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Old December 14, 2007, 09:57 PM   #26
mountainclmbr
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I vote for 30.06 or 308 depending on what you are shooting for or hunting. If going for varmits you may want something bigger like 375 H&H.


There are really many variables. Action decisions like bolt action, semi-auto, pump action, single shot.

Then there is caliber. The 22LR is the cheapest to target shoot with. For hunting it really depends on game and expected range.

Then there is the open sight vs. optics decision.

I don't think there is any such thing as an all around caliber just as there is no all around tool...except I do my best to make a hammer work for most every thing!
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Old December 14, 2007, 11:46 PM   #27
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I don't think there is any such thing as an all around caliber just as there is no all around tool...except I do my best to make a hammer work for most every thing!

And you’ve never come up against the need for a bigger hammer?
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Old December 14, 2007, 11:52 PM   #28
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Actually the 7.62 has been in use in the military for a long, long time just not as an MBR. The M60 has always used the 7.62 and it has been around for a very long time in fact they were used in the B-17. While at the same time the 30-06 was used in the M1 and the BAR. The ballistics on the two cartridges are pretty much interchangeable. There are some minor differences at the extreme ends of loading ranges. The 30-06 is an older cartridge developed when powders were not as hot and so it needed the longer case. Before the M1 it was used in the 1903 Springfield ( WWI ). Today the .308 reproduces pretty much anything the 06 will do but in a shorter action. The main difference between the two cartridges that the military was interested in was that the .308 was a shorter action than the 30-06.
ronc0011: The standard machinegun in the B-17 and similar WWII bombers was the M2 .50 caliber
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/index.html
The M1919 .30 caliber machine gun was mounted in some of the earlier USAAF fighters but was replaced by the M2.

The M1919 saw service from the end of WWI until the Vietnam war. It was originally chambered in .30-06 but was also chambered in .303, 8mm and yes later in its service life .308.

The M60 was introduced in 1957 and it was and is chambered for NATO 7.62. It was strongly influenced by the WWII German MG42 and MG34 in 7.92mm.


I have fired a National Guard M1919 and can tell you for a fact that the one I shot in 1965 fired .30-06 ammunition.
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Old December 15, 2007, 12:48 AM   #29
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First rifle ... what's the best all around caliber
The 30.06..... And no one can disprove that. The question has been asked time and time again. Do the homework and see for yourself. The 30.06, IS the all around caliber.
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Old December 15, 2007, 12:55 AM   #30
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.30-06 seems to be quite popular with hunters - get a Garand.
C'mon! The guy asked a serious question. That's like saying GM vehicles are popular so his first car should be a Humvee!

My first hunting rifle was a .303 Enfield Mk 1 no. 3 and it was not quite as heavy, awkward and out of place as a Garand. My misses with the .303 were extraordinarily dramatic and worthy of much singing by the vikings at the mead hall.

Best bet for a first hunting rifle should be something lighter, bolt action and in a lighter caliber. Jack O'Connor used to swear by the .270.

Maybe a Ruger, CZ, Savage or Tikka? As for a Garand, might as well just get a drunken viking to hit you with a 2x4.
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Old December 15, 2007, 02:00 AM   #31
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Id go with an 06 and Id like to say "the gov't did NOT give up on it" like someone else said. They use the 7.62 NATO in some auto's because of the shorter action NOT because it's a better round because it isn't. You aren't shooting a full auto so that means notta to you. In most cases the 06 is shooting about 200 fps FASTER than the .308. This probably won't matter a hill of beans until you're shooting 200 or 220 gr. bullets which you may never do.
The 06 is OVER 100 years old and still going strong. You can buy 240 rounds of the stuff in FMJ from CMP for about 55 bucks, that's a deal!
I have owned MANY over the years and still own 2. A BAR and 1917 Enfield made by Winchester, love em both. I wished I kept the Springfield and Garand but that's another story.
If I were you Id look at Remington 700's, Browning A bolts, CZ's, quality used 70's and even a BAR. LOTS of quality guns out there. Scope it and have fun, BTW a good .22 to plink with is NOT a bad idea. Just remember, that 06 will penetrate and keep going where that .22 bounces off.
If you're recoil sensitive you might want to punt and look at .243's and 7mm-08.
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Old December 15, 2007, 02:03 AM   #32
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The 30.06..... And no one can disprove that. The question has been asked time and time again. Do the homework and see for yourself. The 30.06, IS the all around caliber.
Hold on...I'm grabbing some popcorn. Ok...now I'm ready. I can hear the magnum keyboards warming up.....

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Old December 15, 2007, 08:33 AM   #33
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My choices would be as follows:
1. Cooper, Mdl 57, Classic
2. Weatherby, Mark V, Euromark
3. Browning Highwall

Caliber: 30-06
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Old December 15, 2007, 10:39 AM   #34
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The M1919A4 in 7.62 was also deployed on the B17 along with the M2. ( I have one of those books about the Flying Fortress )
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Old December 15, 2007, 10:56 AM   #35
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The question isn't what is the better U.S. military cartridge, but what is the best all around hunting cartridge, and that question can only be answered with another one. What are you hunting? There is no best all around hunting cartidge if you don't even know what continent you will be hunting.
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Old December 15, 2007, 11:19 AM   #36
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In North America a quality 30-06 bolt action rifle with either a Ruger or S&W Revolver in .41 Mag on your hip as back-up will suffice.
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Old December 15, 2007, 12:24 PM   #37
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I have asked the same question to many experienced locals at my range, and most all of them said .30-06. Two weeks later I went out and bought myself a Savage 110 in .30-06. I made my "range buddies" proud

If you do a search like I did for 30-06, you will have enough reading to keep you busy for AWHILE!
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Old December 15, 2007, 12:57 PM   #38
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Thanks for this post ... As well as all the others Lot's of info to absorb here.

Quote:
wakerider017
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To the guys recommending a 22lr...

The original poster asked for the "best all around caliber for hunting."


This is DEFINITELY not the 22lr. In most states rimfire is illegal to hunt medium/large game with.

22lr's are cool to learn on punching paper or shooting small animals, and the ammo is dirt cheap, but they are not something you want to bring on a deer hunt.
I guess I might have wanted to elaborate on my experience as a firearms owner.

I have 8 different handguns , most are .357's and .45acp along with a snub nose .38 and a .22 I love to plink with.

I also have a few shotguns that I regularly use magnum rounds with.

I'm just now getting into wanting a rifle for hunting which may seem odd , not owning one while owning more than a few other firearms.

Yes, this will be my first rifle .... but definitely not my first gun.

I don't want to skimp ... I thought $1000-1500 would be a good range for a quality rifle. More of course for the scope unless I can find a nice used deal with scope.

I almost bought a used Weatherby Mk V .300 with Leupold scope for $1799.00 from Cabela's gun library , but when I went back for it ... it was sold.

I wasn't too sure about the .300 caliber anyway.

I'm looking for a solid all around caliber (Which sounds like that 30-06) in a solidly built, accurate and reliable gun.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

Last edited by PetreTG; December 15, 2007 at 12:58 PM. Reason: wanted to elaborate more.
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Old December 15, 2007, 01:01 PM   #39
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Id go with an 06 and Id like to say "the gov't did NOT give up on it" like someone else said.
What weapon is currently using the 06 in combat that US troops are using?
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Old December 15, 2007, 01:05 PM   #40
PetreTG
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Quote:
RJM
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The question isn't what is the better U.S. military cartridge, but what is the best all around hunting cartridge, and that question can only be answered with another one. What are you hunting? There is no best all around hunting cartidge if you don't even know what continent you will be hunting.
Good question ...

I was hoping I could find an all around cartridge for Dear, Elk, Moose, Ram ... etc etc.

Something that will take down a bear if necessary , but I think my long barreled .357 magnum will probably work in a pinch for that. (Or at least deter an attack at close range)
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Old December 15, 2007, 01:12 PM   #41
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Quote:
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May I suggest the Ar-50 In 50 BMG. Yeah sure its a little overkill for Squirrels and rabbits, but deer and pigs simply explode with even a near miss. Ammo is a bit expensive though. May I suggest earplugs? Here is a nice pic.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BMG1.jpg (4.9 KB, 18 views)
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Old December 15, 2007, 01:56 PM   #42
Makarov9x
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30-30

I'll go with the ole reliable 30-30. More deer have been killed with this caliber than any other. Not alot of choices in rifles but I love my Marlin 336. It does just about everything I need it to do. Its very light, compact, easy to shoot and low recoil. Also ammo is easy to find and inexpensive.


Mak
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Old December 15, 2007, 02:11 PM   #43
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cooper or Kimber

1 rifle that will never let you down and for $800-$1000 always get your money back on either of these.
I vote the 270 caliber does everything with a properly placed shot and small enough to start out a 13-14 year old son without sending them into kicker shock!
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Old December 16, 2007, 09:48 AM   #44
Art Eatman
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For a first-rifle novice, I guess I'd recommend not one rifle but two.

First and more important of the two, a .22 bolt-action to learn the techniques of becoming proficient at low cost. For us Old Pharts, the beginning was around age 8 or 9 or thereabouts, and we had some years of experience before graduating to centerfire. I was sixteen when I was given my first .30-'06.

I started handloading that same year, and the '06 has been my primary "go to" cartridge ever since. Lots of other funtoys through the years, but that old dinosaur has always been "Old Reliable" for me.

Brand? Hardly matters. Today's machine tools make it difficult to produce an inaccurate rifle. Find whatever critter fits your body, and has a finish and appearance that is pleasing to you.

A sorta-warning: The '06 does well with A 24" or slightly longer barrel. The .308 is near the '06 performance with the typical bullets used for deer, but does okay for performance with barrels of 20" to 22". The .308 would probably do quite well for you when deer hunting in Wisconsin. (I'm not gonna go into all the "why" at this stage. Bear with me. )

And don't be in a hurry.

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Old December 16, 2007, 10:58 AM   #45
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.30-30 is all you need. It will do everything with less fuss, no recoil, and with less expense.
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Old December 16, 2007, 04:27 PM   #46
PetreTG
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Again ... Thank you for all the advice guys!

Great site!

I think I will stick with a .30-06 .... sounds like something I won't grow out of or be disappointed in.

I really don't think I'll have a hard time with recoil , I'm a pretty tough guy at 6' 230lbs of SOLID MUSCLE ... Ruff Rufff!!

No but seriously ... I want one gun I will be happy with for the long haul. I'll learn to use it properly no problem I think.

I was looking at some Saur's and Sako's that both looked nice to me ... any opinions on these ?

Sauer Model 200 .30-06 Rifle and Sako Model 75 Deluxe King Ranch Heritage Series in .30-06 .... thoughts ???
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Old December 16, 2007, 08:01 PM   #47
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Nice choice with the .30-06. You will not be disappointed.

I am the same height as you, but about 60 lbs lighter. Recoil should not be a big problem..


Although I have no personal experience with Sako rifles I have heard they are very nice!

I am not sure what the Deluxe King Ranch Heritage Series is... (I think the Hunter model is pretty popular) The 75's are the older models I believe.

There is supposed to be little difference between the Sako 75's and the newer 85's.


Make sure you give the Reminton 700's a look! I love my CDL. They are a beautiful rifle and quite a bit cheaper than the Sako's. Gives you more money to spend on glass.
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Old December 16, 2007, 08:06 PM   #48
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Retired the Old 30-06 for a Ruger 25-06. I'tll do just about everyting I need to do for small to medium game and it's fun to shoot.
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Old December 16, 2007, 08:35 PM   #49
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I am the same height as you, but about 60 lbs lighter. Recoil should not be a big problem..
A person's tolerance level to recoil is unrelated to their stature or weight.
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Old December 17, 2007, 12:06 AM   #50
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The bigger the person the less felt recoil. (mass) Just like the heavier the gun the less felt recoil.

Also has to do with stance, recoil pads and other things...

But a 12yr old kid is going to say a 30/06 kicks like a mule, while a 40yr old says it is no big deal.

It is all physics, transfer of equal and opposite energy... I don't think a guy that is 230lbs will have any problems with this gun.
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