AM

The Howdah was actually designed and used in India. Hunters would shoot lions from the backs of elephants. The Howdah was carried in holsters on the elephant and used as back-up in case the lion didn't die immediately.
As for your 'novelty' guns, history will show there were many one might consider 'novelty'. A manufacturer will not make something unless there is sufficient market out there to buy them and make him a profit.
Search out a good muzzle loading gun builder, within safety considerations, you can get anything you want made up. Be prepared to lay out the $$$.
I have a gun in progress right now some would call 'novelty'.
BTW, except for the "novelty" of it, I wouldn't care to own or shoot a howdah.

madcratebuilder · September 27, 2010, 08:50 AM

Quote:

My perception (uh oh, be careful of that word!) is that there is certainly a niche market for "novelty" items in the blackpowder category

I don't know if I would use the term "Novelty" but there is a certain amount of "Niche" black powder fire arms. I would list the Howdah, LeMat, DA & SA Starr to name a few. A combination of cost and complexity does not help sales. I'm glad Pietta continues makes the LeMat and Starr's.

noelf2 · September 27, 2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Personally I would like to see a side by side BP 410 shotgun with choke adapters made up

Me too, except I want cylinder bore and I'll get it jug choked. I keep looking for an old CVA .410 at gun shows and Gunbroker. One day I'll find one that's priced right.

Quote:

as well as a 22 caliber flintlock rifle.

Oh heck no (not for me anyway)! You'd have to clean out fouling after every shot just to press in the next ball without breaking the rod. Even a 32 is a PITA (IMHO) compared to a light loaded .45 or .50 cal. A light loaded .45 (25-30 grs 3f BP) is great for rabbits and squirrels. Just punches a hole through without too much damage.

RWBlue01 · September 27, 2010, 01:57 PM

Rifleman1776, there are no lions in India. Tigers?

RWBlue01 · September 27, 2010, 01:59 PM

I want a stock for a Rem1858. They made it for one maybe two years and then no more. I want it back.

Beyond that, I would like some pistols/long guns that are Pirate like. R

Akseminole · September 27, 2010, 02:56 PM

I would like to see an electrically fired multi barreled shotgun like a Colt Defender(shotgun, not handgun) in the same size envelope as the colt. In my mind it would be an updated pepper box for those of us that don't believe invasive background checks for a constitution given right are acceptable...

To quote(or misquote) Inception "don't be afraid to dream big my dear"
And then I whip out my ginormus 40mm cap and ball revolver....

bedbugbilly · September 27, 2010, 08:18 PM

I'd like to see "turn signals" that would clamp on to the end of your ML shotgun . . . . that way, when you pull up on a bird, your hunting partner would know if you're going to swing left or swing right . . . . hmmmm . . . . I guess that is a pretty dumb idea after all . . . . . .

azyogi · October 4, 2011, 02:41 AM

orangello · October 4, 2011, 01:21 PM

I would like to see a non-kit, swivel barreled pistol for a reasonable cost. I understand that some of the more unusual kits at Dixie Gun Works got discontinued semi-recently.

Hawg · October 4, 2011, 04:43 PM

I wish they'd stick to what was actually used.

B.L.E. · October 4, 2011, 10:02 PM

I would like to see more choices in the "squirrel rifle" catagory. .36 or .32 caliber traditional long rifles, flint or percussion. They are just pure fun to shoot.
Also, 000 and 00 buckshot works well in these calibers, making them extremely economical to shoot.
Dang it, it seems like everything now is .50 or .54 caliber and they have just about forgotten about the traditional patched round ball.

It would also be nice if the federal bureaucracy would come to its senses and de-restrict real black powder so it could be sold just like smokeless powder.

orangello · October 5, 2011, 01:39 PM

^^^ BLE, more small game caliber rifles would be nice, especially if one could be affordably made by Traditions or one of the other major outlets.

Hardy · October 5, 2011, 07:26 PM

I would like to see people come in my store and buy my guns so I could have the money to order stuff that people want.

WBH

ZVP · October 5, 2011, 10:45 PM

Piettia has come out with a bunch of revolvers that are either Commeratives (or like their Police Model), near copies or semi-custom (short barrels) versions. Add these to the already intresting list of former short production run revolvers on the market, you really have some Noveltys to seek and buy!
I'd like to see more good quality Leather available at reasonable prices! I like Holsters and especally have spent hours drooling over my copy of"Packing Iron "book!
ZVP

September 26, 2010, 11:33 PM	#1
Andy Griffith Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Location: Macon Co. NC Posts: 591	More "novelty" and choice in the blackpowder market? I don't know how to start this in a way that it sounds half logical and well thought out... I believe there is a good market for "niche" or novelty blackpowder items. There has only been a couple that have hit the market lately, but it shows that, there is more to be said for being mainstream in the market than just hunting rifles. The big names like T/C, Traditions, Pietta, Uberti and Pedersoli have some great what I'd call "core" product and cater more to "need" that "want." Please understand that I'm speaking a bit tongue-in-cheek here. My perception (uh oh, be careful of that word!) is that there is certainly a niche market for "novelty" items in the blackpowder category...as has been shown by the Pedersoli Howda pistol. I know of five guys in my club that have them- I don't personally yet, as I'm waiting for one of those to get tired of it and sell it to me. However, the sales of this piece seem to be very brisk for it's price and size. I don't know how much advertising that they threw out on this thing- it's one of those strange pieces that they describe fellows carrying in Africa...but few times depicted in literature unless you are well read. Most fellers I know of bought it because it looks like a "sawed off shotgun" even though no where as practical as a cartridge firing piece. Now they introduced a stock for it? How can that (the stock) be considered anything but niche? I applaud their ingenuity on this one, and hope the carry it all the way to the bank. I said all this to say, they need more oddball stuff, with curb appeal- even if it isn't historically correct- sometimes the less useful, yet more appealing it is, the better it will sell. Go figure. The best thing it does though, is gets more people into blackpowder shooting- which our sport needs to thrive. I'd love to see that thing in 12 or 10 gauge, perhaps a tri-barreled howda. What about a 1860 or '58 scaled up a bit in .50? (I've seen the Ruger Old Army conversion, and the older .50 Walkers that were made). Maybe those aren't off the wall enough... Anyway, this was the best I could come up with with my friend Geo. Dickel tonight. I'm hittin' the sack now- y'all brainstorm on this. Maybe Mrs. Griffith won't hear me coming to bed. __________________ Barney Fife: "Nip it, nip it, nip it!" Andy Griffith:"Oh now Barn'...."

September 27, 2010, 02:56 PM	#9
Akseminole Junior Member Join Date: December 14, 2008 Posts: 9	I would like to see an electrically fired multi barreled shotgun like a Colt Defender(shotgun, not handgun) in the same size envelope as the colt. In my mind it would be an updated pepper box for those of us that don't believe invasive background checks for a constitution given right are acceptable... To quote(or misquote) Inception "don't be afraid to dream big my dear" And then I whip out my ginormus 40mm cap and ball revolver.... Last edited by Akseminole; September 27, 2010 at 03:13 PM.

September 27, 2010, 08:18 PM	#10
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	I'd like to see "turn signals" that would clamp on to the end of your ML shotgun . . . . that way, when you pull up on a bird, your hunting partner would know if you're going to swing left or swing right . . . . hmmmm . . . . I guess that is a pretty dumb idea after all . . . . . . __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

October 4, 2011, 02:41 AM	#11
azyogi Member Join Date: June 12, 2010 Location: Tucson Posts: 88	Howdah 20 gauge SxS by Pedersoli

October 5, 2011, 10:45 PM	#17
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	Besides the Howdah Piettia has come out with a bunch of revolvers that are either Commeratives (or like their Police Model), near copies or semi-custom (short barrels) versions. Add these to the already intresting list of former short production run revolvers on the market, you really have some Noveltys to seek and buy! I'd like to see more good quality Leather available at reasonable prices! I like Holsters and especally have spent hours drooling over my copy of"Packing Iron "book! ZVP

September 26, 2010, 11:56 PM	#2
hickstick_10 Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 477	The howdah looks like a legal sawed off pistol from "Desperado" and movies like it, thats where the appeal is there. A 3 barreled howdah would border on unwieldy. But hey to each there own. Personally I would like to see a side by side BP 410 shotgun with choke adapters made up, as well as a 22 caliber flintlock rifle. For my unwieldy, useless wish list, Il wish for a repro of the Le mat revolving rifle, 9 .44 shots plus a 12 gauge barrel. Or a repro of the 12 shot BP revolver I saw in a book, it had 2 cylinders that swung on a yoke inside the frame. For the life of me I dont know why the Tranter or other British style BP revolvers haven't been duplicated.

September 27, 2010, 02:09 AM	#3
azyogi Member Join Date: June 12, 2010 Location: Tucson Posts: 88	Dreiling Howdah with 209 primers, rifled .50 over smooth bore 12's. Internal strikers to keep Hammers from hanging out all over. Paired with a 58 NMA that shoots .490 rb. 50 grns of FFFg.

September 27, 2010, 08:25 AM	#4
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	The Howdah was actually designed and used in India. Hunters would shoot lions from the backs of elephants. The Howdah was carried in holsters on the elephant and used as back-up in case the lion didn't die immediately. As for your 'novelty' guns, history will show there were many one might consider 'novelty'. A manufacturer will not make something unless there is sufficient market out there to buy them and make him a profit. Search out a good muzzle loading gun builder, within safety considerations, you can get anything you want made up. Be prepared to lay out the $$$. I have a gun in progress right now some would call 'novelty'. BTW, except for the "novelty" of it, I wouldn't care to own or shoot a howdah.

September 27, 2010, 01:57 PM	#7
RWBlue01 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2008 Posts: 178	Rifleman1776, there are no lions in India. Tigers?

September 27, 2010, 01:59 PM	#8
RWBlue01 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2008 Posts: 178	I want a stock for a Rem1858. They made it for one maybe two years and then no more. I want it back. Beyond that, I would like some pistols/long guns that are Pirate like. R

October 4, 2011, 01:21 PM	#12
orangello Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 566	I would like to see a non-kit, swivel barreled pistol for a reasonable cost. I understand that some of the more unusual kits at Dixie Gun Works got discontinued semi-recently.

October 4, 2011, 04:43 PM	#13
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I wish they'd stick to what was actually used.

October 4, 2011, 10:02 PM	#14
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	I would like to see more choices in the "squirrel rifle" catagory. .36 or .32 caliber traditional long rifles, flint or percussion. They are just pure fun to shoot. Also, 000 and 00 buckshot works well in these calibers, making them extremely economical to shoot. Dang it, it seems like everything now is .50 or .54 caliber and they have just about forgotten about the traditional patched round ball. It would also be nice if the federal bureaucracy would come to its senses and de-restrict real black powder so it could be sold just like smokeless powder.

October 5, 2011, 01:39 PM	#15
orangello Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 566	^^^ BLE, more small game caliber rifles would be nice, especially if one could be affordably made by Traditions or one of the other major outlets.

October 5, 2011, 07:26 PM	#16
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	I would like to see people come in my store and buy my guns so I could have the money to order stuff that people want. WBH