Accurate 308 Win Lead-Free Bullets?

beezaur · October 17, 2013, 09:58 PM

I'm back to shooting after over a year's absence (injuries), finally can shoulder my .308 again

Much has changed in lead-free bullets since I last paid attention. I'm looking for something for shooting to ~600 yds, something accurate. Game-worthy would be a big plus: coyotes and deer.

I've been looking at Barnes' LRX and MPG bullets.

It's a precision 7.62mm rifle with a 12-twist, 26" barrel. Might get a 10-twist barrel if bullets that require it are that good.

There was an X-Bullet when I last checked . . . sort of lost with all the choices now.

Any pointers are much appreciated.

AllenJ · October 17, 2013, 11:03 PM

I like both the TTSX and LRX, both have proven accurate and deadly in my experience using multiple calibers/rifles. That being said I do have a friend that only uses TSX's. He has nothing but good things to say about their game taking ability and gets sub 1/2" groups in his Vanguard S2 at the range. Remember that Barnes bullets need some steam behind them to expand. A Barnes rep stated to me that the LRX needs about 1600 fps to reliably expand whereas the TTSX and TSX need about 1800 fps. You'd be wise to pick your bullet weight accordingly.

fatwhiteboy · October 17, 2013, 11:25 PM

I use 168gr TSX bullets. Killed pigs out to 300 yards with no problem.

beezaur · October 17, 2013, 11:49 PM

Thanks guys.

Can these bullets use the same powders as lead/copper conventional bullets in the same weights?

jmr40 · October 18, 2013, 08:53 AM

The load data for copper bullets is different. If using Barnes bullets you can get load data from their website.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/load-data/

Sometimes the same powders work well enough, but the load data is much different.

The Barnes bullets shoot more accurately when seated deeper in the case than most bullets. You'll need to experiment with seating depth for best accuracy.

They may shoot accurately at extended ranges, but are not a good choice for long range hunting. They need a lot of speed at impact in order to expand. If they hit game at speeds under about 2000 fps they don't expand reliably and a lot of guys prefer speeds closer to 2200 fps. I know Barnes says 1800 fps, but bullets I've seen that hit below 2000 fps did not impress me with expansion. A bullet such as the Bergers, SST's or Nosler Ballistic tip will expand at speeds as slow as 1500 fps or so and are better options for long range hunting.

You need to drop down at least 1, maybe 2 bullet weights for more speed with them for best hunting performance. If you would normally use a 165 gr bullet, then a 150 or 130 is a better choice with the Barnes bullets. A 165 only starts at about 2700-2750 fps and will drop below 2000fps at fairly close range. Look at the loading data. If you can't start it at 3000 fps, keep dropping weight until you can. The 165 and heavier bullets are best used in magnums.

And you don't need the heavier bullets with copper. Traditional lead bullets lose 20-50% of their weight at impact. That means a 165 gr lead bullet @ 2700 fps ends up weighing 80-130 gr after impact. A 130 gr copper bullet @3100 fps will still weigh 128-130 gr after impact and give much better expansion and penetration. This still keeps me above 2000 fps beyond 400 yards.

For what what you want to do I'd look at a 155 or 168 gr Berger. They have a higher BC, shoot flatter and are more accurate. They make a hunting bullet and target bullet. I've found the hunting bullet to be just as accurate. They are designed to stay together for 2-3" of pentration then basically explode in an animls chest cavity, even at quite slow speeds. Not a good choice for taking large game at bad angles because you don't get deep penetration like the copper, but will kill better at all ranges if you put one in the lungs. They are cheaper too, about $45/100 vs about $30/50 for copper bullets.

beezaur · October 18, 2013, 04:47 PM

I should clarify my shooting: the longer range stuff is targets. It's a precision rifle first, a hunting rifle second. All the same, I am most familiar with it, so it's nice to have a hunting option for it.

I trap my bullets when possible, but in some cases it would be nice to not worry about spraying lead powder all over if copper can work. Even at 800 m a bullet turns into a cloud of metal against my target.

My hunting distances are considerably shorter. Making steel ring is one thing; humanely killing an animal is quite another.

October 17, 2013, 09:58 PM	#1
beezaur Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Posts: 231	Accurate 308 Win Lead-Free Bullets? I'm back to shooting after over a year's absence (injuries), finally can shoulder my .308 again Much has changed in lead-free bullets since I last paid attention. I'm looking for something for shooting to ~600 yds, something accurate. Game-worthy would be a big plus: coyotes and deer. I've been looking at Barnes' LRX and MPG bullets. It's a precision 7.62mm rifle with a 12-twist, 26" barrel. Might get a 10-twist barrel if bullets that require it are that good. There was an X-Bullet when I last checked . . . sort of lost with all the choices now. Any pointers are much appreciated.

October 17, 2013, 11:25 PM	#3
fatwhiteboy Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 317	I use 168gr TSX bullets. Killed pigs out to 300 yards with no problem. __________________ Fat White So Cal

October 17, 2013, 11:03 PM	#2
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	I like both the TTSX and LRX, both have proven accurate and deadly in my experience using multiple calibers/rifles. That being said I do have a friend that only uses TSX's. He has nothing but good things to say about their game taking ability and gets sub 1/2" groups in his Vanguard S2 at the range. Remember that Barnes bullets need some steam behind them to expand. A Barnes rep stated to me that the LRX needs about 1600 fps to reliably expand whereas the TTSX and TSX need about 1800 fps. You'd be wise to pick your bullet weight accordingly.

October 17, 2013, 11:49 PM	#4
beezaur Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Posts: 231	Thanks guys. Can these bullets use the same powders as lead/copper conventional bullets in the same weights?

October 18, 2013, 08:53 AM	#5
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,808	The load data for copper bullets is different. If using Barnes bullets you can get load data from their website. http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/load-data/ Sometimes the same powders work well enough, but the load data is much different. The Barnes bullets shoot more accurately when seated deeper in the case than most bullets. You'll need to experiment with seating depth for best accuracy. They may shoot accurately at extended ranges, but are not a good choice for long range hunting. They need a lot of speed at impact in order to expand. If they hit game at speeds under about 2000 fps they don't expand reliably and a lot of guys prefer speeds closer to 2200 fps. I know Barnes says 1800 fps, but bullets I've seen that hit below 2000 fps did not impress me with expansion. A bullet such as the Bergers, SST's or Nosler Ballistic tip will expand at speeds as slow as 1500 fps or so and are better options for long range hunting. You need to drop down at least 1, maybe 2 bullet weights for more speed with them for best hunting performance. If you would normally use a 165 gr bullet, then a 150 or 130 is a better choice with the Barnes bullets. A 165 only starts at about 2700-2750 fps and will drop below 2000fps at fairly close range. Look at the loading data. If you can't start it at 3000 fps, keep dropping weight until you can. The 165 and heavier bullets are best used in magnums. And you don't need the heavier bullets with copper. Traditional lead bullets lose 20-50% of their weight at impact. That means a 165 gr lead bullet @ 2700 fps ends up weighing 80-130 gr after impact. A 130 gr copper bullet @3100 fps will still weigh 128-130 gr after impact and give much better expansion and penetration. This still keeps me above 2000 fps beyond 400 yards. For what what you want to do I'd look at a 155 or 168 gr Berger. They have a higher BC, shoot flatter and are more accurate. They make a hunting bullet and target bullet. I've found the hunting bullet to be just as accurate. They are designed to stay together for 2-3" of pentration then basically explode in an animls chest cavity, even at quite slow speeds. Not a good choice for taking large game at bad angles because you don't get deep penetration like the copper, but will kill better at all ranges if you put one in the lungs. They are cheaper too, about $45/100 vs about $30/50 for copper bullets.

October 18, 2013, 04:47 PM	#6
beezaur Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Posts: 231	I should clarify my shooting: the longer range stuff is targets. It's a precision rifle first, a hunting rifle second. All the same, I am most familiar with it, so it's nice to have a hunting option for it. I trap my bullets when possible, but in some cases it would be nice to not worry about spraying lead powder all over if copper can work. Even at 800 m a bullet turns into a cloud of metal against my target. My hunting distances are considerably shorter. Making steel ring is one thing; humanely killing an animal is quite another.