You've got 57 seconds or less - Page 3

CARGUY2244 · October 23, 2009, 01:04 AM

Home invaders practice equal opportunity - geographical location of your residence offers no protection. If they want in bad enough, they'll get in. Critical to survival are warning and time delay. Secure doors and windows delay access, alarms, cameras, and lights alert, and good dogs add additional layers of warning, time delay, and protection. Immediate access to heavy small arm firepower, a cell phone, and a well rehearsed plan, along with warning and delay, dramatically weigh the odds in favor of the legal resident against all but the most severe opponents, such as a bonafide paramilitary unit.
Keeping a loaded pistol on the table at dinner, on the end table in the living room, on the vanity in the bathroom, and under a pillow in bed, plus ready access to a 12 guage shotgun and a semiautomatic rifle, along with dogs, and locked doors, eliminate the need for any paranoia.
It's just being prepared.

ZeSpectre · October 23, 2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Critical to survival are warning and time delay.

Repeated for emphasis. If you don't have the time to react no amount of plans are going to help you!

bambam1723 · October 23, 2009, 07:43 AM

That's why I have a large dog. A dog is worth 3 seconds (amount of time it will slow down an intruder before being immobilized). That's all the time I need to get to a gun.

vox rationis · October 23, 2009, 10:18 AM

Again, apropos, regarding warning time and delay of entry of the intruder(s), here is this unfortunate story regarding a young mother abducted from her own home..I wonder if her door was open, or is she answered the door to speak to him, etc.?

"...On Jan. 17, 2008, Denise Lee, 21, was home with her two sons, ages 10 months and 2 years, when she was abducted by Michael King, authorities said. Nathan Lee came home to find his sons alone and his wife's keys and phone sitting on a chair. He called 911...."

Link to Story

vox rationis · October 23, 2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

That's why I have a large dog. A dog is worth 3 seconds (amount of time it will slow down an intruder before being immobilized). That's all the time I need to get to a gun.

A dog or dogs is a good idea, but I have to tell you that I personally think that people put to too much trust in their dogs. I know that this will upset people, but not all dogs will be aggressive enough, or even loud enough. I'd still have a good layered security system, with the dog being just one part, but if I was forced to choose, I'd ditch the dog and keep the otherwise good layered security system, IMHO.

wilson133 · October 23, 2009, 12:03 PM

Your standards of what amounts to paranoia will change when 2 guys come through your girl friend's front door while you are on the couch. What saved the situation was my habit of visualization of possible scenarios. I was up with a gun in my hand before they got 2 steps in the door, and it was not the gun I was carrying. I got off of the couch and retrieved a holstered handgun, drew it and turned into a stance all without conscious thought. In other words, I remember the door starting to come open and I remember facing them with a gun, nothing in between.
My experience taught me that training my reflexive reaction is the most important thing. If I had to think about it, it probably would have been too late.
There is always at least one gun to hand now, no matter where I am.
The end of the story? I was squeezing the trigger and they ran, no shots were fired.
One incident can destroy your life, preparing to win in those situations is not paranoia.

markj · October 23, 2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

I personally think that people put to too much trust in their dogs

Why just last night I walked out of my barn with a jacket over my head as it was raining, all 4 dogs went off on me. The 3 males came at me until I yelled at em and dropped the jacket. I do belive anyone else will be slowed up a lot by all 4. I also have weapons in that barn and in the house.

Those Petits had nothing as far as alarms or early warning let alone a gun handy. I sure feel for em but they could have had a bit more in the protection area.

vox rationis · October 23, 2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Why just last night I walked out of my barn with a jacket over my head as it was raining, all 4 dogs went off on me. The 3 males came at me until I yelled at em and dropped the jacket. I do belive anyone else will be slowed up a lot by all 4. I also have weapons in that barn and in the house.

Sounds like your dogs are probably pretty reliable guard dogs. I've run across quite a few, one of which was actually one of mine, that wasn't as good

CARGUY2244 · October 23, 2009, 10:04 PM

Dogs as either a time delay, warning, or physical buffer...well that definitely depends on the dog(s), and the invaders tactics and manpower. An alarm system is always an additional asset.
The defender must become the aggressor immediately. It's impossible to imagine drawing weapon in an invasion situation without emptying it into the invaders.

CARGUY2244 · October 23, 2009, 10:19 PM

Moving this in a different direction, but with the same emphasis on home security, what about entering your home?
It's 10pm, you and your family are getting home from dinner. The house appears normal in every way. As you walk through to foyer, you see the alarm panel is red, but that's normal when you open the door, until you reset it. By the time you realize it won't reset, there's another entrance open, the kids are running to the staircase. Suddenly thunder from above and 3 armed intruders are rushing down from the second floor.
That situation is as ominous as any invasion, and has no good outcome. There is no alarm, as they've been in the house for 30 minutes. There is no warning, the dogs are dead. The only buffer between you and your guests...your family. You're a long shot here.
So, who acts in advance to avoid this? Who in our audience enters and does a walk through, gun and light in hand, with the family, waiting behind, also armed if trained appropriately. We do this every time we get home, and every time we open the offfice. We also scout the perimeter before the key ever hits the door. Not paranoid, just practical.

**JohnKSa** · October 24, 2009, 12:31 AM

I would be EXTREMELY unsatisfied with an alarm like the one in your scenario that gave a response that could initially either mean all was normal OR that the house had been compromised some time in the past since the alarm had been set.

My alarm system can only respond 2 ways when I come in the front door.

A warning that tells me that the alarm is operating properly, that none of the sensors have been tripped and that I have X amount of time to cancel the alarm.

No response at all which tells me that the alarm has been defeated, wasn't set or is inoperative. That would be a signal to immediately withdraw to a safe distance and evaluate the situation. I would enter the house ONLY if there was obvious evidence leading me to believe there was no one inside.

My wife knows that if she is alone to immediately withdraw, get in her vehicle and leave the premises in haste if she doesn't get the normal signal upon opening the door or if she observes any evidence of illegal entry. She would then summon the police to come and check the premises.

si vis pacem, para b · October 24, 2009, 04:49 AM

I don't care if I am called paranoid or prepared. I am alive and intend to be untill I am a great grandfather!

I saw one of those TV shows that investigates a crime and follows the story untill conviction. In this real life story a guy was sentanced to death because he got an "adrenaline rush" from breaking into peoples homes, tying them up and terrorizing them. His last victim was asleep when he broke into the apartment, and it only took seconds for the intruder to be in the victims room. The victim put up a strugle and ended up being killed by this nut case.
I am wise enough to know that in any society there are nutty people that act without any logic therefore I will always be armed.

I might even get one of those thigh holsers for my wife to wear during those intimate times when I can't have my 1911 on my waistband

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum. <----- My screen name says it all.

BillCA · October 25, 2009, 03:55 AM

Quote:

It's 10pm, you and your family are getting home from dinner. The house appears normal in every way. As you walk through to foyer, you see the alarm panel is red, but that's normal when you open the door, until you reset it. By the time you realize it won't reset, there's another entrance open, the kids are running to the staircase. Suddenly thunder from above and 3 armed intruders are rushing down from the second floor.

First, I wouldn't keep an alarm system like the one you describe. If there was a change in the alarm status since it was activated, there should be some tell-tale to let me know. Red lights, blinking lights, chirping noises, etc.

My preference would be the control panel blinking like a crazy christmas tree for any sensor that was tripped. And it should be visble from the door(s) you most often use to access the house.

CARGUY2244 · October 25, 2009, 09:47 AM

Okay...take the alarm alert out of the equation. The intruders interrupted the dedicated power source, it wasn't armed properly, it's been disabled, whatever.
Same scenario. Now what?

Brit · October 25, 2009, 02:56 PM

My wee two story town house, has two motion detectors, one in the garage, one in the living room, you can not enter without setting off the loud screaming siren, loud outside and in! Then my cell phone rings!

"Are you OK? your alarm is going off" My Wife had walked in with no device to open the door and turn off the detectors.

I knew she had been dropped off, so I said it is OK but I will check. I did, via phone, got back to the alarm company, "everything is fine, thank you so much". All happy.

Just $10.00 per month, worth it's weight in gold. I am sitting here typing away, Glock 19 two feet from my hand, when fully dressed, on belt.

The one thing that worries me, when thinking of my friends, the only violence they have seen has been in movies.

**JohnKSa** · October 25, 2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Same scenario. Now what?

Withdraw immediately to a safe distance and assess. There is NO way I'm going into that house if it seems that the alarm has been compromised. There could be no one there or there could be more people in there than I have rounds in my magazine.

dabigguns357 · October 25, 2009, 09:32 PM

"Never mind if I was on the pot"

Actually there was a news story that came out about 3 years ago where guy was on the pot but had his mossberg shotgun loaded and was able to use it even when his pants were down.He didn't kill anyone but was able to repel the intruders.All he said was he was glad he had his shotgun and that nobody else was hurt.

onthejon55 · October 26, 2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

"Never mind if I was on the pot"

I think mixing drugs and alcohol is a bad idea.

Seriously though, this is one of those scenarios in which the BGs have the whole scenario planned out very well. In most real life break ins the BGs arent going to plan ahead that well and this will give you time to react.

BuckHammer · October 26, 2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onthejon55

Seriously though, this is one of those scenarios in which the BGs have the whole scenario planned out very well. In most real life break ins the BGs arent going to plan ahead that well and this will give you time to react.

True, but it's like I always say, "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst."

Quote:

Originally Posted by onthejon55

I think mixing drugs and alcohol is a bad idea.

I couldn't agree more.

threegun · October 27, 2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

That's why I have a large dog. A dog is worth 3 seconds (amount of time it will slow down an intruder before being immobilized). That's all the time I need to get to a gun.

Are you positive? Do you carry on your person? Did you factor in reaction time? Is a gun 3 seconds away from every point in your home?

Richarde · October 27, 2009, 05:27 PM

Seeing as though I still live with my parents...... My mother and father aren't too fond of guns. I will try to have one hidden in every room when I get my own place. But anyway, We have a 13 yr old jack russell that will be the first sound of trouble if anything does happen. Then when she starts going off, My shotgun is three inches from my bed with a bright azz polytac mounted to it. Ill go out my door with my 80 lb lab leading the way, let her round the corner first (which is cool because she is as black as night and they'll hear her but won't see her) and once I asses the situation from the outcome of her on the attack, Ill decide what to do. I don't want to accidentally shoot the dog.

"not everyone is out to kill you"

Yeah, true, but if it is 2 or 3 in the mornin and my door is being kicked in, unless there are flashing blue lights outside, I'm not going to wait around to find out what they really want.

Yeah, I'll give them one opportunity to get on the floor and lay perfectly still or run out as fast as possible. Then (well, have yall seen the hornady tap 70mm 12g slugs, them thangs is tight) if they don't comply, I hear three inch magnum 00buck doesn't feel too swell.

October 23, 2009, 01:04 AM	#51
CARGUY2244 Junior member Join Date: December 4, 2008 Posts: 119	invasion Home invaders practice equal opportunity - geographical location of your residence offers no protection. If they want in bad enough, they'll get in. Critical to survival are warning and time delay. Secure doors and windows delay access, alarms, cameras, and lights alert, and good dogs add additional layers of warning, time delay, and protection. Immediate access to heavy small arm firepower, a cell phone, and a well rehearsed plan, along with warning and delay, dramatically weigh the odds in favor of the legal resident against all but the most severe opponents, such as a bonafide paramilitary unit. Keeping a loaded pistol on the table at dinner, on the end table in the living room, on the vanity in the bathroom, and under a pillow in bed, plus ready access to a 12 guage shotgun and a semiautomatic rifle, along with dogs, and locked doors, eliminate the need for any paranoia. It's just being prepared.

October 23, 2009, 10:04 PM	#59
CARGUY2244 Junior member Join Date: December 4, 2008 Posts: 119	57 seconds Dogs as either a time delay, warning, or physical buffer...well that definitely depends on the dog(s), and the invaders tactics and manpower. An alarm system is always an additional asset. The defender must become the aggressor immediately. It's impossible to imagine drawing weapon in an invasion situation without emptying it into the invaders.

October 23, 2009, 10:19 PM	#60
CARGUY2244 Junior member Join Date: December 4, 2008 Posts: 119	Different direction Moving this in a different direction, but with the same emphasis on home security, what about entering your home? It's 10pm, you and your family are getting home from dinner. The house appears normal in every way. As you walk through to foyer, you see the alarm panel is red, but that's normal when you open the door, until you reset it. By the time you realize it won't reset, there's another entrance open, the kids are running to the staircase. Suddenly thunder from above and 3 armed intruders are rushing down from the second floor. That situation is as ominous as any invasion, and has no good outcome. There is no alarm, as they've been in the house for 30 minutes. There is no warning, the dogs are dead. The only buffer between you and your guests...your family. You're a long shot here. So, who acts in advance to avoid this? Who in our audience enters and does a walk through, gun and light in hand, with the family, waiting behind, also armed if trained appropriately. We do this every time we get home, and every time we open the offfice. We also scout the perimeter before the key ever hits the door. Not paranoid, just practical.

October 24, 2009, 12:31 AM	#61
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,990	I would be EXTREMELY unsatisfied with an alarm like the one in your scenario that gave a response that could initially either mean all was normal OR that the house had been compromised some time in the past since the alarm had been set. My alarm system can only respond 2 ways when I come in the front door. A warning that tells me that the alarm is operating properly, that none of the sensors have been tripped and that I have X amount of time to cancel the alarm. No response at all which tells me that the alarm has been defeated, wasn't set or is inoperative. That would be a signal to immediately withdraw to a safe distance and evaluate the situation. I would enter the house ONLY if there was obvious evidence leading me to believe there was no one inside. My wife knows that if she is alone to immediately withdraw, get in her vehicle and leave the premises in haste if she doesn't get the normal signal upon opening the door or if she observes any evidence of illegal entry. She would then summon the police to come and check the premises. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

October 24, 2009, 04:49 AM	#62
si vis pacem, para b Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2008 Location: Cypress (North West Houston) Posts: 157	Paranoid or prepared I don't care if I am called paranoid or prepared. I am alive and intend to be untill I am a great grandfather! I saw one of those TV shows that investigates a crime and follows the story untill conviction. In this real life story a guy was sentanced to death because he got an "adrenaline rush" from breaking into peoples homes, tying them up and terrorizing them. His last victim was asleep when he broke into the apartment, and it only took seconds for the intruder to be in the victims room. The victim put up a strugle and ended up being killed by this nut case. I am wise enough to know that in any society there are nutty people that act without any logic therefore I will always be armed. I might even get one of those thigh holsers for my wife to wear during those intimate times when I can't have my 1911 on my waistband Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum. <----- My screen name says it all. __________________ If you’re killed, you’ve lost a very important part of your life.” Brooke Shields

October 23, 2009, 07:43 AM	#53
bambam1723 Member Join Date: October 12, 2009 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 57	That's why I have a large dog. A dog is worth 3 seconds (amount of time it will slow down an intruder before being immobilized). That's all the time I need to get to a gun.

October 23, 2009, 10:18 AM	#54
vox rationis Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2007 Posts: 1,855	Again, apropos, regarding warning time and delay of entry of the intruder(s), here is this unfortunate story regarding a young mother abducted from her own home..I wonder if her door was open, or is she answered the door to speak to him, etc.? "...On Jan. 17, 2008, Denise Lee, 21, was home with her two sons, ages 10 months and 2 years, when she was abducted by Michael King, authorities said. Nathan Lee came home to find his sons alone and his wife's keys and phone sitting on a chair. He called 911...." Link to Story

October 23, 2009, 12:03 PM	#56
wilson133 Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Posts: 194	Your standards of what amounts to paranoia will change when 2 guys come through your girl friend's front door while you are on the couch. What saved the situation was my habit of visualization of possible scenarios. I was up with a gun in my hand before they got 2 steps in the door, and it was not the gun I was carrying. I got off of the couch and retrieved a holstered handgun, drew it and turned into a stance all without conscious thought. In other words, I remember the door starting to come open and I remember facing them with a gun, nothing in between. My experience taught me that training my reflexive reaction is the most important thing. If I had to think about it, it probably would have been too late. There is always at least one gun to hand now, no matter where I am. The end of the story? I was squeezing the trigger and they ran, no shots were fired. One incident can destroy your life, preparing to win in those situations is not paranoia.

October 25, 2009, 09:47 AM	#64
CARGUY2244 Junior member Join Date: December 4, 2008 Posts: 119	try again Okay...take the alarm alert out of the equation. The intruders interrupted the dedicated power source, it wasn't armed properly, it's been disabled, whatever. Same scenario. Now what?

October 25, 2009, 02:56 PM	#65
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	What kind of alarm do you have? My wee two story town house, has two motion detectors, one in the garage, one in the living room, you can not enter without setting off the loud screaming siren, loud outside and in! Then my cell phone rings! "Are you OK? your alarm is going off" My Wife had walked in with no device to open the door and turn off the detectors. I knew she had been dropped off, so I said it is OK but I will check. I did, via phone, got back to the alarm company, "everything is fine, thank you so much". All happy. Just $10.00 per month, worth it's weight in gold. I am sitting here typing away, Glock 19 two feet from my hand, when fully dressed, on belt. The one thing that worries me, when thinking of my friends, the only violence they have seen has been in movies.

October 25, 2009, 09:32 PM	#67
dabigguns357 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Location: Ona,West Virginia Posts: 1,215	"Never mind if I was on the pot" Actually there was a news story that came out about 3 years ago where guy was on the pot but had his mossberg shotgun loaded and was able to use it even when his pants were down.He didn't kill anyone but was able to repel the intruders.All he said was he was glad he had his shotgun and that nobody else was hurt.

October 27, 2009, 05:27 PM	#71
Richarde Junior Member Join Date: October 25, 2009 Posts: 12	Seeing as though I still live with my parents...... My mother and father aren't too fond of guns. I will try to have one hidden in every room when I get my own place. But anyway, We have a 13 yr old jack russell that will be the first sound of trouble if anything does happen. Then when she starts going off, My shotgun is three inches from my bed with a bright azz polytac mounted to it. Ill go out my door with my 80 lb lab leading the way, let her round the corner first (which is cool because she is as black as night and they'll hear her but won't see her) and once I asses the situation from the outcome of her on the attack, Ill decide what to do. I don't want to accidentally shoot the dog. "not everyone is out to kill you" Yeah, true, but if it is 2 or 3 in the mornin and my door is being kicked in, unless there are flashing blue lights outside, I'm not going to wait around to find out what they really want. Yeah, I'll give them one opportunity to get on the floor and lay perfectly still or run out as fast as possible. Then (well, have yall seen the hornady tap 70mm 12g slugs, them thangs is tight) if they don't comply, I hear three inch magnum 00buck doesn't feel too swell.