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Old January 12, 2014, 05:00 PM   #1
Gunn Smithy
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Loading 410's in California?

Howdy all: I thought that I had my latest "Master Plan" (that is for firearms only) was figured all out. Mama got real tired of me spending money on a hobby that she really has no interest in. She use to allow it and actually went to a couple of my shoots. Ie. registered NSSA skeet shoots and SASS cowboy shoots, but now with my health (37 years of diabetes and its complications) all I can manage doing is buying guns and slicking them up and maybe just maybe talk one of my family members to driving me down to the local indoor range to shoot. Needless to say my current collection consists mainly of handguns, specifically revolvers. I have a Barska biometric pistol safe and had a rack inside that held just five revolvers. Then with a little ingenuity I realized that I could modify some shoulder bolts and bolt them to the back which allowed placing the guns closer together on these newly placed gun studs. I also realized that the door to the small safe allowed yet another gun. So I got my total up to seven revolvers and filled that quota.

Then it happened. I live in California and CA does not like pistols that just happen to also shoot shotgun rounds so the Judge, the Governor, and all of Bond Arms stuff is a big NO-NO in CA. Then here came along the Circuit Judge and CA said wait a minute we have laws against just such an item. This just after Governor Brown signed into law a ban on out of state ammunition purchases requiring one to go to an ammunition dealer, fill out a bunch of paperwork and have a license to purchase ammo. Well the fifth circuit court overturned the law, lock, stock, and barrel. Every bit of the law was overturned and the reason was that ammo sales and the restriction of same involved interstate commerce and that was the Fed's and the Fed's only type of business. So after eating a little humble pie, CA pulled out its revolving shotgun law. (think striker and street sweeper days). It really does address any form, type or version of a revolving shotgun and is totally illegal in CA. Then the Fed's came to the rescue again. They said hang on a second. We (meaning BATFE) have already made a determination of the Circuit Judge. Since the manufacturer has agreed to only make this model with their straight rifling and no parts will be available to do anything else with it, we have determined that this firearm is a rifle and as such, you (meaning CA) do not have any laws against such a firearm so to prevent its sale in CA you'd be venturing back into the problem you had earlier with interstate commerce. Do you want to go there? So their answer for now is a sheepish "No sir." and off go the Circuit Judges to the dealer's shelves. I'm no dummy and I know it's only a matter of time before CA figures some way to screw up a good deal and firearm so I've got one at the local gun shop with a deposit and my name on it.

So much for the California part of this post, now onto the loading of same. I know that I can get a MEC of some sort or another brand of loader, but I only will be shooting just three calibers, two of which I will not be reloading for since the fifth circuit judge dumped on the Governor and I have been able to stockpile a goodly number of rounds for each. The only loads I'll be loading for the Circuit Judge will be in the form of personal defense type home loads. I've already selected the MagTech brass hulls and the Stretch 410 wad from Ballistic Products and topped with their Mini Nitro cards. I have a buckshot mold from Lee (their multi-cavity six pour mold) that makes 18 #000 buckshot. This size buckshot will fit perfectly into the wad and hull mentioned with just a few thousandths of wad give from the pellets. What I really need is some seasoned advice as to what metallic die would serve the purpose of imparting a slight roll crimp in maybe the seating or crimping die? I've already figured out the shell holder dilemma and saw mentioned just such a die, but lost the posting and cannot find it anymore? Also based upon the gun and the load involved (three #000 pellets is all that should fit I think, maybe four?), what type of powder would be best suited for such a load. I'm going to be Lee dipping this powder so I'm not looking for a finicky powder like Hodgedon 110. In the 44 mag with a 300 grain bullet I was going to shoot when I use to load for the round, the 110 powder had a minimum and maximum load that went from 17 to 18 grains. There was also a big difference in velocities for each tenth of a grain. Not for me I need a nice safe dummy powder that can take the variances of scooped powder. Any help would be appreciated. Smithy.
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Old January 13, 2014, 02:02 AM   #2
chris in va
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Wow, that's a lot to digest.

All I can contribute is the shot issue through a rifled barrel. As it imparts twist on projectiles, any accuracy with shot pellets goes out the window. I guess it's fine at really short ranges but past 10 yards it just spins out of control.
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Old January 13, 2014, 04:07 AM   #3
armsmaster270
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Didn't he say the Circuit Judge were manufactured with straight rifling?
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Old January 13, 2014, 09:00 AM   #4
Real Gun
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Quote:
What I really need is some seasoned advice as to what metallic die would serve the purpose of imparting a slight roll crimp in maybe the seating or crimping die?
Rossi Circuit Judge

You pose the question in the context of 410 shot shell, but I am going to assume, when referring to "metallic die" that you mean the 45 Colt alternative ammo. If I am on the right track, let's first establish what bullet type will be used...perhaps not lead in Kalifornia, eh?

Next let's measure the chamber throats. If tight, maybe .4510-.4515, you would want to avoid lead, until the throats are reamed to .4525 and you are prepared to resize bullets to .452. That should be what they measure, not what it says on the box.
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Old January 13, 2014, 09:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Also based upon the gun and the load involved (three #000 pellets is all that should fit I think, maybe four?), what type of powder would be best suited for such a load.(?)
Hodgdon Lil Gun and Alliant 410 seem to be the only specialty powders I could find mentioned by the powder companies. The rest is W296 by one name or another, which you wrote that you don't want.

None of them are into suggesting use with buckshot or slugs in the .410. If I were you, I would buy that kind of ammo. But I'm not sure it makes a difference other than total weight of the shot and the best suited wad and shell type.
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Old January 13, 2014, 10:14 AM   #6
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2400 would be a great choice and is not particularly finicky, but my concern is the short barrel and cylinder gap. I would probably do some work with a faster powder to take advantage of the short barrel. The .410 is the bastard stepchild of the shotgun world and the powders typically used are quite slow. Of course, those same powders were developed for use in a much longer tube with a different payload than what you envision. Probably 2400 would be your best bet.
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