Weird Primer Marks!!!!!!!!!

JKnight · May 29, 2000, 05:48 PM

I'm reloading for a HK P7/PSP and I've noticed some weird primer marks. The primers have a pimple around the firing pin dent.
Here's my data:

Caliber= 9mm
Bullet= 124gr. FMJ-FP
Powder= W231 - 4.9gr.
Primer= CCI
Brass= Remington
OAL= 1.050

I'm well below the max. powder charge of 5.3gr. I don't have a chrony so I'm not sure how fast these are going. What do you experts think?

Southla1 · May 30, 2000, 05:55 PM

It could be a weak firing pin spring, or maybe a firing pin that does not fit the hole in the breech block perfectly.

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Carlyle Hebert

MFH · May 30, 2000, 06:08 PM

It could also be a batch of soft primers. I had a similiar problem in .223 rem with CCI primers. I switched brands and eliminated the problem.

Kenneth L. Walters · May 30, 2000, 08:54 PM

I thought that this was the classic sign of high pressure? The only time I ever had a pressure problem it was from a load taken out of a well known manual and WELL below the maximum stated powder charge.

Big Bunny · May 30, 2000, 10:40 PM

Sometimes breach-face irregularities can do strange things to primers [after firing ]but yours is un-usual in my experience.

I would check also for HIGH pressure symptoms such as cratered primers after firing. Is recoil and noise excessive ? This "cratering" is actually what you described in your posting as far as I can see......extreme care is now indicated in shooting any more rounds.

Your firearm is a unique machine and any reloading Guides are exactly that...a 'guide' only for average of their type.

As previously said above, it could also perhaps be a firing pin problem or 'soft' primers.

I would see a gunsmith who is experienced in your firearm and also before that perhaps "pull" the rest of your loads and weigh them in an accurate powder scale and take a series of readings of those {and tabulate their OAL as well.}

Something IS wrong - check everything (twice) before proceeding....your primers are "talking" to you and you must listen before a possible KB!

Let as know at FL how you go. Best of luck.

------------------
***Big Bunny***

**Mal H** · May 30, 2000, 10:49 PM

JKnight - 4.9 gr of 231 is about .5 gr over the max I see listed in 3 manuals (Speer, Lyman, Winchester). I think you're seeing cratered primers from overpressure loads. I'll bet you're looking at the Hornady manual which gives the same load for lead and jacketed bullets. Their min is .2 gr higher than Winchester's max! I've seen several examples of this and so I don't use the Hornady manual very much, but they do have excellent info in the first chapters. You probably won't harm your gun with that load, but I hope you didn't load a thousand of them.

tonyz · May 31, 2000, 09:40 AM

I agree with Mal H.
Looking through the 5 reloading manuals I have, you are over by at least .4Grs. According to my manuals, the max Load is 4.5Grs.
Try Starting at 4.0Grs and work up.
here is the link to Winchesters reloading manual. http://www.winchester.com/reloader/index.html

Tony Z

------------------
www.vote.com
also for gun accessorys. http://gungoodies.com

[This message has been edited by tonyz (edited May 31, 2000).]

JKnight · May 31, 2000, 09:58 AM

Thanks guys, I guess I should have checked some of my other manuals first.

Southla1 · May 31, 2000, 02:53 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Bunny:
Your firearm is a unique machine and any reloading Guides are exactly that...a 'guide' only for average of their type.[/quote]

Amen to that! I have a Rem 700 25-06 that I dearly love however you had best stay at least 2grains below the lightest maximum load listed in the different manuals. tight chamber and no erosion to speak of I guess.

------------------
Carlyle Hebert

Hammer · May 31, 2000, 03:39 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bunny:
[/B]...your primers are "talking" to you and you must listen before a possible KB!
[/B]

I like the way you put that Big B. How's that other quote go ... "Your just jealous because the voices aren't talking to you."

Big Bunny · May 31, 2000, 08:14 PM

Thanks everyone, just pleased to be part of the Firing Line to share and (mainly) learn.

------------------
***Big Bunny***

May 29, 2000, 05:48 PM	#1
JKnight Junior member Join Date: May 26, 1999 Posts: 55	I'm reloading for a HK P7/PSP and I've noticed some weird primer marks. The primers have a pimple around the firing pin dent. Here's my data: Caliber= 9mm Bullet= 124gr. FMJ-FP Powder= W231 - 4.9gr. Primer= CCI Brass= Remington OAL= 1.050 I'm well below the max. powder charge of 5.3gr. I don't have a chrony so I'm not sure how fast these are going. What do you experts think?

May 30, 2000, 05:55 PM	#2
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	It could be a weak firing pin spring, or maybe a firing pin that does not fit the hole in the breech block perfectly. ------------------ Carlyle Hebert

May 30, 2000, 06:08 PM	#3
MFH Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2000 Posts: 122	It could also be a batch of soft primers. I had a similiar problem in .223 rem with CCI primers. I switched brands and eliminated the problem.

May 30, 2000, 08:54 PM	#4
Kenneth L. Walters Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 1999 Location: flagstaff, arizona Posts: 477	I thought that this was the classic sign of high pressure? The only time I ever had a pressure problem it was from a load taken out of a well known manual and WELL below the maximum stated powder charge.

May 30, 2000, 10:40 PM	#5
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Sometimes breach-face irregularities can do strange things to primers [after firing ]but yours is un-usual in my experience. I would check also for HIGH pressure symptoms such as cratered primers after firing. Is recoil and noise excessive ? This "cratering" is actually what you described in your posting as far as I can see......extreme care is now indicated in shooting any more rounds. Your firearm is a unique machine and any reloading Guides are exactly that...a 'guide' only for average of their type. As previously said above, it could also perhaps be a firing pin problem or 'soft' primers. I would see a gunsmith who is experienced in your firearm and also before that perhaps "pull" the rest of your loads and weigh them in an accurate powder scale and take a series of readings of those {and tabulate their OAL as well.} Something IS wrong - check everything (twice) before proceeding....your primers are "talking" to you and you must listen before a possible KB! Let as know at FL how you go. Best of luck. ------------------ *Big Bunny*

May 30, 2000, 10:49 PM	#6
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,947	JKnight - 4.9 gr of 231 is about .5 gr over the max I see listed in 3 manuals (Speer, Lyman, Winchester). I think you're seeing cratered primers from overpressure loads. I'll bet you're looking at the Hornady manual which gives the same load for lead and jacketed bullets. Their min is .2 gr higher than Winchester's max! I've seen several examples of this and so I don't use the Hornady manual very much, but they do have excellent info in the first chapters. You probably won't harm your gun with that load, but I hope you didn't load a thousand of them.

May 31, 2000, 09:40 AM	#7
tonyz Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Location: Wa Posts: 922	I agree with Mal H. Looking through the 5 reloading manuals I have, you are over by at least .4Grs. According to my manuals, the max Load is 4.5Grs. Try Starting at 4.0Grs and work up. here is the link to Winchesters reloading manual. http://www.winchester.com/reloader/index.html Tony Z ------------------ www.vote.com also for gun accessorys. http://gungoodies.com [This message has been edited by tonyz (edited May 31, 2000).]

May 31, 2000, 09:58 AM	#8
JKnight Junior member Join Date: May 26, 1999 Posts: 55	Thanks guys, I guess I should have checked some of my other manuals first.

May 31, 2000, 02:53 PM	#9
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Bunny: Your firearm is a unique machine and any reloading Guides are exactly that...a 'guide' only for average of their type.[/quote] Amen to that! I have a Rem 700 25-06 that I dearly love however you had best stay at least 2grains below the lightest maximum load listed in the different manuals. tight chamber and no erosion to speak of I guess. ------------------ Carlyle Hebert

May 31, 2000, 03:39 PM	#10
Hammer Member Join Date: May 1, 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 16	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bunny: [/B]...your primers are "talking" to you and you must listen before a possible KB! [/B] I like the way you put that Big B. How's that other quote go ... "Your just jealous because the voices aren't talking to you."

May 31, 2000, 08:14 PM	#11
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Thanks everyone, just pleased to be part of the Firing Line to share and (mainly) learn. ------------------ *Big Bunny*