Remington green box .45LC is it a cowboy load?

[w_houle]

IIRC it is a 230 gr LSWC of course at almost $40 for a box of 50 I am feel as though I am getting the... Anyway, it's the only thing going except for online. Yeah I'd get bent over the barrel on this one because I would like to see the old guy stay around (not Mega Lo Mart),but anyway. I wasn't sure if the rounds were safe through my R&D cylinder. Any words?

[Hafoc]

I didn't go through and search all brands, but according to some data I found online Remington's Express ammo claims MV of 850 fps with a 250 grain round nose, 960 fps for the 225 gr. semi-wadcutter. The other two lines of handgun ammo Remington offers, Golden Sabre and Core-Lokt, don't enter into it because they use jacketed bullets.

By comparison the Black Hills .45 Colt cowboy load claims 725 fps with a 250 grain round nose.

If I remember correctly, CAS calls for all-lead bullets at under 1000 fps. If so, any of these would meet the rules, although one of the Remingtons just barely. But both the Remingtons are hotter than anything I'd expect to see called a cowboy load.

[Hawg]

They should be fine, just stay away from the jacketed stuff.

[CraigC]

No, those are loaded to SAAMI-spec pressures and about as close as you'll get to original blackpowder ballistics in a factory load. Above that of typical "cowboy" loads. You might wanna contact R&D about using them in your conversion cylinder. My guess is that would say no.

[Hawg]

No, those are loaded to SAAMI-spec pressures and about as close as you'll get to original blackpowder ballistics in a factory load.

Factories load ammo to original pressures to prevent damage to original guns. With better quality steel in modern guns as long as those pressures aren't exceeded I don't see a problem

From R&D site.

The Remington cylinder is constructed of 4150 Arsenal Grade steel, which is certified for firearms use and is pre-hardened, requiring the use of carbide cutters to machine. Kenny didn't "have" to use this high grade of a steel, he choose to because he has a reputation for the best and will offer nothing less.

I really don't see a problem now.

[sundance44s]

Those Remingtons are jacketed bullets aren`t they ??? better have a look ..stay away from jacketed bullets with a conversion cylinder ...it`s a dead give away they are too hot .

[Hawg]

He said LSWC. That's what I was going on. I agree not to use jacketed bullets in a conversion.

[sundance44s]

Hawg he did say LSWC ..I over looked it my mistake..only Remington bullets I`ve seen around here are copper jacket .for that price .
I`ve loaded some lead semi wad cutters for my conversion cylinders ..they shot well out of my Remmies, they were good paper punchers ...shot alot straighter than I was expecting .

[CraigC]

Factories load ammo to original pressures to prevent damage to original guns. With better quality steel in modern guns as long as those pressures aren't exceeded I don't see a problem

True and in any other situation I would agree but doesn't R&D specifically recommend cowboy loads only in these guns? In other words, loads below SAAMI pressure standards? "Modern steel" is meaningless without knowing exactly what alloy is being used and its heat treatment. Just because it's "modern", doesn't necessarily make it better or stronger. These guns were not originally produced in .45Colt so we have no historical basis for drawing any conclusions. I would strongly suggest following R&D's recommendations, whatever they may be. Kenny Howell has been building these guns since long before it was fashionable.

[Hawg]

Craig, you're right. I should have checked further.

R&D Industrial Mach., LLC conversion units’ warranty will not extend to the use of ‘hand loaded’ ammunition. Use only factory loaded ‘Cowboy’ ammunition in the conversion units. Only lead bullets are to be used in the R&D conversion units, DO NOT USE JACKETED OR SEMI-JACKETEDBULLETS in any R&D conversion cylinder! The only ammunition recommended by R&D Gun Shop, Inc. is the ‘Cowboy Loads’ by BLACK HILLS AMMUNITION (smokeless) and GOEX/Black Dawge Cartridge (Black Powder).

[CraigC]

I hoped I was remembering it right!

That's one reason why I don't understand folks buying conversion cylinders for percussion guns where it has to be disassembled to be reloaded when almost all of them are available as factory cartridge conversions. Especially now with the new Remington conversion. They're compatible with any factory load, are almost completely authentic and have a handy, dandy ejector!

[Hawg]

Authenticity for one thing and it's still faster than loading powder and ball. Getting around Uncle Sam is another thing. They don't do much for me but I'd love to have one of the open tops with the loading gate and ejector.

[CraigC]

Conversion cylinders are authentic???

[sundance44s]

little history on conversion cylinders http://www.armsportllc.com/conversions.htm

[B. Lahey]

If by "cowboy" you mean loaded mostly with cornmeal so that you get the ballistics of a .22lr, then no, they are not "cowboy".

[Hawg]

A little more thorough history. http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/history.html Somebody was making conversion cylinders before 1870 but I can't remember who and can't find it. They were similar to the Kirst tho.

[timothy75]

Remington made conversions without ejectors that were very similar to the R&D and required dissassembly to load.

[Hawg]

Remington made conversions without ejectors that were very similar to the R&D and required dissassembly to load.

If you'd read the article in my link you'd know that was already covered.

Somebody was making conversion cylinders before 1870 but I can't remember who

I guess I was thinking of the Tranter conversion but I thought there was an American Co. making conversions too.

[CraigC]

I knew that Remington did conversions without ejectors but I did not know that they originally did have versions with two piece cylinders. The rear plate containing one floating firing pin for each chamber. Kenny Howell actually used the experimental Springfield Armory conversion as a basis for his conversion cylinders. I guess most of my study has revolved around Colt conversions. I need to pay attention!

[Hawg]

I need to pay attention

Sometimes we all do.

[sundance44s]

Remington produced the 1858 pistol untill 1875 when they made the 1875 cartridge pistol ..from 1868/69 to 1875 these 1858`s were converted to fire the cartridges .

[CraigC]

little history on conversion cylinders http://www.armsportllc.com/conversions.htm

Remington produced the 1858 pistol untill 1875 when they made the 1875 cartridge pistol ..from 1868/69 to 1875 these 1858`s were converted to fire the cartridges .

Yes, I know all about cartridge conversions, I've been focused on them for a couple years now. What I didn't realize, because I have not done much reading on the Remingtons, is that they originally used two piece cylinders similar to the R&D on some versions. So I don't think I need any more basic history lessons.

[sundance44s]

Craigc ..sorry wasn`t meaning to say you didn`t know ..my post was really for those who seem to think the cartridge conversion is a modern invention and not ment to be used in cap and ball revolvers . They could be a pain in the arse used on a Colt but they go together like peas and carrots in a Remington for sure ..I much prefer shooting my 1858`s with cartridge conversion rather than my 1873 colt Peacemaker..The Remmie fits my hand better , and I can load and unload as fast sometimes faster .

[w_houle]

Well I went ahead and bought the box, and there is a slight OAL issue. The R&D cylinder is a just a slight bit longer than the original cylinder, so when I put the cylinder pin in there is no gap at all between the cylinder and the barrel. When I pull the hammer back the tips of the bullets drag on the barrel.

[sundance44s]

Yep the OAL can be a real problem with the conversion cylinders ..I reload so it isn`t hard to fix ..With the face of the bullet dragging against the forceing cone , you`ll have lock up problems for sure ...might ought to take those back ..