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Old October 14, 2013, 09:54 AM   #1
maillemaker
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Synthetic flints?

So I'm assuming that modern flint locks still use traditional stone flints.

Are there any synthetic flints that can be purchased in bulk or last longer or are superior to knapped flint?

Steve
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Old October 14, 2013, 12:34 PM   #2
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I've never seen any but who knows what someone would come up with, with the technology there is today. I'd highly doubt it though - if they lasted a long time, folks wouldn't need to buy 'em as often. It would kind of be a limited market IMHO. I've always kind of viewed flints as something that when you find some that work well in your lock - you stock up on 'em. Like anything else these days - they probably aren't going to get any cheaper but will go up in cost over time. I wished I had developed my philosophy on stocking up when you find 'em years ago - but then I say the same about caps, powder, primers . . . .
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Old October 14, 2013, 01:20 PM   #3
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I have shot flint for 50 years and I have tried everything. There were flints made
From ceramic that worked well. They were called "Forged Fire". The other was
made from gemstone. Both of there were sawed. You can still buy sawed flints
but you can't knapp them when they get dull. They have to be sharpened on
a stone like a knife. The best is still the flints from England. If your lock is set
up right, you will get at least 100 shots from a flint probably more.
Phil
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Old October 14, 2013, 01:22 PM   #4
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You can get some of the flints that are sawed into shape, but in my experience even they are inferior doe to the inability to control the flaws within the rock. As far as I know, flint, chert, or obsidian are about the only substances hard enough to do the job.
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Old October 14, 2013, 02:29 PM   #5
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what will work or work best , depends alot on the lock .
A couple of my personal rifles simply don’t do well with English flints . But the love French amber. Others don’t like French amber but do very well with English .

Then you have the cut agates. They work and will spark but as was said , they need to be sharpened on a stone or with a diamond file . They also a lot of times will eat up a perfectly good frizzen but will at other times work on a frizzen that’s on the rather hard side .

I have on occasion used agate spalls they work and can be napped .
Chert works as well .

As to whats new , well there is always someone trying to improve on something that ,,, well frankly doesn’t need or most likely cant be improved on .
one such so called improvement I saw recently what where someone had taken a striker from a cigarette lighter and fitted it to a block . I guess they then too glue strips of lighter flints on the frizzen ????I about died laughing when I saw it , but I guess it does work . I save a photo somewhere
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Old October 14, 2013, 02:41 PM   #6
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I have one of those, and also have the "Atomic Frizzen" What really produced the most fire was the Ceramic flint with the Atomic Frizzen. Now that was something to talk about.


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Old October 15, 2013, 09:01 AM   #7
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I have used sawn flints for decades. They last a very long time. The CAN be knapped when dull but can also be sharpened with a diamond tool. I like them but they are expensive.
Show are two sawn flints. The top one is a manufactured ceramic. These never caught on with the market. I don't know why. I keep this one only as a curiosity but might try it one day.
The bottom one is a German sawed flint. The color is very light but they can be many different colors. Sawn flints are made from several stones like agate, jade, etc. All have worked quite well for me.
TC sells a sawn flint that has gotten very poor reviews. It is called agate but performs poorly. That is not my experience with the German agate.
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Old October 15, 2013, 10:56 AM   #8
Mike Irwin
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Over the years I've had ZERO luck with sawn flints. 10, maybe 15 shots with a sawn flint before it would become unusable.

I splurged one day at a gunshow and picked up a bunch of hand knapped English chert. Expensive, but considering that I'd get at least 40 shots out of each one (one I took to nearly 100 before it was unusable), they were actually cheaper than the sawn flints.
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Old October 15, 2013, 11:56 AM   #9
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Mike, that is your experience and I am happy you are happy.
But, milage varies subject to many variables in the flint itself and, especially, the lock.
I have gotten so many shots from German sawn flints some would call me a liar if I stated the numbers. That was with one lock in particular. With others the results could be less satisfactory.
I have had to knap or toss many English flints after only a few strikes because they dulled so quickly.
In the flint game there are very few absolutes.
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Old October 15, 2013, 12:04 PM   #10
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Quote:
Are there any synthetic flints that can be purchased in bulk or last longer or are superior to knapped flint?
Not to my knowledge. I've never seen any Synthetic flint. Not a bad idea though considering the cost of Natural.
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Old October 15, 2013, 12:33 PM   #11
Mike Irwin
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Never claimed there were absolutes.

Just recounting my experiences regarding sawn vs. knapped chert flints.
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Old October 16, 2013, 05:42 AM   #12
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I completely agree about no absolutes. I have had flints that lasted for only one fall and others that lasted for nearly 100...with touchup along the way. luckily I stocked up years ago with both English and French flints in various sizes, and haven't had to buy more in a long time...they have sure gotten expensive.
I found a good bucket of Texas chert one time and tried sawing my own with a rock saw....this turned out to be a folly. I actually made some pretty good looking flints, but they had faults running through them in all directions which caused them to crack and flake in all directions as well. The chert does make good fire starting material and sparks great, but I wouldn't want to rely on it for rifle sparkers.
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Old October 16, 2013, 07:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
but I wouldn't want to rely on it for rifle sparkers.
but in a pinch ,,the option is there to use chirt and it will work .

like you i stocked up on Fuller flints just before Tom Fuller retired . what i didnt stock up on is french ambers . i wish i had because i have began to prefer the french amber over the english .
but with either , you have to be choosey about selecting the flints or ambers you buy .
That was one of the nice things about Fuller . Only about 10% of what he would send you would be of poorer quality .
Today all to often it’s a grab bag type of thing .
that’s one of the reasons I don’t cry to loud . I wait tell I can actually inspect and pick what im willing to pay for
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Old October 16, 2013, 07:38 AM   #14
maillemaker
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Quote:
Not to my knowledge. I've never seen any Synthetic flint. Not a bad idea though considering the cost of Natural.
I've never shot a flintlock, but I was thinking it would be nice not to have to deal with percussion caps. Then I thought the flint probably wears out/breaks anyway. 100 percussion caps is about $8. How much does a flint cost that will get you 100 shots? I was thinking it would be nice if you had a spark-making device that lasted much longer or used a manufactured spark-making implement that did not require expensive hand work to produce.

Steve
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Old October 16, 2013, 08:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
You can get some of the flints that are sawed into shape, but in my experience even they are inferior doe to the inability to control the flaws within the rock. As far as I know, flint, chert, or obsidian are about the only substances hard enough to do the job.
There is another choice. Novaculite.
There is a company that cuts them into gun flints. About a year ago I made moves to purchase wholesale lots and resell them.
However some preliminary market testing indicated that selling used oats would be a more successful venture. Plus, they are expensive, wholesale prices exceeded retail for other types of flint.
If these prices could be brought down considerably there might be possibilities.
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Old October 16, 2013, 09:14 AM   #16
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Novaculite is entirely new to me, but fascinating. I just did a little research on it and there are possibilities, but the price seems out of line for a raw material such as this. We may be down to knapping our own flints someday and I guess it will just add another level to the "Mystique" of shooting our front stuffers.
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Old October 16, 2013, 09:32 AM   #17
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Novaculite is basically in the same family as chirt . its used alot in sharpening stones .
some years ago i was part of a test project where the waste product from the manufacture of sharpening stones would be turned cut for use as gun flints for flintlocks .
It does work and it sparks well for a time . The ones I tested , needed to be sharpened after a few shots . To few IMO and again you were back to sharpening with a diamond stone as these were cut type flints not actual Knapped flints .
Again they did work . But IMO not worth the proposed manufacturing cost which at that time was about twice the cost of English flints which I was purchasing in bulk for 5/8 at .35 a flint
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Old October 16, 2013, 10:31 AM   #18
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It strikes me that a "flint" could be made from the stuff they use for magnesium fire starters...those things where you scrape off some of the magnesium powder with a knife and then strike the stick with the knife blade to produce sparks. However, inasmuch as I have only seen the fire sticks in 3/16 rods and backed by a piece of aluminum, they may be too brittle to use if there were to be shaped like a flint.
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Old October 16, 2013, 01:28 PM   #19
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The sparks do not come from the Flint, but come from the steel frizzen.
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Old October 16, 2013, 06:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
The sparks do not come from the Flint, but come from the steel frizzen.
yep .

when i say that the Novaculite sparked well . what i was saying is that it produces spark well , not that the sparks come from it .
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Old October 17, 2013, 09:32 AM   #21
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dahermit,

That's called ferrocerium.

They're actually pretty interesting, and given the correct design would probably make a decent ignition system for a flintlock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrocerium
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Old October 19, 2013, 06:39 PM   #22
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I have found cut agate fine. Use it in smaller locks generally. I think the key is to introduce the flint edge to the frizzen at not too direct, not too perpendicular, an angle where it slams the thing but touches it at an angle as close to less than 45-degrees as possible yet where it runs its edge along the steel face for as long as possible and produces hot sparks...

...like running a nail along the nape of a woman's neck. Easy does it.

I had a "magic flint." It came with a used Jap Bess and it must have lasted me a few hundred shots. I don't think I ever did more than readjust the edge to the face of the frizzen which is something folk simply fail to do too often, usually thinking they should, and can, knap.
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Old October 21, 2013, 09:25 AM   #23
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I bought a used squirrel gun off Gun Broker, I didn't know it at the time, but, it has that Ferro-cerium applied to the frizzen, & has a piece of steel where the flint would normally go... it appears to have a very long life, & throws sparks like crazy... had a thread for it here along time ago...



http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=365177
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Old October 22, 2013, 08:24 AM   #24
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mwm, that is not traditional. Your gun but why bother? Looks like the cock has been modified also.
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Old October 22, 2013, 08:33 AM   #25
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I know it's not traditional... it was, & is my only "flintlock" out of 5 muzzleloaders... as "ugly" as it is, it does function quite well...

I actually bought it a couple "shortages" ago, when you also couldn't get primers... & I was worried about having something that didn't require a primer ( I've since stocked up quite well ) so I don't shoot this one often

I had thought of switching it back, & bought a couple nice European knapped flints, but never put them in... as an aside... I thought I had heard that some states had outlawed this type of ignition, as they were afraid it could cause more forest fires ???

BTW... thanks to this thread, I never realized how much maintenance was needed for the flints... I thought they would work well until they cracked or broke ???

but sounds like you're lucky if you get a 100 shots off a good one ???
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