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February 10, 2012, 02:31 PM | #1 |
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Gun show lower receiver question?
Hi everyone! I've been lurking for a while learning as much as I can. I am planning to do a 10.5" ar pistol build soon with the intention of registering/converting to a SBR after setting up a trust and receiving the stamp.
I know from what I've seen posted here that stripped lower receivers need not be marked pistol only and that when a dealer transfers to me it will be listed as "other" on the form 4473. This will allow me to build it out as either in the future. There is a gun show in town tomorrow and while I do not normally attend these I was thinking I may go look around. If i find a receiver there from what I remember from gun shows years ago there is no paperwork involved. Cash and carry here in SC. Would this potentially cause me any issues with being able to build as a pistol or register as a rifle? |
February 10, 2012, 02:41 PM | #2 | |
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February 10, 2012, 02:43 PM | #3 |
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::Edit:: it's been a few years as I stated. After talking to someone that was at a recent show it sounds like SC now requires all the paperwork to be filled out at shows so it will not be an issue. It was more than likely in place even years ago when I last attended but I bought a used rifle from an individual then so it would explain the lack of paperwork.
For curiosity sake, would a used lower from an individual cause issue? They are so inexpensive that I would probably not buy a used one, but curious anyhow. Sorry for a dumb post, just wanted to make sure that I did not mess up. |
February 10, 2012, 05:41 PM | #4 |
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I have a table at the Greenville show tomorrow, I sell custom knives and some rifles I've picked up. At the last show in December, there were quite a few people selling new lowers from their "private collections", so there's no paperwork involved.
Stop by and see me, I'll be the big guy with red hair selling custom knives and a few rifles |
February 10, 2012, 06:36 PM | #5 | |
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If the used lower was a rifle, there are restrictions on making pistols from rifles. You could just get a lower, engrave and form 1 it and forget about wasting time with it in pistol configuration.
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February 10, 2012, 11:05 PM | #6 |
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Coolhand, if I make it out I'll say hello. I am also a big guy with red hair, hard to miss.
Gunshows are not usually my thing but I hope to at least find a few deals on powder/primers/bullets. Thanks everyone, and again, apologize for the ridiculous post. |
February 11, 2012, 01:08 PM | #7 | |
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The receiver doesn't need to be labeled pistol. When the dealer sells it, he notes it as just a recevier. As long as it hasn't had a stock mounted on it, you'll be fine.
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February 11, 2012, 01:17 PM | #8 |
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I believe that Ridge Runner is correct. If you are dealer you will be endangering your FFL selling from your "private collection" at any show or industry event. It is very very difficult for an FFL dealer to claim private transaction. I have family that are dealers and he will not even do a private transaction for me to buy back a turkey gun I sold him before he had his FFL.
Last edited by DougU; February 11, 2012 at 03:38 PM. |
February 12, 2012, 11:22 AM | #9 |
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Thanks everyone. Gun show was a bust, oddly enough only a few tables selling a handful of lowers and could not find anyone selling pistol uppers.
I did almost pull the trigger on a suppressor but went with my gut and did not make a split second decision. This particular dealer was offering Gemtech Trek's for $550 and setting up trust for $50 if I bought the suppressor from him. He claimed to have a flawless track record with atf approving his trust, but with all that I have read lately about the atf getting picky I decided to come home and research the dealer some more and most likely use a real lawyer. As others have stated and I agree, I don't mind paying for some peace of mind and the whole thing seemed interesting but fishy to me. On a side note.. After talking with the handful of suppressor dealers, all of whom conveniently did not sell take apart suppressors they all warned me of the "dangers" of a take apart, pressure, blow ups etc if not tightly reassembled. Sales tactic right? A take apart is preferred for cleaning correct? |
February 12, 2012, 01:06 PM | #10 |
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A take apart for what caliber?
I won't buy a .22 can I can't take apart. A few years ago it was said that a sealed 9mm can was the way to go. Now user serviceable cans are coming into vogue. Both of my 9mm cans are sealed and I'm happy with them. I may change my mind after I run 5000 more rounds through them. For 5.56 or 7.62x51, the best cans are all welded up tight. There won't be any taking them apart.
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February 12, 2012, 02:34 PM | #11 | |||||
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February 12, 2012, 11:09 PM | #12 | |
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The ATF has said that you can turn a rifle into a pistol and back again as many times as you want, though. |
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February 13, 2012, 01:39 PM | #13 |
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Hang on a second. Have they said you can turn a pistol into a rifle and back again or did they say you can turn a rifle into a pistol? There is a difference.
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February 13, 2012, 02:20 PM | #14 | |
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A lower weather fully built or stripped, must be transfered as "other" on a 4473. A stripped lower can be made into a pistol FIRST, then made into a rifle, and then back into a pistol at will without violating the NFA. (Google ATF Ruling 2011-4) But you CAN NOT make a pistol from a rifle without first filling out a Form 1 and paying your $200 Tax. (See ATF 5320.8 chapter 2) |
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February 13, 2012, 07:21 PM | #15 | ||
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ATF is very clear that a "rifle" must have both a barrel and a shoulder stock. An AR that arrives as a "complete" lower (lower receiver w/stock) is logged into my records as an "Other Firearm"....it is not a handgun, nor a long gun.
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February 17, 2012, 10:36 PM | #16 |
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Carry On
Last edited by David Hineline; February 20, 2012 at 05:01 PM. |
February 19, 2012, 07:42 PM | #17 | |||||
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I just had my last inspection on September 6th and had ZERO mistakes so either you are wrong or my last three IOI's and I are wrong. Quote:
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February 19, 2012, 09:47 PM | #18 |
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Carry On
Last edited by David Hineline; February 20, 2012 at 05:02 PM. |
February 19, 2012, 10:17 PM | #19 | |
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Apparently, in the instruction portion of the 4473, A RECEIVER is NOT A HANDGUN OR LONG GUN. Last edited by rjrivero; February 20, 2012 at 01:14 AM. |
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February 19, 2012, 10:23 PM | #20 | |
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Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE |
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February 19, 2012, 11:55 PM | #21 |
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Carry On
Last edited by David Hineline; February 20, 2012 at 05:02 PM. |
February 20, 2012, 12:48 AM | #22 |
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The stocked bare receiver is supposed to be listed as "other" on the 4473, But since it has a stock on it from the factory it is considered a long gun by the BATFE. so taking the stock off and using the receiver as a pistol frame would be considered making a short barreled rifle by the BATFE.
Under the instructions for that part of the form it says If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun , it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. It started life with a stock so it has to keep the stock. If the stock was not installed from the factory or dealer you would be good to use it for anything
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February 20, 2012, 12:58 AM | #23 |
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Carry On
Last edited by David Hineline; February 20, 2012 at 05:02 PM. |
February 20, 2012, 01:06 AM | #24 |
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Just the screwed up way the BATFE works. AR's are the only bare receiver I can think of that MIGHT come with a stock from the factory.
Like I said it is still a long gun in the eyes of the BATFE. If for some reason they went to the manf. and saw that it left the factory with a stock and is in pistol form now you better have a form 1 or form 4 to go with it.
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February 20, 2012, 01:10 AM | #25 | |
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AR receivers, weather or not they come with a stock, CAN be built into pistols provided they have never been built into a complete rifle.
See letter attached. Page 2 has that direct answer, to that direct question. A stocked receiver. The previous reference is directly from the 4473 instruction page. I don't know how to make that any more clear. Edit: Quote:
Last edited by rjrivero; February 20, 2012 at 01:22 AM. |
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