|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
View Poll Results: What is the best strategy to deal with an unarmed mob like the milwaukee state fair? | |||
Do you run and hide/escape and hope that you can find a place where you can be secure? | 17 | 15.89% | |
Do you go to the assistance of a victim and attempt to stop the attack? | 13 | 12.15% | |
Do you draw your weapon without pointing it at anyone? | 4 | 3.74% | |
Do you calmly make your way out of the park and hope you aren't attacked? | 26 | 24.30% | |
If attacked do you defend yourself and your family (with lethal force if necessary)? | 93 | 86.92% | |
Do you take the beating and hope they don't kick you in the head too much and take your gun? | 0 | 0% | |
Would your decision be affected if your race was the same as the mob or the victims? | 4 | 3.74% | |
I don't think it happened, this thread is racist, and should be locked. | 1 | 0.93% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
August 6, 2011, 03:52 AM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2010
Location: United States of America
Posts: 1,877
|
now this is a mob
__________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864 |
August 6, 2011, 08:45 AM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 25, 2009
Location: Stuttgart, AR
Posts: 1,569
|
Ringolevio: You are correct that concealed firearms are banned from these type of events in some states.
I find it interesting there was no mention that any of the seven injured police officers felt compelled to shoot someone.
__________________
A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part. |
August 6, 2011, 03:21 PM | #28 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 10, 2001
Location: The Old Dominion
Posts: 1,521
|
Lesson One: Don't go to a state fair on a night that you might reasonably expect a higher likelihood of this sort of issue.
If I'm at a county or state fair, I'm with family, so that places some limits on my range of options. I will not - cannot - abandon my family to a mob to help out another victim. If I was alone, knowing myself, I probably would go to a victim's aid if there was even the slightest chance of rendering effective assistance. If attacked, I WILL be in fear for my life and will defend myself with all vigor, using any and all tools at my disposal. This commentary is from a columnist who just happened upon the scene and got clocked in the face for his troubles: Quote:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/126956088.html
__________________
"...A humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Ps. li "When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." —Frederic Bastiat Last edited by JohnKSa; August 7, 2011 at 08:39 PM. Reason: . |
|
August 6, 2011, 03:30 PM | #29 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 29, 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,097
|
@Mr James
Amen. As for that columnist, his house would have been robbed if he took that disadvantaged youth home with him. These scumbags deserve no sympathy.
__________________
My EDC: Gun Wallet Brain (Use this one the most) Last edited by JohnKSa; August 7, 2011 at 08:39 PM. Reason: . |
August 6, 2011, 07:23 PM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 20, 2009
Posts: 103
|
It's frightening ....
This thing does seem to be more and more common. Iowa state Fair is coming up and a similar thing happened last year. Racially motivated attacks.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6f4_1282757964 I believe you are not allowed to be armed at the fair here in Iowa so pretty much defenseless in a situatio like this. I may be skipping the fair this year. Last edited by JohnKSa; August 7, 2011 at 08:39 PM. Reason: . |
August 7, 2011, 12:11 AM | #31 |
Junior member
Join Date: April 3, 2010
Posts: 1,231
|
You can't shoot a mob and expect to come out alive. Most of us only have a couple magazines or speed loaders when we conceal carry and then you are done. Seek refuge in the best defensive position you can find, escape if you can. Trying to shoot hundreds of rampaging people in a mob is a lose, lose situation for sure that is likely to only enrage them further.
|
August 7, 2011, 10:51 AM | #32 | ||
Junior member
Join Date: March 1, 2006
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 4,000
|
Quote:
Quote:
I don't care about race or how hard the the poor bad guys had it growing up. I don't care if they are hating the color of my skin as they are attempting to injure me. What I do care about is not being injured and my family the same. I think slipping out or hiding would be ideal. If you are targeted fight and retreat if possible. I don't go to the Florida State Fair for this reason. Plus it is illegal to go armed as it is considered a place of nuisance. |
||
August 7, 2011, 12:58 PM | #33 | |
Member
Join Date: April 4, 2010
Location: Maitland, Florida
Posts: 71
|
Quote:
|
|
August 7, 2011, 01:40 PM | #34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 26, 2011
Location: alabama
Posts: 537
|
What i would do isnt on the poll.
I would run like a bat out of hell and hope nobody follows me. I would hate to have to shoot my pistol because of the attention it would bring to myself. That would be the last thing i would want, but i would if i had to....really really bad place to be
__________________
Two weapons that was designed by the same man still in use by the us military 100 years later...1911 and m2...is there anything that comes close.....lol annd maybe perhaps a sig sauer p226 tac ops edition.. |
August 7, 2011, 06:35 PM | #35 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
|
I wouldn't give a mob of vandals much credit for any sort of consistent motivation. They were awful children inflicting violence because they find it fun. There are many factors at work, and if we could get to the bottom of it, we'd likely find that racial differences played less of a role than free-floating aggression and poor parental guidance.
Quote:
Back to the original point of the thread: I would fire if I had no other option, but until that point, I would not draw or display my sidearm. If I'm up against a group that's already taken on an animalistic mob mentality, the display of a firearm might incite them to greater violence. I doubt it would dissuade them. Mobs are funny that way. A few months back, there was a flash-mob attack on a MARTA train in Atlanta, and we had a similar discussion. In that case (a closed subway car), I posited that there was really no safe and effective way to utilize a firearm without risking the lives of bystanders. This is a bit different. At an outdoor venue, I have the option to retreat. In this case, the use of a firearm might help expediate that process.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe Last edited by JohnKSa; August 7, 2011 at 08:44 PM. Reason: . |
|
August 7, 2011, 07:07 PM | #36 |
Member
Join Date: June 6, 2010
Posts: 86
|
I would like to thank the admins and mods of The Firing Line for not having closed this thread. Not all forums are equally courageous.
|
August 7, 2011, 08:30 PM | #37 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 27, 2009
Location: Az.
Posts: 509
|
As liberal as Az. gun laws are, we cannot carry @ the state fair. There are gangs everywhere there.
I do not go there. On shooting, I would think that you would draw too much attention to yourself. If you did shoot someone, what about over penetration & hitting an innocent? |
August 7, 2011, 08:44 PM | #38 |
Junior member
Join Date: July 31, 2011
Posts: 8
|
hmmm...
I read that on a road exiting the fair there was a group numbering in the hundreds stopping cars and trying to gain access to the occupied vehicles and running on top of the vehicles stomping on them while also beating a minor in the street. If this was me, and there was an open lane of traffic, id probably try to build up as much speed as possible and get in the oncoming lane which was surely vacant if this road was taking cars out of the fair. Best case scenario, they move and I drive out. Worst case scenario, I run over a few "speed bumps" on the way out..... and I promise you I wouldnt lose a wink of sleep. Anyone that acts like that deserves whatever they've got coming. I guess if I hit enough of them I might wreck and then I'd be screwed, but I promise you I'm not going out without taking a few with me. My Glock holds 15+1 rounds of .40. Thats more than enough to make a dent.
|
August 7, 2011, 08:47 PM | #39 |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,971
|
This is the "TACTICS and TRAINING" forum, not the "Solve the Racial Problems of America" forum.
I've deleted and edited a lot of posts on this thread so it can remain open for discussions about TACTICS and TRAINING relating to the original post. Commentary on racism, reverse racism, speculation about racial issues as a motivation (sufficient, insufficient or superficial) for mob violence, etc. are off topic.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
August 7, 2011, 08:53 PM | #40 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,720
|
Would head-shots perhaps be better if you must fire on an angry mob, since they might not even notice a few of their buddies going down, but splattering blood and brains and gore ought to give them something to think about?
I know you normally shoot COM because it makes a better target, but this isn't a normal situation.
__________________
"Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth Last edited by zxcvbob; August 7, 2011 at 09:15 PM. |
August 7, 2011, 08:58 PM | #41 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2010
Location: United States of America
Posts: 1,877
|
football
that was hilarious
__________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864 |
August 7, 2011, 08:58 PM | #42 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 24, 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 769
|
Quote:
__________________
gtalk:renfes steamID: Sefner |
|
August 7, 2011, 09:05 PM | #43 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Posts: 389
|
I think we need a good link / contact to someone that _knows_ what motivates people in a attack gang. This might give some insight as to what to do / not do. ( I'm thinking something on the military / police level with some psychology people mixed in. )
To go even farther, it would be good to know what motivates a single attacker and what works to keep them at bay. In another thread, someone in a command voice said " I don't have anything you want! ". It seemed that this worked pretty well on the drugged up BG. I'm guessing it worked because the BG was focused on getting something and when they were told it wasn't available the focus had to change. ( Telling them to keep away won't work because they are focused on getting something. ) |
August 7, 2011, 09:18 PM | #44 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Posts: 389
|
"" I've read in some tactics rags and articles that if faced with a mob, gang, or any sizable group, to try to find the leader and take them out first ""
I'm not convinced the Milwaukee incident had a single leader. It was likely more of a common target to focus on with individuals carrying out their own operations than one person directing the show. Some time back, there was a news report talking about mid east terror cells that ascribe to a common goal but are independent in operation. I'd think the fair incident is similar. In this case you have to go after the person attacking you rather than looking farther. |
August 7, 2011, 09:18 PM | #45 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
|
Quote:
I can't speak for the psychological factors, but I've had occasion to encounter a mob. Once things turn violent, there is no way to diffuse or de-escalate. Retreat is pretty much the only option unless you've got truly massive firepower, and you can live with taking a great many lives.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
|
August 7, 2011, 09:41 PM | #46 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,720
|
Quote:
I think if I kept that in mind, I could kill with a clear conscience. That doesn't mean it's the best tactic (but sometimes it might be) Quote:
__________________
"Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth |
||
August 7, 2011, 09:48 PM | #47 |
Junior member
Join Date: July 31, 2011
Posts: 8
|
Did I say anything about executing?
Im talking about a self defense situation. If i see a group of 300 coming at me, no matter what color, that are savagely beating everyone in sight and they make there way to me im either running them over with my car or im shooting all of them that stick their face in the hole where my window used to be that they just busted out. I cant kill them all, but Ill gladly take as many of them as i can before they get me.
|
August 7, 2011, 10:48 PM | #48 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,575
|
The mob situation is one where awareness of your surroundings is the most important .
First know when to get out of Dodge and how to get out of Dodge !! Since situations can change very quickly the very instant there is a problem leave INSTANTLY ! Don't wait to see what's happening . The gun is to be used only as a desperite last resort
__________________
And Watson , bring your revolver ! |
August 7, 2011, 11:05 PM | #49 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,720
|
Quote:
__________________
"Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth |
|
August 7, 2011, 11:36 PM | #50 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 18, 1999
Location: OKC Metro
Posts: 521
|
Having to shoot your way out
I wonder if instead of head shots, would knee capping be better? Would kneeling and shooting knee high get you more "buck for your bang". With modern ammo and over penetration you could probably put on the ground with each shot between 2 and 6 to 8 people.all screaming their heads off. The screaming of 12 or 14 shot people in the same area should slow any but the very very stupid. And you would (with a high cap mag) still have about 10 rounds for the very very stupid. You would be down lower so the crowd might not see you very well. Just a idea, maybe stupid but what the heck. As far as shooting "innocents" we all know if you were in the middle of that mob you are already guilty.
Also if you have had to do something like this, as soon as the LEO says hello the first words out of your mouth "I wish to speak to a lawyer." And that is only thing you say unless you are asking for medical treatment. And you keep repeating "I wish to speak to a lawyer". I mean what is the use of all these criminals getting US all of these rights if we do not use them. Last edited by OkieGentleman; August 7, 2011 at 11:42 PM. Reason: add info |
Tags |
attack , mob |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|