Brass Frame old & unmarked 1851 Stripped

[Syspila]

Hi folks, Nice to get on here and meet you all. I am not new to shooting old replica revolvers, and as many have, I have collected several over my lifetime. Of course, I had the the Notorious Chainfire, back in the '80s with an overloaded FIE brass framed '58...the gun is a parts unit now!

My question today is if anyone has a Mainframe and Cylinder pin for a brass frame, 1851 Colt reproduction .44 Revolver...this unit has been a parts gun that a friend had given to me and since I am handicapped I thought I might check to see if one of you'all might have one and get it living again.

This is an old replica with no name or date on it. There is no evidence that I can tell of sanding the Name/Date off it. It does not look finished/blued and all is good except the main deal! It is in fine tune, yet looks like someone tried to get the cylinder pin off and back on and then stripped the brass. Thanks.

[Fingers McGee]

There are a variety new of brass & steel 1851/1860/1861 frames listed on Gunbroker in the $80 to $140 range. Just look in "Browse categories" under "Black Powder Pistols & Muzzleloader Pistols" to find them.

[g.willikers]

What holds the cylinder pin (arbor) in place normally?
Press fit?
Threads?
If you find a new one, how would you install it so it stays put?
If it came loose when the gun goes off - eghads!

[Bishop Creek]

This is what Fingers is talking about. These are on Gunbroker all the time. Click the link below.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=494799735

[Fingers McGee]

What holds the cylinder pin (arbor) in place normally?
Press fit?
Threads?
If you find a new one, how would you install it so it stays put?
If it came loose when the gun goes off - eghads!

The arbor is threaded into the frame & held by a staking pin.

[Syspila]

Hello, The Cylinder Pin, or Arbor is threaded into the old Cylinder frame and, of course, is stripped out. The Brass threads barely are there. I don't see any friction pin that might have been used to hold the Arbor in place. As far as looking on Gunbroker for a new frame, I have seen a steel one, yet I would rather stick to the brass.

[Syspila]

Oh, the arbor is a bit stripped, yet not like the brass! Definitely need a frame!

[Fingers McGee]

Gunbroker has brass as well as steel frames listed:

Auction # 497468649
Auction # 497468653

Keep in mind, your old frame will probably be very different than a Pietta replacement so the internals may require a lot of fitting.

[Syspila]

Thanks, McGee! I could not find those when I looked. I agree...I think the Piettas are a bit more refined since this is an old revolver. I think I will wait and watch for a while for something more vintage. I did look at cheaper old revolvers (ie: a Gris. Gunn. .44 they have listed as a Colt) parts...I suspect this one I have is an old Navy Brand unit. I will keep lookin'!

[Syspila]

Got some parts from a guy and an old Euro Arms main frame. new-old grips for the 1851, and a set of old, worn grips...less than $50. Great project, get another front site, some sanding, finish, clean gun and I am done. Not bluing, looks old!...I brought the old piece back to life!

[Doc Hoy]

How about some photos?

[Syspila]

Almost done...gotta get front site (from Dixie) pinched in...looks good, frame is a '70's frame now. I may sand the date and other proofs off, though since the gun is .44 and brass framed it is obvious that is not a relic. I will look at putting photos on, though I may be gettin' up there and really have not done that. It does look good/old!

[Doc Hoy]

Ain't it Sys?

[foolzrushn]

Sys- Why go to the trouble of sanding off the date/proofs? She's 45 years old...nothing wrong with that.

If you talk to a welder with a torch about your project, he would probably give you a couple inches of brass brazing rod for the front sight. Get a larger diameter than the hole in the barrel. Then you can use a drill as a lathe, to file and fit your sight to the hole. Remember to make it longer if you intend to shoot it.

To determine how long, use a wooden matchstick while test firing. Easy to cut and you can start over if you go too short. Then transfer the right length to the brass sight.

If your cylinder arbor is strictly screw-in, and the arbor threads are a little damaged, what will you use to secure the arbor at the right rotational clocking? I am thinking that with pieces from different guns and no arbor locking pin, you might want to use some Locktite on the arbor threads.

[Doc Hoy]

...who have successfully tightened up a loose arbor on a brass frame revolver, but I am not one of them.

I have tried on about three pistols. I have tried various techniques. None of them stayed tight for more than about fifty rounds.

My experience with loc-tite is that it will keep an arbor tight that has plenty of thread left. But if there is much wear n the threads it won't hold for very long.

I have a haunted Sheriffs Model that has the arbor tightened and it is okay but I don't shoot it any more.

Tnx,

[foolzrushn]

I know that I would be interested to know the methods tried. Perhaps Sys would too.

[Doc Hoy]

Some are threaded in and then drilled from the hammer channel. The hole thus made is partially in the arbor and partially in the frame. A round pin is driven into the hole and it acts sort of like a key on a shaft.

Others are just turned into the threads in the frame and a center punch is used to dent the arbor and frame to prevent turning.

I know of one pistol in which a hole was drilled more or less vertically down through the frame and arbor. I think this was an after market fix by an owner who wanted to prevent movement of the arbor. It didn't work well because when the hole was drilled the bit wandered because the brass of the frame is much softer than the steel of the arbor. The only real effect was to weaken both the frame and the arbor.

I have also tried braising ans silver soldering unsuccessfully. In order to get the solder to wet the parts the arbor must be completely removed from the frame and both parts must be rendered perfectly clean. That in itself is not an easy task.

I have tried replacing an arbor with one I purchased from DGW. The threads did not match the pistol frame and so I rethreaded the arbor. It worked loose pretty quickly.

I tried loc-tite (as I said previously) on a pistol in which the threads were pretty far gone. That also worked loose because (My observation tells me) that the function of loc-tite is really to keep fasteners in place when the threads of the fastener are in good shape but not to replace the strength that is lost when fasteners are damaged.

I think I recall another member o this forum speaking of JB weld products. I know they make a fantastic bonding agent but I never tried it myself.

Years ago, when I got back into BP revolver shooting I actively sought pistols in bad shape to serve as experiments and to build my parts bins. I got pretty good at building pistols that worked well and looked okay using parts scavenged from other pistols. But I have never been very good at tightening a loose arbor.

[foolzrushn]

Depending of course upon how loose, I might try wrapping some steel wool around the arbor threads and smearing it with JB weld epoxy then inserting into the frame.

You would need to make a dry run first, to determine the amount of wool to use. You would also need to be sure that you thought the arbor would be held straight while curing. Hopefully the threads would still hold the arbor tight and straight without external support. Also that the arbor was clocked right on a Colt.

[Doc Hoy]

... I reassembled the pistol including the wedge but without the cylinder.

[Syspila]

Thanks for your thoughts. I have read your comments, so I will answer tomorrow...ready for bed after a long day!....

Darn you guys, the old arbor/cylinder pin is good, though the threads are worn. The Main Frame is thoroughly stripped, though it could be threaded larger requiring some sort of arbor expansion???. Meanwhile, the current main frame I acquired is great and arbor tight.

Yes, I pretty much have decided to keep the tool date and certifications on the Main Frame. The barrel fits very well...tight, off from the frame a wee bit at the pins that it mates with, but it doesn't seem a problem.

I have a new front site pin from Dixie, looking like it just needs installing in the barrel...it looks as though it will "snap" right in. Oh, the trigger guard from the old piece fits really well, just a bit off--not quite flush with the main Frame--sanding the side of the trigger guard piece could help that. The grips, matched the brass so well! Now, I almost want to polish the brass! I am tired...Okay, that is the short, very short version!

[foolzrushn]

I thought since you said the threads on the arbor were bad, that perhaps it was not going to be tight in the new(different)frame. Glad that it is tight. Do you think it is tight enough to stay tight after shooting?

Since you said there was no pin to secure the arbor, just tight threads, I presume you will use some Loctite or something on those threads and that the clocking is right on.

[Doc Hoy]

Is pretty normal.

Even new pistols sometimes come with a trigger guard that needs work. The process is easy, quick and simple.

[Syspila]

No. I have a frame and pin...already there for the new assembly...I still have the old one, frame and cylinder pin, and want to play a bit and see if I can get some tool work and re-install the pin in the old frame with some sort of threaded round shim piece. Never quit! I have some other parts too!

[Syspila]

Doc, yes...the frame edge will eventually be shaved/sanded...That will be in the finishing! Thanks. There are many small items to think about, just one at a time!

[Syspila]

Yes, earlier Doc was mentioning that he assembled a huge array of parts...I have some too...percussion pieces, revolvers, flints...not a huge amount but good enough to repair some things. I used to keep Dixie in business I felt!