Brass versus steel - Page 2

Doc Hoy · July 30, 2011, 02:22 PM

welcome to the congregation.

There is a place for selling, buying, trading your stuff up near the top.

Doc Hoy · July 30, 2011, 02:25 PM

I have only run into one Remington I could not get the barrel out of. There are several that I own which I have not tried taking apart but of the many I have attempted to remove, only one, a steel frame ASP was unremovable. I do not use heat on the frame to remove a Remington barrel.

zullo74 · July 30, 2011, 04:57 PM

Shotput79 said:

Quote:

It don't work out to do that with the Remingtions cause you can't get the barrels out.

They are screwed in. You UN-screw them! Lefty-loosey/righty-tighty

madcratebuilder · July 31, 2011, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Doc

MCB
I have to disagree a little on the loading pressure.

The mechanical advantage of the loading lever depending upon which pistol you are considering is somewhere around 8 or 9. With the force applied to the loading lever this means that the actual force pulling on the arbor and therefore pushing the cylinder into the recoil shield could exceed 300 pounds.

I am figuring 30 to 40 pounds of force on the loading lever which in my opinion is realistic.
__________________
Doc

OK, that got me curious. I took a Remington cylinder out to the shop and put it in my valve spring tester and pressed in a few RB's. 60-80lbs pressure to shave the ball, of course ball diameter to chamber diameter well change this number. I had a .004 press fit on the test mule.

Not trying to be a smart arse Doc, I have spent about twenty years worth of weekends testing on-head valve spring pressures between runs at the race track. The tool you use is much like a loading lever. You get to the point of having a calibrate arm and you don't even look at the gauge.

Doc Hoy · July 31, 2011, 08:48 AM

It is absolutely true what you say. I have no way of knowing how much force I am exerting with my hand on the loading lever.

Neither do I find it surprising that with some alloys and some ball sizes the loading prssure can be quite low. Heck with my .31 Remington and a .315 mold I require almost no pressure at all. (I know I have the wrong size mold and I don't shoot it with these balls.)

I respect your words as a long time shooter who applies careful and circumspect logic to everything you do. In addition you have a good bit more mechanical experience than I do which I both admire and respect.

But on my newest dragoon with a .454 ball and the alloy I am using which I think is at least 95%, I can't get the ball to enter the chamber no mater how much force I use on the lever with my hand. I might be using the wrong size ball or the wrong alloy or the chamfer on the chambers may have been left out, but the fact remains that if I apply X amount of force on the lever in a radial vector which is tangent to the arch of the end of the lever, I am applying about X times 8 or 9 (perhaps even higher on the Walker with it's longer lever) on the plunger.

Applying a lot of force to the loading lever is apparently not all that rare since I have read (or at least I think I remember having read) that some folks use a cheater tube on the end of the lever to start the bullets.

I am one who believes that some of the loose arbors in brass frame Colts are due as much to loading as to shooting the pistols. This is what prompted me to move to a press which I declared I would never do.

BTW....Would never take you as a smart arse nor do I dispute what you are saying. Nor do I get offended which, I hope is your case as well.

July 30, 2011, 02:22 PM	#26
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	wmicky welcome to the congregation. There is a place for selling, buying, trading your stuff up near the top. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

July 30, 2011, 02:25 PM	#27
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Can't get the barrel out of a Remington? I have only run into one Remington I could not get the barrel out of. There are several that I own which I have not tried taking apart but of the many I have attempted to remove, only one, a steel frame ASP was unremovable. I do not use heat on the frame to remove a Remington barrel. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

July 31, 2011, 08:48 AM	#30
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	MCB It is absolutely true what you say. I have no way of knowing how much force I am exerting with my hand on the loading lever. Neither do I find it surprising that with some alloys and some ball sizes the loading prssure can be quite low. Heck with my .31 Remington and a .315 mold I require almost no pressure at all. (I know I have the wrong size mold and I don't shoot it with these balls.) I respect your words as a long time shooter who applies careful and circumspect logic to everything you do. In addition you have a good bit more mechanical experience than I do which I both admire and respect. But on my newest dragoon with a .454 ball and the alloy I am using which I think is at least 95%, I can't get the ball to enter the chamber no mater how much force I use on the lever with my hand. I might be using the wrong size ball or the wrong alloy or the chamfer on the chambers may have been left out, but the fact remains that if I apply X amount of force on the lever in a radial vector which is tangent to the arch of the end of the lever, I am applying about X times 8 or 9 (perhaps even higher on the Walker with it's longer lever) on the plunger. Applying a lot of force to the loading lever is apparently not all that rare since I have read (or at least I think I remember having read) that some folks use a cheater tube on the end of the lever to start the bullets. I am one who believes that some of the loose arbors in brass frame Colts are due as much to loading as to shooting the pistols. This is what prompted me to move to a press which I declared I would never do. BTW....Would never take you as a smart arse nor do I dispute what you are saying. Nor do I get offended which, I hope is your case as well. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.