Reloading-induced shoulder injury?

[frumious]

All,

I feel like the world's biggest wuss for asking this but here goes. Has any of you ever hurt your shoulder while reloading?

I reload 9mm, .45acp, .38spl, and .44mag on an RCBS pro2000 manual-index progrssive press. I don't lube or clean cases. Earlier this year I began experiencing an aching in my right shoulder. Worse in the mornings usually, after I get up. Some days almost no pain. Other days, pain in the morning that subsides quite a bit (but doesn't go away entirely) after I get up and get moving. Other days, pain in the morning and pain throughout the day. Just an ache. Sometimes more ache at the limits of motion (e.g. arm across chest, or outstretched above head, or reaching up my back to scratch).

I first noticed the pain after shooting the new rifle I got for Christmas. Before you say "Ah-ha!!!", let me tell you what kind of rifle it is - a scoped Ruger 10/22 carbine. Not exactly a handful. I shoot it only from seated rest on top of sandbags. I've only shot it 3-4 times, maybe back in March or April. I thought at first my form/technique was terrible and that I had pinched or bruised something. But after weeks of no rifle there was no change.

So I went to an orthopaedic doctor and he thought I had a problem in my right shoulder "capsule" (a term I had never heard of). He diagnosed me by bending and compressing my arm different ways until he found the move that made my shoulder hurt. He sent me to a physical therapist who gave me some stretches to perform. I am in the middle of doing those...we'll see if they help.

Anyway, I seem to notice after a reloading session that the next morning the pain is worse. I reload maybe 2-300 rounds at a sitting every few weeks. I sit when I reload. The press is mounted to my desk, the top surface of which is 30" from the floor. I figure the reloading is aggravating the injury, but today I had a thought that it might be the cause of the injury (?)

Do any of you have any thoughts? And, although this is the wrong forum, what about the rifle theory? Can you screw up your shoulder just by holding a rifle firmly against it?

BTW I am 38 years old, 215 lbs, 6'0" tall, work a desk job, get light regular exercise, and am getting used to the fact that random things hurt for no apparent reason these days.

-cls
(not a wuss)
(really)

[BigJimP]

shoulder issues are not a good thing ....and for what its worth ...after lots of abuse over the years, sports, moving things that I should have left alone, etc ...and shotgunning ( about 1,000 shells a week ) ...my right shoulder was a mess too.

It hurt to do anything ...arm over my head to put a glass away in the cabinet ..or pick up anything over about 8 oz .../ so yes, reloading or anything causing a range of motion like that can tear your butt up ..

My hope for you / is do what the therapist tells you ...get it better / and work out religiously to make it stronger. If it gets better great .../ if it doesn't a complete re-build ( torn bicep, torn rotator cuff ...and all that stuff ) which I finally had done was not a piece of cake ...and it took me a solid 9 months to recover. I do not wish it on anyone .... / but I'm relatively pain free, have 80% of my strength back ( about half of my bicep strength back ) and I can still shoot 250 shells a day / 2 or 3 days a week out of my shotguns ...

its not about how big you are ....I'm 6'5", 275 lbs and 60 yrs old ...its about how stupid some of us are about abusing our joints / especially shoulders ....and sometimes we get lucky ( and I hope you do ) ---and sometimes we need to find a good surgeon ! Just do what they tell you and hope for the best !

My Dillon 650 wasn't too bad on my shoulder ....but sleeping on my side or back ... causes the shoulder muscles to load / and it hurts. I have a good bed - a DUX bead / and it helps ...but on days when it was really bad, I'd go sit in a recliner and take the load off my shoulder and it was better. Its hard not to lift things /even when you know you shouldn't ...and shooting, even moderate recoil guns, can take its toll / and most doctors know little or nothing about recoil.

[MO. Shootin]

I would build a reloading bench so I could stand up and use my body weight to help with the reloading. Might just be the repetitive motion causing the problem though.

I use the hornady spray lube on my pistol cases just because it makes it so much easier. I used to wipe the loaded rounds off with a baby wipe to get the lube off but I just bought a tumbler and am going to just throw them in there from now on.

Do you have a teenage kid or a neighbor kid you could pay to do the resizing for you. Thats the least dangerous and most physical part of it.
Well maybe you should make them where leather gloves so they don't punch a chunk out of there finger.

Don't feel like a wuss bud we are all getting older and you never know when you are going to get thrown a curve ball. We are all dealing with something.

[BigJakeJ1s]

I agree with the standing up suggestion. The body motion can reduce the required shoulder motion, and also allow you to vary it such that you don't get a completely repetitive shoulder motion. Make sure you are standing on padded carpet or a high quality (industrial) mat made for the purpose (extended standing on it), or your feet/knees/back may start to pay the price.

Andy

[Mike-Mat]

Hadn't reloaded in 25 years. When I re-start using my Lymann Turret press, I was going to town on some 9mm shells. Next day the tendons in my wrist started hurting real bad. Thought I was going to need surgery. I couldn't even play guitar.

Solution: I bought a progressive press so I could hurt my other hand :-) j/k

It's been about 3 months since then. It's just healed now. I'm still going to give it another couple of weeks till I try playing guitar again.

Any repetitive motion can hurt you.

Mike Mattera

[zippy13]

Due to lumbar problems, I load seated, too. Perhaps you're best bet is to do no loading nor shooting until your shoulder heals completely. I'm no familiar with your press; but, your chair/stool and loader heights may not be compatible. Your ortho probably doesn't make doesn't make house calls; but, you need his advice: Can you have someone take some pics take of you loading and shooting so the good doctor has an accurate idea of your posture and the range of motion you use for both tasks?

Got tumbler? Got case lube? Got well polished dies?

[Lost Sheep]

Zippy13, I have not drawn a conclusion yet, but for my straight-walled reloading, I am suspecting that dirty brass (carbon and soot, not grit) resizes easier than clean brass.

frumious, I would (if your press can do it) switch the lever over to use your left arm. And, by all means, discuss the ergonomics of your loading bench with your physical therapist. A large part of PTs' profession is designing work spaces to avoid occupational injuries. You've got him available. Take advantage of his expertise. Even if the press is not the cause of your primary injury, prevention is better than cure.

Zippy13 is right about needing (or at least, in a postion to benefit from) his advice.

Good luck and swift recovery.

Lost Sheep

[the_right_reverend]

my solution for the aches and pains from reloading get the tallest old bar stool I could find and build a bench tall enough to sit at comfortably........

I use a 30" stool and my bench is around 41-42" tall that put the top of the lever around just below my chest, I am pretty much pulling straight back and down so it make real easy to do a full length resizing or a case form

I am 5'11" and around 180

Using a table and chair used to give me back pain

now just a occasional blister on the thumb

[Mike Irwin]

Yes.

I have a bad shoulder to begin with. I can, at will, pop it about 75% out of socket. It's given me problems for many years.

If I'm not careful, the repetitive movements of working my press will really cause it to hurt like crazy for a couple of days.

I find that if I keep my elbow tight to my side that pretty much negates the effects. Cuts down on mobility a bit, but that's better than narfing a whole bottle of ibuprofen.

[MO. Shootin]

So that is how Mike keeps getting out of his straight jacket. Mods he is on here again.

Thats just a little joke Mike don't kick me off please.

[oneounceload]

Add in all of the above and you mentioned a desk job - use your right hand a lot on the mouse? Add it all together and you have what most of do - some form of repetitive motion or uncle Art or Burs paying you a visit

[Stargazer]

I was doing some reloading the other day, 45 Colt brass, and I use Lee dies. The Lee expander die has a floating piece inside to add some "ka-thunk" to the upstroke of the handle to aid "powder through expander die". I had one that was sort of stuck and I wasn't in the best leverage position seated to apply upstroke pressure but I did anyway. Wrong move on my part, I actually hurt my shoulder some with that move. Couple three days later it eased up, note to self, do not use excessive force on the press while seated.

[Baryngyl]

frumious,

Have you had any kind of infection in the last 4 years and were given Cipro (Ciprofloxacin) antibiotic either as a IV and/or pill?

It has been determined that Cipro causes torn/ruptured rotator cuffs and Achilles tendons and other things in some people.

On 03/31/2004 I was admitted into the ER for epididymitis, I was given IV Cipro till 04/07/2004 when I was discharged from the hospital, I was given a prescription for 500mg Cipro pills twice a day for an additional 26 days.

Approximately 7 or 8 months later I developed a rotator cuff tear overnight and did not do anything that could have caused it.

I have been suffering from the extreme shoulder pain ever since.

I am hopefully going to be cleared for the shoulder surgery pretty soon by my family doctor.

The most pain is trying to reach up to scratch your back and trying to lift your arm straight out to the side.

If your PT does not help you may want to get them to check for a torn rotator cuff.


Michael Grace

[Don P]

You could hire one of the kids off the block to pull the handle, or a well endowed female type.

[frumious]

Don P, that advice seems to run counter to the "don't get distracted while reloading" advice I usually see :-)

Baryngyl, that's really really interesting. I don't go to the doctor too often but I do occaionally. I need to call my pharmacy and see if I've ever been prescribed that stuff. It seems like I was prescribed some sort of antibiotic at some point in the not-too-distant past (probably for a sinus infection, my annual ailment) and thought to myself "What is this stuff that's costing me $30...next time I'm gonna ask for penicillin which will be more like $2".

*UPDATE* - it was Ceftin - so that wasn't it.

In related news, my wife is on Cipro _right_now_ *yikes*

Thanks very very much for all the advice.

-cls

[GP100man]

frumios

18 months ago I tore my cuff2/3rds loose & the tendon from the collar bone that holds up the peck & bicep muscles & tendons .

Came within a nats behind of gettin a titanium shoulder because of a chip on the bone !!

Surgery went good 6 weeks my theraipist started movin everything , I asked what I could do at home she said nuttin for 2 weeks , no weight pullin on nuttin .

When she turned me loose she sent a sheet home with the motions to exercise my shoulder 1 was a straight pull , I sized 38s !!! then did my other overhead pulley pulls & to many to name .

She marveled at the progress I made & told me to continue doing what I was doing !!

My bench is 36" from the floor, when I get tired I stop & rest .

Your problem sounds like tendonitis ????? maybe

Rest & hot ,then cold ,then hot compresseses stretches rest .

[80viking]

Yup, I think that I need to get rid of the chair.

[Spats McGee]

Yup, old thread.