Ever get kicked out of a CCW class?

[CCCLVII]

I try to take a CCW class every year. This last year I was doing some SAS near where my brother lives and he expressed interest in taking a class with me. I check online and there was a class last week. Typically I carry a 1911 but because of the cowboy shooting I was doing decided to only bring my cowboy guns.

I get to the class and we sit and listen for a while and it is clear the teacher favors auto (for good reason) and he talked only for a short time on revolvers in general all of which was double action. We go to lunch and I go to talk to the teacher. I express privately that the only gun I have at this class is a single action revolver. He was polite but he asked me to leave the class and offered a refund. He expressed that he did not feel a single action revolver was an adiquite weapon for self defence.

I was a bit offended because I practice a great deal with my Uberti and I know what I am capable of with it. I feel that I am probably better with the single action that many people in that same class are with there autos.

Any way I took the refund and left with out saying much more. My brother stayed in the class and said that after lunch the teacher talked for about 30 min on how a single action revolver should never be considered for self defence.

The teacher was polite and seemed very informed about autos but I feel he was out of line by not being willing to accept me and my gun in the class. What if I had been a new shooter that only had the one gun. Should I not be allowed to carry it for defence?

[zombietactics]

Unless someone is especially well skilled, a single-action-only revolver is not a good choice for self-defense.

It's not a question of what is "possible", or of what some person in particular can accomplish. We all know what Jerry Miculek can do with a single-action-revolver, and it's really besides the point

We can all make a case for why a sub-optimal solution might work in some case, but that's not the point either. I can rub two sticks together to start a fire, but I am carrying matches or a lighter when I go camping, numsayin?

If I were the instructor, I might have not asked you to leave the class. I would have made it clear that you'd be expected to keep up with the rest of the class, and shoot to the same standards as everyone else, with absolutely zero room for excuses.

[g.willikers]

A legitimate reason he might have had for not wanting you and your sixgun in the class was if his class plan didn't have provisions for it.
And he didn't want to try to reinvent things on the fly.
Kind of like a student showing up for an AR class with a lever action rifle.
The instructor has to be ready for it, and he obviously wasn't.

[robhof]

I got kicked out in a Florida class, because the instructor was teaching to state that you have a gun and will shoot, before shooting at the target. I shot 1st and then uttered the message, the instructor went ballistic and I stated that in my house that is the way I will warn an intruder, rather than get shot while warning the perp, then I was told to leave... no such problem in my class here in Ky!!

[Model12Win]

Unless you are Jerry Michalek, a single action revolver is not what you want in your hands in a modern gun battle. Even double-action revolvers are not recommended. Modern semi-automatic pistols are advanced enough that they are easily as reliable as any revolver. I've had more issues with revolvers over the years than with any Glock pistol I've shot.

I don't think the CCW instructor should have ran you out of the class... but in this day and age I wholly agree with him, a single action revolver is probably the least effective firearm a person could carry for self defense, excluding something like a two shot derringer.

Perhaps this will serve as a wake-up call for you. If you don't already own one I HIGHLY suggest you obtain one of the many excellent semi-auto pistols on the market. even if you have to sell the cowboy gun.

You will not regret it.

[FireForged]

There are instructors and then there are instructors who have taken a 1-2 or 3 day class as the extent of their self defense handgun knowledge. There is a gun class being taught on nearly every street corner in American and term instructor can at times, be use rather loosely.

On the single action pistol... is it a useful tool in self defense, sure. Can it be effective in that role? Sure, it has been for more than 100 years. I wouldn't have wanted to tell Gen George Patton that his single action army was not a good choice for him. Is it practical to use in your typical SD class drills? No. Are there better options? I think so... but that doesn't mean that a single action pistol is not a good choice. It wouldn't be a good choice for me personally but if I had to fight with one, I would not cry about it as most citizen SD events have a very low round count.

What was this specific class you are talking about.. Basic 101 stuff or what?

[CCCLVII]

Perhaps this will serve as a wake-up call for you. If you don't already own one I HIGHLY suggest you obtain one of the many excellent semi-auto pistols on the market. even if you have to sell the cowboy gun.

As I stated in the original post I have other guns I just did not there. I usually carry a 1911

I shoot in SAS and I would venture to guess that I could have out shot most of that class with my 6 gun.

I think its wrong to tell some one they should sell a gun that there father bought them. I could never sell that gun!

The class was a basic entry level CCW class that is required for Utah. It was very simple such as knowing the difference in open and Conciled carry. It Covered the laws for when you can and can not shoot. It also covered basic shooting such as stance and grip. My Brother said that at the range part they stood about 7 yards from a target and just shot at it to get a feel for there gun. I could of easily done that with my single action.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by g.willikers

A legitimate reason he might have had for not wanting you and your sixgun in the class was if his class plan didn't have provisions for it.
And he didn't want to try to reinvent things on the fly....

That's very likely the case. Also, the instructor himself might not have felt prepared or qualified to teach the use of a single action revolver for self defense. That would be a fairly specialized class.

In fact I believe that Clint Smith teaches or has taught a special class specifically in the use of a single action revolver for self defense.

[Deja vu]

I believe that a basic CCW class should teach to what the students have. Many people only have 1 pistol. Often times selling it for a more combat related weapon is out of the question.

Now I can understand that you should not take an AR class with your lever gun but this is a general class. Unless there is a law in Utah about not carrying a single action revolver then it should be part of the class. For many years my only handgun was a single action revolver.

While a gun may not be the best option it may be the only option some people have.

[Microgunner]

You brought a typewriter to a computer class.
You shouldn't have been offended.

[Deja vu]

You brought a typewriter to a computer class.
You shouldn't have been offended.

I dont think that was the case at all. It was a general all purpose class. Its like bringing typewriter to a typing class. Sure a computer is better but they both type.

[BigD_in_FL]

Unless someone is especially well skilled, a single-action-only revolver is not a good choice for self-defense.

Sorry, but a direct hit from a SA 44 beats 17 misses from a Glock

[Tinner666]

I can't see getting tossed from the class.
I've carried SA for self defense. I carry a Glock as a rule, not because it's better, but because i could care less how rusted or scratched it gets. Well, I care, but not as much and can't see any collector value in a G19 or G26.
SA gets into action as fast as a Glock or 1911. Hammer goes back as I draw. I thnk it's faster than sweeping a safety.

[tomrkba]

Was this a concealed carry permit class or a defensive handgun course? The permit classes are a notification of the law and some states include a very easy shooting test. A single action gun would not matter under those circumstances.

A defensive course is a whole different situation. Running one of those requires quite a bit of skill to keep up. A few gun schools have offered defensive single action revolver courses in the past.

[Sarge]

In MO you have to demonstrate familiarization and skill with both an auto and a revolver. I've got .22 loaners for both. I don't particularly care what you bring as long as you're safe with it and it isn't ridiculous on its face.

I hand out a questionnaire to prospective students, to get a feel for them before class. I have DQ'ed a couple based on that questionnaire and I will boot folks for unsafe or disruptive conduct. But not for bringing a SA revolver. It's up to you to decide what you ought to carry to protect yourself.

[amd6547]

I use either an auto or a DA revolver for carry. On at least on occasion my carry pistol was a Ruger SA 45colt...I was on a family vacation where we stayed in a rented cabin in Black bear country. I didn't want to bring more than one firearm, and brought the one that could handle all threats.
I think the instructor was wrong...as are some of the poster in this thread who seem to think that even a DA revolver should not be used for carry.
A great number of people carry J-frames as their only daily carry.
I often carry a 3" GP100 and feel just as well armed as I do with my glock 26.
A person who knows how to manipulate a SA revolver would be a dangerous opponent to face, even with the latest VundarPistol.

[zombietactics]

"... Sorry, but a direct hit from a SA 44 beats 17 misses from a Glock ..."

Is there any special reason why we should expect this to be the case? If not, what logical argument does this statement present, regarding the utility of the hardware itself? It seems to be a comment regarding the skill of the shooter rather than the gun being shot. Is there some reason to believe that a person with equal amounts of training would miss with one gun and not the other?

The difference in the guns themselves is that 6 misses with the SA44 means you are out of the fight. With the Glock it means you have 12 more chances to do something useful.

[Dragline45]

Unless you are Jerry Michalek, a single action revolver is not what you want in your hands in a modern gun battle. Even double-action revolvers are not recommended.

Name me one instructor, credible instructor that is, that recommends against DA revolvers. A DA revolver in the hands of an experienced shooter is equally as effective as an auto. And a CCW class does not prepare you for a "gun battle".

To the OP, I think it was ignorant for the instructor to ask you to leave the class. He has no idea how qualified and how much experience you may have with SA revolvers, and as you stated you are probably right that you could out shoot many of the other participants in the class with their auto's if you do indeed practice with your SA.

[Yung.gunr]

I think he was a little over the top on asking you to leave. I would feel a better alternative would be to just let you know right then and there would be the point to leave with a refund. If you didn't pass whatever test/requirement there would be no refund or special exception made. I feel that was very closed minded of him.

[seeker_two]

As with most prejudices, your instructor seems to lack education on how to run a SA revolver effectively...as well as knowing a .45-caliber bullet hits just as hard from a SAA as it does from a self-shucker.

Probably a good thing that he refunded your money....seems like a waste of good learning time....

[Frank Ettin]

Semi-autos, double action revolvers and single action revolvers can all be effective for self defense. To use them most effectively, one needs to know and understand how to use them most effectively. And to teach one how to best use a semi-auto, double action revolver or a single action revolver, an instructor needs to both know how to use the particular type of gun effectively and understand how best to teach those techniques.

If this instructor did not think he was up to the task of teaching the defensive use of a single action revolver, IMO it's to his credit that he declined the enrollment and offered to refund the fee. That's a much more ethical result than taking the money and doing a poor job of instructing.

Originally Posted by seeker_two

As with most prejudices, your instructor seems to lack education on how to run a SA revolver effectively...as well as knowing a .45-caliber bullet hits just as hard from a SAA as it does from a self-shucker....

What a snarky and totally inappropriate way to put it. True, the instructor might not have sufficient knowledge and experience running a single action revolver for self defense use. But I dare say that many highly regarded self defense firearms instructors have little experience with single action revolvers for self defense use.

Clint Smith I know is an exception, but I also know that he has made a special effort to study the topic.

Also, the single action revolver classes I've heard about have been just for single action revolvers. I could see difficulties trying to deal with the unique characteristics if a single action revolve in a "mixed gun" class.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by Deja vu

I dont think that was the case at all. It was a general all purpose class. Its like bringing typewriter to a typing class. Sure a computer is better but they both type.

I agree 100% with Deja vu. While it's not the ideal self-defense gun by any means, I know several people who could outshoot most semi-auto-carrying CCWers with a single-action revolver in terms of overall accurate rounds on target within a given time. And that's including reloads.

Originally Posted by zombietactics

If I were the instructor, I might have not asked you to leave the class. I would have made it clear that you'd be expected to keep up with the rest of the class, and shoot to the same standards as everyone else, with absolutely zero room for excuses.

This is what the instructor should have done. A single action revolver can do the job, it just requires a lot more skill on the part of the shooter. If the shooter has the skill to keep up, what's wrong with using a single-action revolver?

[Venom1956]

Well honestly this thread sounded worse then it really was...

Honestly if you agree or not as far as I can tell the instructor was polite and offered a refund and explained his reasons.

I agree with those above either

1. He honestly believed that a SA was not an acceptable weapon
2. As said above he didn't feel comfortable (or unable) training you in it.
3. Lastly he doesn't know your skill level or knowledge for all he knows it could be your grandfathers SAA and you've never shot a gun before or know how to work it.

There is a surprising number of gun owners that buy something with little knowledge of how it works or how to use it properly he could be protecting himself and his students from the unknown.

[Pahoo]

The teacher was polite and seemed very informed about autos but I feel he was out of line by not being willing to accept me and my gun in the class

I know it's hard to accept and I don't think he was trying to insult you or make you feel rejected. I feel that the reality is that a SA just did not fit well into "his" agenda. I have even seen this when they are trying to include DA revolvers. Many of the exercises are geared more toward autos. For instance, having to deal with speed loaders as oppose to the continuity of switching mags. You certainly have a right to use whatever you wish and really not meant to be personal. .....

It does bring up a good point as to what requirements or restrictions, going into an instructor's class. For instance, no .22's allowed, no reloads and one class required a minimum of 300 rds. ...

Be Safe !!!

[SVTCobra306]

I can't see ejecting a student for having a single action. One of the basic tenets of carrying includes the fact that any gun is better than no gun, though different types might require different accessories. I would personally consider and recommend a backup gun if carrying a single action, but there is no way I would discount the single action revolver as an irrelevant carry gun. In the pistol world, and particularly among every day carriers, opinions are everywhere, and no two are alike, and no one is completely wrong. If you are comfortable with using and carrying a single action, you're actually ahead of some of the people carrying the "better" autos that are not as comfortable or experienced with them.

If the class required a qualification that meant you needed to hit 10 targets in 10-15 seconds, I would be highly advising you to reconsider, but if there is not a hit/time requirement and the firing session is primarily for familiarization, there is no need for concern over action type.

In reality a revolver can be highly effective. How many people do you suppose throw an LCP (or TCP, or bodyguard, or J frame) in their pocket and don't bother with an extra mag? The number is higher than one would think, and none of them are outgunning a single action revolver.

My question to the OP is what can you take away from this? I do like your idea of taking multiple classes when you can, it's something I do as well, even as an instructor myself. I have found that I can take away something new from just about any class I take as long as the instructor has some experience with the subject matter.