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January 16, 2013, 09:39 AM | #201 | |
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Obama can not ban any assault weapons or magazines without Congress. Congress seems to be unwilling to pass such laws so, how will what Obama CAN do "mimic" NY's laws? I edited my post. I reread the NY law on the 7-10rd mags.
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January 16, 2013, 09:46 AM | #202 | |
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January 16, 2013, 09:50 AM | #203 | |
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All magazines "obtained after the effective date of the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen" may not be able to hold more than 7 rounds and are not readily able to be modified to hold more rounds. Source: Page 32 line 26, section (c). http://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/a...-vote-tonight/ Seems to me that this wording would effectively prohibit sales of most semi-auto pistols as they wouldn't meet this magazine requirement because of the word "obtained" and not "manufactured". Is it enforceable? Probably not, but it could, in theory, put a halt on sales for the time being. |
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January 16, 2013, 10:02 AM | #204 |
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And by effectively banning the vast majority of handguns in common use does this fall afoul of Heller as being overly restrictive.
They haven't banned all handguns, just the vast majority in common use...
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January 16, 2013, 10:09 AM | #205 | |
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I think the only way to get at least the magazine-Defacto semi auto ban changed without the courts is if every gun maker takes a stand.
If tomorrow Glock, Sig, Smith, Bushmaster, Colt, etc. all refused all LE sales and support to the entire state of New York until they at least went back to a 10 round magazine limit it would send a message. When the cops and guards who protect these politicians suddenly can't buy new guns and can't buy parts to fix their guns without going out of state maybe it will bring some of these ivory tower types down to earth. I know Barrett did this to California; the problem is that the Barrett product line is limited to a highly specialized section of precision long range rifles. Restrictions on LEO sales of those rifles has very little effect on the vast majority of LEO's in California. If suddenly the NYPD can't get new Glocks, Glock parts etc for their rank and file we might actually see results. I know that doing so puts LEO's potentially in danger due to using old unreliable weapons or a lack of new parts, but these states obviously do not care about losing jobs if gun manufacturers move so this is the only leverage gun manufacturers have left. Quote:
Seriously though, I don't know how this stands up in the face of Heller. I think NY State bit off more than they can chew and if they don't change the 7 round limit or somehow exempt handguns then its a legal fight they are going to lose.
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January 16, 2013, 10:32 AM | #206 |
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I agree Patriot86; NY's end run to ban without banning looks too smart for it's own good. It may get slapped down by the court as too restrictive.
As far as the manufacturers boycotting NY... First ALL SHOOTERS must announce they will boycott the manufacturers if they don't take a stand. If Glock is still going to sell to NY LEOs then you need to show Glock that the decision will cost them more than taking a stand. Sadly I have seen enough gun owners nationally, particularly on this forum, thumb their noses at those of us fighting for the 2A from within NY. I expect we will be left as high and dry as usual although I do appreciate the sympathy many have shown for us. Remember, Cuomo wants NY to be the national model. Those are his words.
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January 16, 2013, 10:40 AM | #207 | |
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January 16, 2013, 11:06 AM | #208 |
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Patroit, Glock et al may not be able to do that. They probably signed a contract with those jurisdictions requiring delivery of X guns, and repair support for Y duration...
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January 16, 2013, 11:12 AM | #209 | |
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January 16, 2013, 11:20 AM | #210 |
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@Jim: Then they should refuse to renew the contract whenever it comes up again. Depending on how well written it is Glock may be able to find legal grounds to get out of it.
This wont/cant work if just Glock does this. The NYPD would just switch to Smith or SIG. The industry needs to have a sitdown and agree they are ALL going to do it. At least the guys popular with the LE Community like Glock, SIG, Smith, Colt etc. Unless gun makers act now the LEO market might be the only viable market left in a few short years. If they were doing this kind of stuff with HVAC equipment (what I sell for a living) I would be seriously worried about my future prosperity.
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January 16, 2013, 11:36 AM | #211 |
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I live in NYC and our rifles are restricted to 5 rounds in a mag. Pistols are 10. I wanted a lever action marlin 39 in 22 lr but I can't have it because its over 5 rounds. So I had to buy 45-70 marlin because the mag will only fit 5. If u have a ruger 10-22 and bought an aftermarket stock u are most likely now own a assault rifle. My 1911 came with 3 mags 8, 7 and 7 rounds. But now if I want a 9 mm I probably will never be able to buy if because it can fit 15-19 rounds. My tikka in 223 is waiting for a chassis system that comes with a pistol grip and that will make it an illegal assault rifle. My 1941 mosin nagant can be an assault rifle because it can have a bayonet. Living in nYc I came in terms with such stringent gun laws. I didnt think but can get worse but now I am better of owning only Revolvers. If they find u have 8 rounds in stead of 7 it's a misdemeanor. And if u have misdemeanor so now u will lose all ur gun rights. U got a red light ticket or a speeding ticket? Now wen u renew and they run a background check u r no longer deemed as a law abiding citizens and will have ur rights to own a gun taken away.
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January 16, 2013, 11:56 AM | #212 |
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I think a mod deleted my last post on this topic, so maybe I framed it a little poorly:
A 7-round .458 SOCOM is entirely identical to a 20-round .223/5.56 magazine. Assuming that you have a .458 SOCOM firearm (or upper), what's to prevent you from saying those magazines are for your .458 and keeping them, or even importing more? You could use a paint marker to list them as .458, keep single .458 rounds in them while they're in storage, etc. Keep separate magazines for your .223. In the meantime, the .458 magazines are still available for "misappropriation" if you take a trip to a free state, or if/when the Supremes overturn the ban. Also, what's the over/under for the grand opening of the first "Last Chance Ammo Store" 10 feet over the state line into Vermont?
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January 16, 2013, 12:03 PM | #213 |
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Hello
Hi guys, I'm new to these forums and I've been following this legislation for the past couple of days. It seems they snuck in some extra "goodies" inside this bill no one had time to read. S 265.02 seems to mention possession of three or more firearms "criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree" and therefore a Class D Felony.
I am from Canada. This is how it starts. Up here mere possession of a firearm is a criminal offence, the license simply protects you from prosecution. But since they expire every 5 years, the police can simply choose not to renew them, and arrest you. The writing is on the wall for NY. |
January 16, 2013, 12:23 PM | #214 |
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Wow this thread is getting long... with good reason.
I too am unfortunately located in NY. I have only read a small portion of the text on the new laws. If there is anyone that has read the entire thing, maybe you could answer this. On another forum I read that under this new law it is now another violation to target shoot on your own, private property. You must go to an accredited range to practice. Again this was on another forum and is why I'm questioning it. PS: The Buffalo news today requested that the Erie County Pistol Permit office turn over a copy of the permit holder database so they could publish names and address just like another eastern county did a week or so back. At least our rep David DiPietro is standing up for us and demanding the office with hold the data from the news. Mr. DiPietro voted against these new laws. FWIW thank you.
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January 16, 2013, 01:29 PM | #215 |
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Vote breakdown for bill # S02230
From the NY State Senate dot org site:
http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi (I addedd party affiliation for reference) Vote Senator Party Aye Adams DEM Aye Addabbo DEM Aye Avella DEM Aye Boyle GOP Aye Breslin DEM Aye Carlucci DEM Aye Diaz DEM Aye Dilan DEM Aye Espaillat DEM Aye Felder DEM/GOP Aye Flanagan GOP Aye Fuschillo GOP Aye Gianaris DEM Aye Gipson DEM Aye Golden GOP Aye Grisanti GOP Aye Hannon GOP Aye Hassell-Thompson DEM Aye Hoylman DEM Aye Kennedy DEM Aye Klein DEM Aye Krueger DEM Aye Lanza GOP Aye Latimer DEM Aye LaValle GOP Aye Marcellino GOP Aye Martins GOP Aye Montgomery DEM Aye O'Brien DEM Aye Parker DEM Aye Peralta DEM Aye Perkins DEM Aye Rivera DEM Aye Sampson DEM Aye Sanders DEM Aye Savino DEM Aye Serrano DEM Aye Skelos GOP Aye Smith DEM Aye Squadron DEM Aye Stavisky DEM Aye Stewart-Cousins DEM Aye Valesky IDC EXC Zeldin GOP Nay Ball GOP Nay Bonacic GOP Nay DeFrancisco GOP Nay Farley GOP Nay Gallivan GOP Nay Griffo GOP Nay Larkin GOP Nay Libous GOP Nay Little GOP Nay Marchione GOP Nay Maziarz GOP Nay Nozzolio GOP Nay O'Mara GOP Nay Ranzenhofer GOP Nay Ritchie GOP Nay Robach GOP Nay Seward GOP Nay Young GOP Even in what has been referred to as a rushed call for a vote, there was only one Senator absent. The current NY Senate is 63 members.
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January 16, 2013, 02:15 PM | #216 |
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Zeldin, the absent GOP state senator, is my senator and released a statement opposing the law. He is serving two weeks with the Army Reserves in VA and was therefore unable to vote.
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January 16, 2013, 02:20 PM | #217 |
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11 GOP turncoats including the GOP leader in the Senate.
Not one Democrat voted NAY. Now I'm not saying one party is undeniably worse on the 2A than another because that would be wrong. I'll just let everyone here look at this vote and look into the cast majority of other gun control votes and make their own decisions.
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January 16, 2013, 04:57 PM | #218 | |||
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The act appears to ratchet up the sentencing guidelines for persons convicted of Class D felonies under S 265.02, but the "three or more firearms" provision appears to have been preexisting; I am generally unfamiliar with NY penal law other than this new act, so I have no idea how long this provision has been in force, but this law apparently did not create it. Quote:
However, there appears to be one interesting but narrow exception to the 7-round rule. Quote:
Apparently, you're allowed to load more than 7 rounds when you're on the premises of an organized shooting range, but you must be using an 8-10rd magazine when you do it.
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"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak Last edited by carguychris; January 16, 2013 at 04:59 PM. Reason: minor reword... |
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January 16, 2013, 05:14 PM | #219 |
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What I find amusing is that these mags obtained after the law goes into effect need to be sold out of state within 1 year. If higher capacity mags are so dangerous, why are they ok for our fellow Americans in neighboring states?
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January 16, 2013, 05:19 PM | #220 | ||
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FWIW I'll gladly accept pre-ban mags from New Yorkers; your mags will happily live out their useful lives in sunny, warm, and gun-friendly Texas in the company of other standard-capacity magazines. PM me if there are any takers. Beretta 84 or Browning BDA 380 mags are particularly welcome. Quote:
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January 16, 2013, 05:23 PM | #221 |
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They aren't, but can you imagine the reaction if NY tried to legislate what Jersey residents were allowed to have in Jersey?
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January 16, 2013, 06:58 PM | #222 | ||
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From article 265 of the NYS Penal Law Quote:
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January 16, 2013, 07:31 PM | #223 |
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Here's hoping the gun manufacturers don't start making 7 round mags. That way it might give the Heller argument more teeth.
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January 16, 2013, 07:37 PM | #224 | |
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Also for this law does not affect the following: (I) ANY RIFLE, SHOTGUN OR PISTOL THAT (A) IS MANUALLY OPERATED BY BOLT, PUMP, LEVER OR SLIDE ACTION; (B) HAS BEEN RENDERED PERMANENTLY INOPERABLE; OR (C) IS AN ANTIQUE FIREARM AS DEFINED IN 18 U.S.C. 921(A)(16); Hope this helps a little bit, Stu |
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January 16, 2013, 07:45 PM | #225 | |
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