Failed Background Check Follow up

[Rothdel]

Was looking at guns this weekend and witnessed a guy get notified his background check was denied.

This got me thinking. With the amount of discussion regarding gun control what if any consequences are there for falsifying the background check form or even trying to fill one out knowing you are not eligable? Is this enforced? Millions of these forms have been filled out since inception. What happens to the ones that are denied? Any investigation happen?

Are there any sources of data for this?

[rwilson452]

I don't know of any hard data. Rumor has it enforcement Has increased.

[dogtown tom]

Rothdel ....With the amount of discussion regarding gun control what if any consequences are there for falsifying the background check form or even trying to fill one out knowing you are not eligable?

At a minimum, ten years imprisonment and/or up to a $250,000 fine for falsifying the information on the Form 4473.

Is this enforced?

Almost never. In seven years I've had about ten customers get denied.........in only one instance did ATF call and ask for a copy of the 4473.

Millions of these forms have been filled out since inception. What happens to the ones that are denied?

The dealer is required to keep denied 4473's for five years.

Any investigation happen?

Rarely. I've called my local ATF three times regarding suspicious behavior/straw sales/etc...........not once were they interested in investigating.

I think few USAO's are interested in pursuing straw sales and felons failing their NICS checks. The article below seems to confirm this.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...r-ob/?page=all

Are there any sources of data for this?

ATF.gov has stats on gun crime.

[Rothdel]

so obvious question.......

Instead of demanding all sales go through this process or adding additional layers of laws/requirements; why not follow this process to its logical conclusion and investigate people trying to get guns knowing they should not?

[dogtown tom]

Rothdel so obvious question.......

Instead of demanding all sales go through this process or adding additional layers of laws/requirements; why not follow this process to its logical conclusion and investigate people trying to get guns knowing they should not?

You mean follow the existing law?

Obama will just pardon them anyway.

[2ndsojourn]

"....what if any consequences are there for falsifying the background check form or even trying to fill one out knowing you are not eligable? Is this enforced?"

In New Jersey it is,...my FFL transfer guy had a potential customer that was prosecuted. The fed....not so much.

"We don't have time for that"
~Joe Biden

[Rothdel]

Kind of amazing to me how much of our legislation is not based in any need or understanding of the issues that exist.

Based on this I'm guessing our political thought process is the following:

1. We think we have a gun violence problem....
2. Lets create a back ground check to eliminate gun sales to those we deem ineligible and put harsh penalties for those falsifying this back ground check
3. No one actually enforces said laws in terms of prosecuting those that falsify or check into/investigate folks who try to purchase a firearm although not allowed to have one....
4. We think we still have a gun violence problem.....
5. Hmmmm we already have laws in place that should have fixed this problem guess we need to add more laws or outright ban stuff.

That about cover it?

[pete2]

Worked for a store for 3-1/2 years and only know of follow up one time. A lady was denied, a couple weeks later some officers came to the store on a follow up, she had been found murdered. Didn't make sense at that point to follow up. never heard anything else about it. I did have an agent call back and ask if another applicant had given an phone number or an address, no follow up on that either.

[osbornk]

My step brother pawned a gun and found out he had to pass a background check to pick it up. He neglected to disclose that he had a minor felony (something about a bad check) and was denied. He was charged and found guilty of lying on the paperwork and spent several months in prison.

[raimius]

At the federal level, it is rarely prosecuted. (77 in ten years, was the number, if I recall correctly)

Not sure if states actually try to enforce a version of it with more regularity.

...and yes, the Vice President stated that investigating and enforcing this law was not something the federal government had time for!

[Tom Servo]

My experience echoes Dogtown Tom's. I had about 25-30 denials per year. They fell into one of two categories.

The first is the person who acts like a normal gun buyer. They're shocked and flabbergasted. Most of those folks are very concerned with appealing their denial.

The second is the person who picks out the cheapest gun on the shelf and doesn't seem at all surprised they failed. They usually just sulk out.

In my time in the business, I only had law enforcement follow up on two denials. I never heard anything back, so it's safe to assume that not even those folks were prosecuted.

In fact, the only prosecutions in which I had to testify involved people who passed the background check without issue.

[dakota.potts]

Almost never. In seven years I've had about ten customers get denied.........in only one instance did ATF call and ask for a copy of the 4473.

I find that odd. I worked for a big sporting goods chain for six months and I saw at least 10 or 12 people get denied.

And then there was the gentleman who ordered a gun online, had it shipped to us, and then marked on the form that he had been dishonorably discharged from the military. We told him if what he marked was true, he wasn't even allowed to try to buy a gun or ammo. No response except a nod and a silent stare. I suggested he contact a lawyer. Another nod and more staring. He said he would contact the company and see what he could do with the gun.

The gun (already paid for) sat in our safe for several months and I don't know what happened to it. We never saw him again. No clue what all that was about.

[dogtown tom]

dakota.potts

I find that odd. I worked for a big sporting goods chain for six months and I saw at least 10 or 12 people get denied.

It's not odd if you understand why.
My customers have already paid for their firearm when I get it, I just do the paperwork and background check. That right there eliminates a lot of the buyers who think they will test the system.

Nearly half of my transfers do not require an FBI NICS check because the buyer holds a Texas CHL.