bullet creep

Jeff2131 · December 11, 2013, 06:07 PM

Just a question as i just read a thread regarding bullet creep on a 44 mag. Does bullet creep occur in only revolvers or is this or should this be a concern in other firearms....such as an AR10 or something of high caliber/recoil.

Wreck-n-Crew · December 11, 2013, 06:51 PM

The problems with .44 magnum was the type of crimp IMO which is different than the crimp in a .223/556 for example as they use a collet crimp for the get go. If there are issues with creep on them it is not because of the crimp type.
Roll crimping (commonly used in pistol calibers) can cause the casing to bulge on the backside of the crimp and doesn't hold as well. When it comes to .44 and .357 I suggest using a collet crimp die .

LE-28 · December 11, 2013, 06:52 PM

It can happen in any cartridge with insuficent neck tension to hold the bullet in place under recoil.

Hammerhead · December 12, 2013, 02:13 AM

In revolvers bullets can pull (creep) forward under recoil.
In auto pistols bullets can get set back into the case from hitting the feed ramp. Power level doesn't matter there, it's the recoil spring doing the damage.

Not sure about high power rifles, don't shoot them, but I know bullet tips can be damaged in rifle magazines from the recoil, plus the feed cycle, so there must be some potential for set back there.

Good bullet tension and the proper amount of crimp also benefit powder combustion, especially so in magnum revolver loads.

MTT TL · December 12, 2013, 08:15 AM

Set back is not normally a problem in AR style rifles.

Archie · December 12, 2013, 06:56 PM

Revolver bullets tend to creep out of the case; the revolver acts like a large, recoil powered bullet puller. Heavy recoiling double rifles can act like a revolver and 'pull' the bullet of the unfired round in the second chamber/barrel. It doesn't bother me as I do not have a double rifle, let alone a double in a big-game caliber. Since inertia is the movement factor, heavier bullets are affected more than lighter bullets.

Semi-automatic bullets tend to get pushed into the case. This happens as Hammerhead mentioned, on bumping into the feed ramp, and both pistol and rifle bullets get pushed into the case in the magazine, under the back and forth thumping of recoil. This only applies to rifles with magazines, obviously. Tubular magazines are high on the list.

Heavy recoiling bolt action rifles will bang the rounds in the magazine back and forth pretty seriously. Some add a 'shoulder rail' in the magazines to set close to the shoulders to prevent bullets from banging into the front of the magazine and being pushed deeper.

The answer to all these problems is a good, tight neck to bullet fit. A decent crimp is seldom out of order, but the neck fit should be the major factor in holding onto the bullet.

December 11, 2013, 06:07 PM	#1
Jeff2131 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Spring City, PA Posts: 497	bullet creep Just a question as i just read a thread regarding bullet creep on a 44 mag. Does bullet creep occur in only revolvers or is this or should this be a concern in other firearms....such as an AR10 or something of high caliber/recoil. __________________ ---I DON'T DIAL 911---

December 11, 2013, 06:51 PM	#2
Wreck-n-Crew Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,820	The problems with .44 magnum was the type of crimp IMO which is different than the crimp in a .223/556 for example as they use a collet crimp for the get go. If there are issues with creep on them it is not because of the crimp type. Roll crimping (commonly used in pistol calibers) can cause the casing to bulge on the backside of the crimp and doesn't hold as well. When it comes to .44 and .357 I suggest using a collet crimp die . __________________ If you ever have to use a firearm, *you don't get to pick the scenario!*

December 12, 2013, 02:13 AM	#4
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	In revolvers bullets can pull (creep) forward under recoil. In auto pistols bullets can get set back into the case from hitting the feed ramp. Power level doesn't matter there, it's the recoil spring doing the damage. Not sure about high power rifles, don't shoot them, but I know bullet tips can be damaged in rifle magazines from the recoil, plus the feed cycle, so there must be some potential for set back there. Good bullet tension and the proper amount of crimp also benefit powder combustion, especially so in magnum revolver loads. Last edited by Hammerhead; December 12, 2013 at 02:23 AM.

December 12, 2013, 08:15 AM	#5
MTT TL Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2009 Location: Quadling Country Posts: 2,780	Set back is not normally a problem in AR style rifles. __________________ Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.

December 12, 2013, 06:56 PM	#6
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Hammerhead has the right concept. Revolver bullets tend to creep out of the case; the revolver acts like a large, recoil powered bullet puller. Heavy recoiling double rifles can act like a revolver and 'pull' the bullet of the unfired round in the second chamber/barrel. It doesn't bother me as I do not have a double rifle, let alone a double in a big-game caliber. Since inertia is the movement factor, heavier bullets are affected more than lighter bullets. Semi-automatic bullets tend to get pushed into the case. This happens as Hammerhead mentioned, on bumping into the feed ramp, and both pistol and rifle bullets get pushed into the case in the magazine, under the back and forth thumping of recoil. This only applies to rifles with magazines, obviously. Tubular magazines are high on the list. Heavy recoiling bolt action rifles will bang the rounds in the magazine back and forth pretty seriously. Some add a 'shoulder rail' in the magazines to set close to the shoulders to prevent bullets from banging into the front of the magazine and being pushed deeper. The answer to all these problems is a good, tight neck to bullet fit. A decent crimp is seldom out of order, but the neck fit should be the major factor in holding onto the bullet. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

December 11, 2013, 06:52 PM	#3
LE-28 Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2012 Location: North Carolina Posts: 759	It can happen in any cartridge with insuficent neck tension to hold the bullet in place under recoil.