Transfer of ownership of pistol

.40 to go · September 28, 2011, 05:04 PM

My grandfather has a pistol he wants to give me. He is from MI and I am from NC. I was told I had to get a purchase permit but i was also told i had to get it transferred to my name by someone who could do it and pay $25. Is this true legally to own it.

.40 to go · September 28, 2011, 06:34 PM

anyone?

Justice06RR · September 28, 2011, 06:37 PM

Unfortunately since you live in different states, I believe you have to go through an FFL. If you lived in the same state, it would not be an issue and he can just hand you the firearm with no legalities involved.

check with a local gun shop to be certain, but as far as I know, transfers involving 2 different states needs a FFL

oneounceload · September 28, 2011, 07:01 PM

As far as NC regs go, I can't help; but as far as transferring the gun - you need to find an FFL in your state to do the transfer - most charge somewhere in the $25 area. You will need to make sure that the FFL will accept the shipment from a non-FFL (your father). If he won't then your father will need to use a FFL on his end as well to ship it. This can actually be cheaper since a non-FFL can only ship via the UPS/Fedex route and that is very expensive, whereas a FFL can use USPS flat rate box

**Frank Ettin** · September 28, 2011, 07:06 PM

The easiest thing for the OP to do is find a local FFL who will do the transfer. The OP's father, or an FFL on his behalf, can then simply send the gun to the OP's transfer FFL who will transfer the gun. It would be legal for the OP's father to send the gun directly to the transfer FFL, but some FFLs will not, as a matter of business practice, accept a gun for transfer directly from an individual.

The transfer FFL will transfer the gun to the OP with all normal formalities, i. e., completion of a 4473 and satisfaction of any state law requirements in the OP's State or residence.

[1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL.

[2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

[3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer is in compliance with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complied with the law of the transferee's State of residence.

[4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

[5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

[6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

Don H · September 28, 2011, 08:41 PM

By the way, .40 to go, in your case a FFL would most likely be a gun shop or gun dealer. FFL means Federal Firearms Licensee.

Welcome to TFL!

**Frank Ettin** · September 28, 2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don H

By the way, .40 to go, in your case a FFL would most likely be a gun shop or gun dealer. FFL means Federal Firearms Licensee.

Oops, I probably should have made that clear. Sorry. Thanks.

Furminator · September 29, 2011, 12:27 PM

If there are no legal reasons barring either of you from owning a handgun and he obeys the laws for transporting a handgun through the states he will be driving, that should pretty much be it.

BarryLee · September 29, 2011, 01:26 PM

Actually I think he may need to go to a gun shop in MI and pay them to transfer the gun to a gun shop in NC. Then the local gun shop will transfer the gun to you. Visit a local shop and discuss this with them and see if they can assist. I may be mistaken, so maybe someone else will chime in.

raftman · September 29, 2011, 01:31 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but unless the gun is an antique (pre-1899), because the transfer is between states, it must go through a licensed dealer.

What would have to happen is your grandfather would either have to ship the gun to a federally licensed dealer in your state and then you would have to pick the gun up from this dealer, or if he happens to come for a visit, he can go with you to the licensed dealer. In either case, what you do then is fill out the paperwork and pass a background check as if you were actually buying a gun (there is almost always a fee for this), and then the gun is all yours.

Furminator · September 29, 2011, 01:41 PM

I was under the impression that if it was a gift exchanged between two legally eligible people, no more paper work was required. I mean, I've given and been given guns in the past and I never filled out any paper work or even heard it was required.

MLeake · September 29, 2011, 01:45 PM

Furminator, not to pick on you, because I was under the same mistaken impression for years.... but Federal law requires a handgun be transferred via an FFL, for interstate transfers. The FFL must be in the receiving state.

.40 to go, I'd recommend you go to gunbroker.com, and look at their "Find an FFL" page. Enter your zip code, and pull up the list of local FFLs. Call them, find out what their transfer fees are, and if they will accept the gun directly from your grandfather. Some FFLs will only accept an out-of-state gun from an FFL in the originating state.

Once you've found the FFL you want to deal with, he will tell you how to proceed.

raftman · September 29, 2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

I was under the impression that if it was a gift exchanged between two legally eligible people, no more paper work was required. I mean, I've given and been given guns in the past and I never filled out any paper work or even heard it was required.

This is true for transfers within many (maybe even most) states, but not when it's between two different states. For example, I live in Oregon, if I wanted to gift a gun to someone else in Oregon, then all that is legally required is for me not to have any reason to believe the recipient isn't eligible. No paperwork, FFL's, etc.

I have a brother who lives in a neighboring state, however... so if I wanted to gift him a gun, or he wanted to gift a gun to me, it would need go through an FFL, fill out paperwork, and do the background check.

WVsig · September 29, 2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

My grandfather wants to give me a handgun as a gift. He lives in MI and I live in NC. Can he just drive down here and give it to me. If not please tell me what we need to do.

No you cannot simply transfer the gun in that manner. He has to bring the gun or ship the gun to a local FFL where they will transfer it to you. You will fill out a 4473 along with any state paperwork.

dajowi · September 29, 2011, 04:31 PM

Perhaps what you should do is "borrow" the hand gun. No legal tit tat.

Chaz88 · September 29, 2011, 04:39 PM

How about you move in with your grandfather long enough to establish residency then he can give you the gun and then you can move with it.

What a pain, I have never heard of anyone going through all that to gift a gun to a relative. Guess I learned more than one new thing today.

dickttx · September 29, 2011, 05:23 PM

As dajowi said, I believe you can loan anyone, who can legally own one, a handgun.
Did some research on this a while back in relation to my grandson who lives 150 miles from me but in OK rather than TX. Found out that since he is not 21, he couldn't legally own one.

MLeake · September 29, 2011, 05:40 PM

There are restrictions on interstate loans of handguns as well.

Not sure why people are so eager to avoid $50 in transfer fees and a 4473 form, but in theory at least we aren't supposed to recommend circumventing or breaking the law on TFL.

Just realize that's what some of you folks are, in fact, recommending.

dickttx · September 29, 2011, 05:42 PM

I don't think anyone is trying to do that. I think we are trying to determine what the law is. There is considerable difference.

ScotchMan · September 29, 2011, 05:48 PM

Varies by state. In this fine state, all your guns must be printed on your permit, so you would have to go through this process. It is also true all interstate transfers must go through FFLs.

On top of that, I think North Carolina may require something; I know they do issue permits, so based on that I don't think there's any way it could be legal to not involve FFLs and probably the state.

MLeake · September 29, 2011, 05:52 PM

There's a sporting purposes requirement for interstate loans, which the ATF (AFAIK) has not defined very clearly. From what I understand, keeping the gun in the nightstand, and occasionally taking it to the range, don't qualify.

It costs me $50 to have my LGS ship a handgun via USPS to an FFL anywhere in the US. (Note: That is LESS than it would cost me to drive to the FedEx or UPS hubs in my area, and ship the gun overnight on my own.)

It costs me $30 to have my LGS do a receiving transfer to me, from some other state.

What is the huge hairy deal? (Aside from the tinfoil-hatters who fear the 4473 forms....)

MLeake · September 29, 2011, 05:54 PM

ScotchMan, NC requires purchase permits ($5 at your friendly local sheriff) to buy a gun from an FFL.

I don't believe said permits are required for private in-state sales; I am not sure if they are required for interstate FFL transfer. At the time I was in NC, I was active military, and a GA resident. It was simpler for me to just drive to GA and buy over there. (As opposed to taking a copy of orders to base provost; getting required forms from provost to show I was assigned to Bragg; take forms to sheriff's dept, get permit... especially since I was driving home to see the woman and the dog every few weeks, anyway.)

ScotchMan · September 29, 2011, 06:02 PM

Fayetteville, NC is a great place to find deals in pawn shops on just about anything a young man could fancy

MLeake · September 29, 2011, 06:10 PM

Yes, but I like the staff at Guns Plus, by the Manchester gate. Good range, too.

Also recommend Range One.

johnbt · September 29, 2011, 06:27 PM

"I don't think anyone is trying to do that."

Sure they are. Some of them. The thread title says "as a gift."

John

September 28, 2011, 05:04 PM	#1
.40 to go Junior Member Join Date: September 28, 2011 Posts: 4	Transfer of ownership of pistol My grandfather has a pistol he wants to give me. He is from MI and I am from NC. I was told I had to get a purchase permit but i was also told i had to get it transferred to my name by someone who could do it and pay $25. Is this true legally to own it.

September 28, 2011, 08:41 PM	#6
Don H Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2000 Location: SLC,Utah Posts: 2,704	By the way, .40 to go, in your case a FFL would most likely be a gun shop or gun dealer. FFL means Federal Firearms Licensee. Welcome to TFL! __________________ Don http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/forum/

September 29, 2011, 01:26 PM	#9
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	Actually I think he may need to go to a gun shop in MI and pay them to transfer the gun to a gun shop in NC. Then the local gun shop will transfer the gun to you. Visit a local shop and discuss this with them and see if they can assist. I may be mistaken, so maybe someone else will chime in. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

September 29, 2011, 01:31 PM	#10
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	Correct me if I am wrong, but unless the gun is an antique (pre-1899), because the transfer is between states, it must go through a licensed dealer. What would have to happen is your grandfather would either have to ship the gun to a federally licensed dealer in your state and then you would have to pick the gun up from this dealer, or if he happens to come for a visit, he can go with you to the licensed dealer. In either case, what you do then is fill out the paperwork and pass a background check as if you were actually buying a gun (there is almost always a fee for this), and then the gun is all yours. __________________ "My momma, she done told me, there's heart and then there's hate If one of 'em's inside of you, the other one, it aint."

September 29, 2011, 04:39 PM	#16
Chaz88 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Posts: 1,243	How about you move in with your grandfather long enough to establish residency then he can give you the gun and then you can move with it. What a pain, I have never heard of anyone going through all that to gift a gun to a relative. Guess I learned more than one new thing today. __________________ Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.

September 28, 2011, 06:34 PM	#2
.40 to go Junior Member Join Date: September 28, 2011 Posts: 4	anyone?

September 28, 2011, 06:37 PM	#3
Justice06RR Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Central FL Posts: 1,360	Unfortunately since you live in different states, I believe you have to go through an FFL. If you lived in the same state, it would not be an issue and he can just hand you the firearm with no legalities involved. check with a local gun shop to be certain, but as far as I know, transfers involving 2 different states needs a FFL

September 28, 2011, 07:01 PM	#4
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	As far as NC regs go, I can't help; but as far as transferring the gun - you need to find an FFL in your state to do the transfer - most charge somewhere in the $25 area. You will need to make sure that the FFL will accept the shipment from a non-FFL (your father). If he won't then your father will need to use a FFL on his end as well to ship it. This can actually be cheaper since a non-FFL can only ship via the UPS/Fedex route and that is very expensive, whereas a FFL can use USPS flat rate box

September 28, 2011, 07:06 PM	#5
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	The easiest thing for the OP to do is find a local FFL who will do the transfer. The OP's father, or an FFL on his behalf, can then simply send the gun to the OP's transfer FFL who will transfer the gun. It would be legal for the OP's father to send the gun directly to the transfer FFL, but some FFLs will not, as a matter of business practice, accept a gun for transfer directly from an individual. The transfer FFL will transfer the gun to the OP with all normal formalities, i. e., completion of a 4473 and satisfaction of any state law requirements in the OP's State or residence. [1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. [2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you. [3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer is in compliance with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complied with the law of the transferee's State of residence. [4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies. [5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives. [6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

September 29, 2011, 12:27 PM	#8
Furminator Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2009 Location: milwaukee Posts: 128	If there are no legal reasons barring either of you from owning a handgun and he obeys the laws for transporting a handgun through the states he will be driving, that should pretty much be it.

September 29, 2011, 01:41 PM	#11
Furminator Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2009 Location: milwaukee Posts: 128	I was under the impression that if it was a gift exchanged between two legally eligible people, no more paper work was required. I mean, I've given and been given guns in the past and I never filled out any paper work or even heard it was required.

September 29, 2011, 01:45 PM	#12
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Furminator, not to pick on you, because I was under the same mistaken impression for years.... but Federal law requires a handgun be transferred via an FFL, for interstate transfers. The FFL must be in the receiving state. .40 to go, I'd recommend you go to gunbroker.com, and look at their "Find an FFL" page. Enter your zip code, and pull up the list of local FFLs. Call them, find out what their transfer fees are, and if they will accept the gun directly from your grandfather. Some FFLs will only accept an out-of-state gun from an FFL in the originating state. Once you've found the FFL you want to deal with, he will tell you how to proceed.

September 29, 2011, 04:31 PM	#15
dajowi Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Posts: 1,196	Perhaps what you should do is "borrow" the hand gun. No legal tit tat.

September 29, 2011, 05:23 PM	#17
dickttx Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 500	As dajowi said, I believe you can loan anyone, who can legally own one, a handgun. Did some research on this a while back in relation to my grandson who lives 150 miles from me but in OK rather than TX. Found out that since he is not 21, he couldn't legally own one. __________________ Education teaches you the rules, experience teaches you the exceptions (Plagiarized from Claude Clay)

September 29, 2011, 05:40 PM	#18
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	There are restrictions on interstate loans of handguns as well. Not sure why people are so eager to avoid $50 in transfer fees and a 4473 form, but in theory at least we aren't supposed to recommend circumventing or breaking the law on TFL. Just realize that's what some of you folks are, in fact, recommending.

September 29, 2011, 05:42 PM	#19
dickttx Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 500	I don't think anyone is trying to do that. I think we are trying to determine what the law is. There is considerable difference. __________________ Education teaches you the rules, experience teaches you the exceptions (Plagiarized from Claude Clay)

September 29, 2011, 05:48 PM	#20
ScotchMan Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Posts: 1,368	Varies by state. In this fine state, all your guns must be printed on your permit, so you would have to go through this process. It is also true all interstate transfers must go through FFLs. On top of that, I think North Carolina may require something; I know they do issue permits, so based on that I don't think there's any way it could be legal to not involve FFLs and probably the state. __________________ Everyday Loadout NRA Instructor NRA Member

September 29, 2011, 05:52 PM	#21
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	There's a sporting purposes requirement for interstate loans, which the ATF (AFAIK) has not defined very clearly. From what I understand, keeping the gun in the nightstand, and occasionally taking it to the range, don't qualify. It costs me $50 to have my LGS ship a handgun via USPS to an FFL anywhere in the US. (Note: That is LESS than it would cost me to drive to the FedEx or UPS hubs in my area, and ship the gun overnight on my own.) It costs me $30 to have my LGS do a receiving transfer to me, from some other state. What is the huge hairy deal? (Aside from the tinfoil-hatters who fear the 4473 forms....)

September 29, 2011, 05:54 PM	#22
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	ScotchMan, NC requires purchase permits ($5 at your friendly local sheriff) to buy a gun from an FFL. I don't believe said permits are required for private in-state sales; I am not sure if they are required for interstate FFL transfer. At the time I was in NC, I was active military, and a GA resident. It was simpler for me to just drive to GA and buy over there. (As opposed to taking a copy of orders to base provost; getting required forms from provost to show I was assigned to Bragg; take forms to sheriff's dept, get permit... especially since I was driving home to see the woman and the dog every few weeks, anyway.)

September 29, 2011, 06:02 PM	#23
ScotchMan Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Posts: 1,368	Fayetteville, NC is a great place to find deals in pawn shops on just about anything a young man could fancy __________________ Everyday Loadout NRA Instructor NRA Member

September 29, 2011, 06:10 PM	#24
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Yes, but I like the staff at Guns Plus, by the Manchester gate. Good range, too. Also recommend Range One.

September 29, 2011, 06:27 PM	#25
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	"I don't think anyone is trying to do that." Sure they are. Some of them. The thread title says "as a gift." John

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