223 case belling on Dillon 650

[billtheshrink]

I am attempting to use Barnes Match burner HP, 52 grains flat tail. I use Dillon 650 but have Lee dies. I was previously loading some 55 gr projectiles that sat nicely in the brass when seating. The Barnes 52 grain DOES NOT. I need to hold the bullet in place right into the seating die. Dillon informed me that there was no way to have it be otherwise with a flat bottom bullet. I am skeptical. Any tips or help here?
Thanks
Bill

[steve4102]

Dillon is correct.

You can try expanding the neck with a Lyman "M" die, otherwise you have to do it the way most of us do it, hold it until it enters the die.

[Unclenick]

The only Dillon-based cure I am aware of is one I applied in my .45 Auto, and that was to turn my own powder drop tube with a Lyman M die type flare profile on it to give the bullet a perch. But since you are using the 650 and have an extra station, you can buy a Lyman M die, set the powder dispenser up for minimum belling of the case mouth, then have the M die in the next position. It's probably where you have a powder check die now.

Below is what the M die flare profile looks like on a pistol case. One thing it does is start the bullets in straight, so they tilt less during seating. On my .45 Auto setup, the slight bulge you see in the case where the bullet base stops became dramatically more uniform. Cast bullet accuracy improved because of that. Some rifle chambers with jacketed bullets will shoot significantly better because of less bullet tilt, too, so you can look at buying the M die like making an accuracy investment.

The only issue is losing the powder check station. If you want to keep it, then you have to go to a standard seating die, rather than the Lee Dead Length die (if that's the one you have; if not, their standard seater will work), so you have a crimp shoulder that can be adjusted to remove the flare without a separate crimp die, then seat bullets at the last station.

[snuffy]

The powder measure station on a dillon 650 does not flare/bell rifle rounds. The FL sizer die sizes the inside of the neck as it withdraws the sizer button, that's all.

There's no reason you couldn't use a lyman "M" die to flare your case mouth. Is it wise? IMHO, no! You would then need to crimp to remove that belling. That means each and every case has to be the exact same length. If the bullet is smooth sided, IE no cannelure/crimp groove, you'd need to be real careful to not over-crimp. Over crimping with nowhere for the neck to go, no crimp groove will start to collapse the shoulder of the case. Result, shell jammed in the chamber.

Just get used to holding onto the bullet, guiding it into the seater die as you raise the ram. If you're careful, you won't get a chunk of your finger in the shell along with the bullet!

[Unclenick]

I should have made it clear that my example of the pistol round was not intended to suggest the Dillon rifle drop/actuator tubes do that. But lots of folks are using the M die for jacketed rifle loading these days to get bullets to seat straighter. Lyman even mentions that application on their web site.

You can now buy rifle taper crimp dies, which are the easiest way to remove the flare as the gradual taper makes exact length less critical than it is when using a roll crimp shoulder. In any case, it's the only store-bought alternative I can think of to holding the bullet.