9mm Luger

PiGraph · September 19, 2014, 03:37 PM

Hi Everyone...

I am new to reloading and have a question. I reloaded some 9mm Luger 115gr RN FMJ. The data told me to use 4.5 gr of Hodgon HP-38. When I put it on the scale and loaded my brass the, it was almost overflowing.

Today I did the same thing and the powder only filled the brass 1/2 to 3/4 full. I rechecked the scale several times and that is what came up.

The first reloads fired fine out of my gun, but I am curious as to the difference this time.

Any thoughts?

Nick_C_S · September 19, 2014, 04:13 PM

Quote:

The data told me to use 4.5 gr of Hodgon HP-38.

First, good bullet/powder combination-choice.

Quote:

When I put it on the scale and loaded my brass the, it was almost overflowing.

That's definitely not right. I'm at work, so I can't do a mock-up; but I doubt 4.5g of HP-38 would nearly fill a 9mm case. Granted, 9mm cases vary in internal volume capacity, but not enough to explain this much difference.

Quote:

Today I did the same thing and the powder only filled the brass 1/2 to 3/4 full.

That's more like it.

Quote:

The first reloads fired fine out of my gun

Are you saying that "the first reloads" were the ones that nearly filled the case? I wouldn't dare attempt to verify it, but a case full of HP-38 in 9mm would almost certainly result is severe gun damage.

Quote:

but I am curious as to the difference this time.

So am I.

I'd like to know what scale you're using. Also, if you still have some of these rounds that you suspect are over-filled, don't shoot them. Pull them if you can. Inspect. If you can't, just toss them. We humans make lots of mistakes. Your recollection of how full the cases were may be incorrect - it happens. It may become a situation were you just move on and be vigilant about your loading process moving forward.

DAVID NANCARROW · September 19, 2014, 04:19 PM

Did you zero your scale prior to measuring?

hartcreek · September 19, 2014, 04:33 PM

You need to zero ytour scale and th several then calibrate it. Even then I have seen some wierd weights for some powders published. When I first st and my started loading 9mm I ran into the same problem using Green Dot. What I found is that the wrong weight had been published in one manual. I ran the numbers using other powders in other manuals and found a correct load. I f i personally had a 9mm I would have worked up a load but I dont and I needed to load several thousand for my chiropractor and hit it dead on. One manual simply is not enough.

I use 4.2 - 4.4 grains of green dot with a 115 grain bullet and my chiropractor that I have been seeing for more then 20 years loves them. The load is more powerful the the commercial crap he bought.

Did you do a plunk test? I use a slight roll crimp.....others here will tell you that all you need is a taper crimp but I have found that that is not the case. When I say slight I mean slight .002 is about it as the cartridge headspaces on the casemouth but it sure makes a difference.

boltomatic · September 19, 2014, 04:45 PM

4.5 grains of hp-38 is a normal charge and will NOT overflow your case, your powder measure is definitely dropping too much powder.

1) After you adjust your powder measure, you need to let it cycle 4 or five times for the adjustment to take effect. Just drop a charge and instead of seatring a bullet dump the powder back into the hopper and repeat a few times. On the 4th or 4th time, dump the powder onto your scale and see where you are at.

2) Are you using the right powder bar? My press (Dillon 550b) came with a small powder bar for dropping small weights and a large powder bar for rifle rounds that take 20+grains. If you are using the large bar to drop 4.5grains, it will probably be inconsistent.

PiGraph · September 19, 2014, 07:15 PM

@Nick... I am using the RCBS scale that came with my Rock Chucker Supreme kit.

Thanks to all for the info... I am not sure what happened with the first reload, except that I may have set it at a higher weight and thought I was only doing 4.5 grs. Lesson learned and I am enjoying reloading

I will take apart the ones from the first reload and redo them. I thought it looked weird, but after today I am sure.

Thanks again.

PiGraph · September 19, 2014, 07:18 PM

@boltomatic... I usually will weight drops until I get 4 or 5 with consistency before I charge the casings. I can only think that I had a higher weight set on the scale and didn't see it.

tcoz · September 19, 2014, 08:41 PM

Gotta be the scale or weighing procedure error.

kilimanjaro · September 19, 2014, 08:50 PM

You need one more reloading tool:

Ball, Eye, Mark I, One Each.

Look into your charged cases, and reject any that are above or below the correct depth of powder. Very fast, very simple, and completely foolproof.

Worc · September 19, 2014, 10:10 PM

I just started reloading the 9 and use a similar recipe as yours. I use Win 231 (4.6 grs) instead which is the same powder as HP-38. I'm using Berry's plated 115gr RN with mixed cases and my powder level has only been 1/2 to 3/4 full. Even with a progressive loaded, I look into each case before I place the bullet in the case. I also weigh the first three powder loads when I start a new batch and about every 24th round after that.

mchapman · September 19, 2014, 11:49 PM

Was there anything in the case prior to filling with powder? I hope that you checked.

Tony Z · September 20, 2014, 08:13 AM

Make sure it is 4.5 grains and not 45!!!

arizona98tj · September 20, 2014, 10:25 AM

Quote:

You need one more reloading tool:

Ball, Eye, Mark I, One Each.

Look into your charged cases, and reject any that are above or below the correct depth of powder. Very fast, very simple, and completely foolproof.

Good advice for someone that has spent some time reloading.

Very difficult to do on your first attempt, since you have nothing to compare to.

The OP did notice it the next time he reloaded which is why be posted here....so, IMO, he already has what he needs....a questioning attitude....and it is one of the best tools to have when reloading. It will cause you to stop and assess the situation.

Nick_C_S · September 20, 2014, 11:12 AM

Good post arizona98tj. Well stated.

Okay, so I'm at home and I decided to trickle out 4.5g of HP-38 (W231 actually - they're the same powder, under a different label, as previously stated by Worc), and put it in a 9mm case (it's a Remington-Peters "R-P" headstamp case), to see the actual fill level. Here are the pics:

[IMG]

[/IMG]

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Excusing the lousy photography, 4.5g W231 fills a 9mm case something very close to half way.

Jim Watson · September 20, 2014, 11:23 AM

I can see three possibilities.

The kit comes with a beam balance. He might have had one of the counterweights a notch out of position, giving him 5.5 or 9.5 grains of powder.

He might have had one of the oddball cases that are turning up with a thickened base section. Every once in a while we get a post with a picture of a case with a prominent step halfway down. The bullet is not going to set back against the feed ramp, but there is not as much powder space, either.

And I have had cases with debris down in the bottom, not noticed until the powder charge came up way too high.

Any road, an observant eye and a suspicious mind saved the day. Would that we had more beginning reloaders who could engage the brain before the keyboard.

g.willikers · September 20, 2014, 11:27 AM

Did you happen to get some .380 cases mixed up with the 9s?

Nick_C_S · September 20, 2014, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Did you happen to get some .380 cases mixed up with the 9s?

. . . ^^ That'll do it. ^^

From every hypothesis I've seen so far, this one seems the most plausible.

September 19, 2014, 03:37 PM	#1
PiGraph Junior Member Join Date: August 16, 2014 Posts: 3	9mm Luger Hi Everyone... I am new to reloading and have a question. I reloaded some 9mm Luger 115gr RN FMJ. The data told me to use 4.5 gr of Hodgon HP-38. When I put it on the scale and loaded my brass the, it was almost overflowing. Today I did the same thing and the powder only filled the brass 1/2 to 3/4 full. I rechecked the scale several times and that is what came up. The first reloads fired fine out of my gun, but I am curious as to the difference this time. Any thoughts?

September 19, 2014, 04:33 PM	#4
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	hmmmm You need to zero ytour scale and th several then calibrate it. Even then I have seen some wierd weights for some powders published. When I first st and my started loading 9mm I ran into the same problem using Green Dot. What I found is that the wrong weight had been published in one manual. I ran the numbers using other powders in other manuals and found a correct load. I f i personally had a 9mm I would have worked up a load but I dont and I needed to load several thousand for my chiropractor and hit it dead on. One manual simply is not enough. I use 4.2 - 4.4 grains of green dot with a 115 grain bullet and my chiropractor that I have been seeing for more then 20 years loves them. The load is more powerful the the commercial crap he bought. Did you do a plunk test? I use a slight roll crimp.....others here will tell you that all you need is a taper crimp but I have found that that is not the case. When I say slight I mean slight .002 is about it as the cartridge headspaces on the casemouth but it sure makes a difference.

September 19, 2014, 07:15 PM	#6
PiGraph Junior Member Join Date: August 16, 2014 Posts: 3	Thanks @Nick... I am using the RCBS scale that came with my Rock Chucker Supreme kit. Thanks to all for the info... I am not sure what happened with the first reload, except that I may have set it at a higher weight and thought I was only doing 4.5 grs. Lesson learned and I am enjoying reloading I will take apart the ones from the first reload and redo them. I thought it looked weird, but after today I am sure. Thanks again.

September 19, 2014, 08:41 PM	#8
tcoz Member Join Date: July 10, 2014 Location: Bluffton, SC Posts: 30	Gotta be the scale or weighing procedure error. __________________ "Never forget those who have died; Never forget who killed them." -Unknown

September 20, 2014, 11:12 AM	#14
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,534	Good post arizona98tj. Well stated. Okay, so I'm at home and I decided to trickle out 4.5g of HP-38 (W231 actually - they're the same powder, under a different label, as previously stated by Worc), and put it in a 9mm case (it's a Remington-Peters "R-P" headstamp case), to see the actual fill level. Here are the pics: [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] Excusing the lousy photography, 4.5g W231 fills a 9mm case something very close to half way. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

September 19, 2014, 04:19 PM	#3
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	Did you zero your scale prior to measuring?

September 19, 2014, 04:45 PM	#5
boltomatic Member Join Date: March 25, 2014 Posts: 98	4.5 grains of hp-38 is a normal charge and will NOT overflow your case, your powder measure is definitely dropping too much powder. 1) After you adjust your powder measure, you need to let it cycle 4 or five times for the adjustment to take effect. Just drop a charge and instead of seatring a bullet dump the powder back into the hopper and repeat a few times. On the 4th or 4th time, dump the powder onto your scale and see where you are at. 2) Are you using the right powder bar? My press (Dillon 550b) came with a small powder bar for dropping small weights and a large powder bar for rifle rounds that take 20+grains. If you are using the large bar to drop 4.5grains, it will probably be inconsistent.

September 19, 2014, 07:18 PM	#7
PiGraph Junior Member Join Date: August 16, 2014 Posts: 3	@boltomatic... I usually will weight drops until I get 4 or 5 with consistency before I charge the casings. I can only think that I had a higher weight set on the scale and didn't see it.

September 19, 2014, 08:50 PM	#9
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	You need one more reloading tool: Ball, Eye, Mark I, One Each. Look into your charged cases, and reject any that are above or below the correct depth of powder. Very fast, very simple, and completely foolproof.

September 19, 2014, 10:10 PM	#10
Worc Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2013 Location: Michigan Posts: 641	I just started reloading the 9 and use a similar recipe as yours. I use Win 231 (4.6 grs) instead which is the same powder as HP-38. I'm using Berry's plated 115gr RN with mixed cases and my powder level has only been 1/2 to 3/4 full. Even with a progressive loaded, I look into each case before I place the bullet in the case. I also weigh the first three powder loads when I start a new batch and about every 24th round after that.

September 19, 2014, 11:49 PM	#11
mchapman Member Join Date: July 29, 2014 Posts: 38	Was there anything in the case prior to filling with powder? I hope that you checked.

September 20, 2014, 08:13 AM	#12
Tony Z Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2013 Location: North Central Pennsyltucky Posts: 749	Make sure it is 4.5 grains and not 45!!!

September 20, 2014, 11:23 AM	#15
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,587	I can see three possibilities. The kit comes with a beam balance. He might have had one of the counterweights a notch out of position, giving him 5.5 or 9.5 grains of powder. He might have had one of the oddball cases that are turning up with a thickened base section. Every once in a while we get a post with a picture of a case with a prominent step halfway down. The bullet is not going to set back against the feed ramp, but there is not as much powder space, either. And I have had cases with debris down in the bottom, not noticed until the powder charge came up way too high. Any road, an observant eye and a suspicious mind saved the day. Would that we had more beginning reloaders who could engage the brain before the keyboard.

September 20, 2014, 11:27 AM	#16
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Did you happen to get some .380 cases mixed up with the 9s? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”