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Old February 22, 2014, 10:53 PM   #1
reynolds357
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Winchester supreme .308 match

Does anyone know what powder Winchester used to load their Supreme .308 Win, 168 Sierra match king, match ammo? I had a couple of boxes of this stuff sitting around that is probably 10 to 12 years old. I took it out to sight in a new scope. That particular rifle loves the stuff. It literally outshoots my 6ppc bench gun at 100 yards. 1 ragged hole if I do my part. Nothing else has ever turned in less than 1/2 MOA in this rifle. I know they did not use an exact off the shelf powder, but was wondering if anyone had a clue what the powder they used is closest to. I have used all kinds of loads with the 168 match king and nothing is even close.
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Old February 22, 2014, 11:02 PM   #2
Jimro
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Pull one round apart, see if it is ball powder or stick powder.

If it is ball, probably Win748. If it is stick, the field of possible choices gets much bigger.

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Old February 23, 2014, 07:37 AM   #3
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Could be Winchester 780 Supreme...
Buut thats just a guess... I pulled some winchester grey box 100 grain .243's once and the powder looked identical to Winchester Supreme 780, and thats what I used to load some test rounds and performance was better in my test loads.
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Old February 23, 2014, 08:36 AM   #4
steve4102
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Some say that Supreme 780 is the same powder Win uses in their Supreme Ammunition, but I can't imagine that is what they use in their 308 Ammo. 780 burns slower than the 4831's, way to slow for the 308.
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Old February 23, 2014, 10:15 PM   #5
reynolds357
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I have a couple left that I was planning on pulling down to try to help identify the powder. Velocity and charge weight will help i.d. the powder. I think 780 is a bit slow for the 168. These cartridges are probably older than Supreme 780.
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Old February 23, 2014, 10:40 PM   #6
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Reynolds357,

Win748 and Win760 are both ball powders that have been known to produce tight groups with the 168gr BTHP. If it is a ball powder the charge weight "may" help you narrow it down to the most likely candidate, but no guarantees as commercial ammo plants don't normally buy cannister grade powder.

If it is a stick powder, there are even more likely candidates so I'd recommend just using whatever medium rifle powder you have on hand and developing a load with that. Generally it is not too hard to get a 168gr BTHP to shoot tight from a 308

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Old February 23, 2014, 10:53 PM   #7
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Jim, I have some good loads for this rifle. This particular load is an exceptional load. I wish I had enough of the cartridges to see if some of my other rifles like this load as well, or if it is just a fluke match for this particular rifle. The ammo does not really have a reputation for being very accurate.
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Old February 24, 2014, 07:06 AM   #8
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reynolds357,

Don't discount the state of your brass in reloading.

I can't prove it, but I have talked to other shooters who have come the the same conclusion, that soft virgin brass will shoot tighter than once fired brass if the brass isn't particularly match sorted.

Winchester brass has always "opened up" on me about a quarter minute on the first reload over the first firing, even with full length sizing and the same powder charge in 308.

I do hope you find an exceptional load for your rifle, it is always nice to punch out cloverleafs.

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Old February 24, 2014, 02:19 PM   #9
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I use Norma and Lapua brass for the ammo that counts.
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Old February 24, 2014, 02:23 PM   #10
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I have read on several firearms forums that the powder in commercial ammunition rarely if ever is exactly what is found in the canister powder sold for reloading. Instead, the ammunition manufacturers blends lots of powder to get the performance level desired for that particular load. So what they use in these match cartridges is unlikely to matter, unless perhaps the burn rate of the powder could be determined, and that matched to an existing canister powder.
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