strange question... maybe no simple answer ???

Magnum Wheel Man · January 22, 2009, 12:18 PM

I currenly store my powder how my father in law did ( we moved to the farm, & my loading area now, is his old loading area, so most things are still the same as he used )

in an old refridgerator, with a simple padlock hasp on the door...

... I want to remove that old "fridge" & store my powder in a steel truck box, mounted to one of the walls...

yep... I know the powder in the steel box issue...

but... how many holes ( in reality ) would a guy need to drill in the box, to relieve enough pressure to safely store powder in a steel box ???

... in talking with one of my reloading buddys, we were thinking mayb a 1/2" hole drilled into each of the bottom corners... ( for his application... one of the smaller pisto stack on boxes )... mine will be 48" X 10" X 18" & I could drill holes on the back side, as there will be treated 2bys between the concrete wall & the steel box...

your guys thoughts as to how much hole to bleed off pressure for safety purposes for storage ???

a good size hole in each bottom corner ???
1%, 5%, 10%, 25% of the surface area of the box ???

or ???

jaguarxk120 · January 22, 2009, 01:05 PM

If you can just replace the back wall of the box with HD woven wire mesh. Or the bottom with the mesh. No one needs to know it's there and it give you security and the openness needed in case the venting is needed.

Wuchak · January 22, 2009, 01:41 PM

By storing the gunpowder in a steel box you are doing something you know is absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt unsafe. Essentially you are making a giant pipe bomb and in the event of a fire you are putting the lives of the firemen and others in serious jeopardy. If this happens you will (and rightfully should) face criminal charges. Your question is how to make it less of a bomb?

Why don't you and your buddy just follow the method of storage prescribed by the manufacturer?

Try a plastic truck box instead of metal.

The number and size of the holes you are talking about on your buddy's doesn't sound like anywhere near enough.

If you are serious about being so irresponsible then you should go directly to Hodgdon or another manufacturer and get their advice.

ETA. Imagine if someone came on and said they were absolutely dead set on shooting .44 magnum rounds of an old .45 revolver. They knew it was wrong and dangerous but they were going to do it and wanted to know the best way. We'd all be all over them. This question of powder in steel is no different.

Doby45 · January 22, 2009, 01:52 PM

How about a metal cage made of the expanded metal. Structurally secure and safe..

GE-Minigun · January 22, 2009, 02:16 PM

The rate of expansion of burning powder is of no concern if it’s in a steel truck box. I can’t think of any manufacture that has an airtight box, besides the gasket is going to melt or be blown before the powder will burn. After all escaping air, what it would be in this case, seeks the path of least resistance just like water.

wncchester · January 22, 2009, 06:25 PM

The issue is less of what's the box made of than how easily the sides or top will blow out to vent pressure. Use a light locking mechanism that will blow off fairly easily and all will be well. A bolt stud in both the top and side and held together with a single turn of solid #12 electriic wire would be fine.

mini14.223 · January 22, 2009, 06:49 PM

i will have to say i dont see how much differnt the fridge would be compared to the truck box if it came down to an explosion....has anyone thought of that

BradF · January 22, 2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

i will have to say i dont see how much differnt the fridge would be compared to the truck box if it came down to an explosion....has anyone thought of that

When I was in school I worked for a contractor that did insurance jobs. We rebuilt two houses that had burned. The contents of the refrigerators in both houses were completely intact. I'm not sure powder in an old refrigerator will get hot enough to burn. I would not be my life on that by testing it out though.

oldscot3 · January 22, 2009, 09:27 PM

The retailers I buy from, store their powders in a wooden cabinet. Are there static issues to consider here?

**Unclenick** · January 22, 2009, 09:54 PM

Several issues need consideration. Commercial explosion proof cabinets for solvents are made of steel, but can be popped open somewhere by relatively low pressure. I believe you can buy explosion-proof lids that let go under light pressure, but without being east to open from the inside. you might want to look up a source?

A fireproof box can be made, as in a gun safe. I am unaware of any pressure vents safes, however, but I don't believe quantities of powder are meant to be stored in them. I did hear of a man who kept a warning sign on his gun safe for burglars with cutting torches that read something like "3 pounds of black powder stored inside. If I can't have them, neither can you."

The refrigerator is insulated, but a problem with that is that thermal penetration has a phase lag, so while it takes some hours to cool the contents during the night, they will likewise take time to warm back up in the day. As a result, you have some risk, when you open powder stored in an insulated container, of it being cooler than the outside and tending to pick up condensation.

The expanded metal cage is a good idea if you need to keep curious little hands away from the contents. If dryness is your concern , you can get some of those plastic ammo can-shaped boxes that have lid seals. Action Products makes them. Put the powder in a Ziplock bag inside the plastic box. Put the plastic boxes in the cage.

Dr. Strangelove · January 23, 2009, 02:40 PM

Why do you feel the need for such "secure" storage? I leave mine on the shelf above my reloading bench, it's much more convenient that way. We're talking smokeless powder here, not weapons-grade plutonium. Is it a legal requirement where you live? Otherwise, if your loading area has a door with a lock, that would be all I need.

January 22, 2009, 09:54 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Several issues need consideration. Commercial explosion proof cabinets for solvents are made of steel, but can be popped open somewhere by relatively low pressure. I believe you can buy explosion-proof lids that let go under light pressure, but without being east to open from the inside. you might want to look up a source? A fireproof box can be made, as in a gun safe. I am unaware of any pressure vents safes, however, but I don't believe quantities of powder are meant to be stored in them. I did hear of a man who kept a warning sign on his gun safe for burglars with cutting torches that read something like "3 pounds of black powder stored inside. If I can't have them, neither can you." The refrigerator is insulated, but a problem with that is that thermal penetration has a phase lag, so while it takes some hours to cool the contents during the night, they will likewise take time to warm back up in the day. As a result, you have some risk, when you open powder stored in an insulated container, of it being cooler than the outside and tending to pick up condensation. The expanded metal cage is a good idea if you need to keep curious little hands away from the contents. If dryness is your concern , you can get some of those plastic ammo can-shaped boxes that have lid seals. Action Products makes them. Put the powder in a Ziplock bag inside the plastic box. Put the plastic boxes in the cage. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 23, 2009, 02:40 PM	#11
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	A shelf works nicely for storage... Why do you feel the need for such "secure" storage? I leave mine on the shelf above my reloading bench, it's much more convenient that way. We're talking smokeless powder here, not weapons-grade plutonium. Is it a legal requirement where you live? Otherwise, if your loading area has a door with a lock, that would be all I need.

January 22, 2009, 12:18 PM	#1
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	strange question... maybe no simple answer ??? I currenly store my powder how my father in law did ( we moved to the farm, & my loading area now, is his old loading area, so most things are still the same as he used ) in an old refridgerator, with a simple padlock hasp on the door... ... I want to remove that old "fridge" & store my powder in a steel truck box, mounted to one of the walls... yep... I know the powder in the steel box issue... but... how many holes ( in reality ) would a guy need to drill in the box, to relieve enough pressure to safely store powder in a steel box ??? ... in talking with one of my reloading buddys, we were thinking mayb a 1/2" hole drilled into each of the bottom corners... ( for his application... one of the smaller pisto stack on boxes )... mine will be 48" X 10" X 18" & I could drill holes on the back side, as there will be treated 2bys between the concrete wall & the steel box... your guys thoughts as to how much hole to bleed off pressure for safety purposes for storage ??? a good size hole in each bottom corner ??? 1%, 5%, 10%, 25% of the surface area of the box ??? or ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 22, 2009, 01:05 PM	#2
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	If you can just replace the back wall of the box with HD woven wire mesh. Or the bottom with the mesh. No one needs to know it's there and it give you security and the openness needed in case the venting is needed.

January 22, 2009, 01:41 PM	#3
Wuchak Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2007 Location: Shawnee, KS Posts: 1,093	By storing the gunpowder in a steel box you are doing something you know is absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt unsafe. Essentially you are making a giant pipe bomb and in the event of a fire you are putting the lives of the firemen and others in serious jeopardy. If this happens you will (and rightfully should) face criminal charges. Your question is how to make it less of a bomb? Why don't you and your buddy just follow the method of storage prescribed by the manufacturer? Try a plastic truck box instead of metal. The number and size of the holes you are talking about on your buddy's doesn't sound like anywhere near enough. If you are serious about being so irresponsible then you should go directly to Hodgdon or another manufacturer and get their advice. ETA. Imagine if someone came on and said they were absolutely dead set on shooting .44 magnum rounds of an old .45 revolver. They knew it was wrong and dangerous but they were going to do it and wanted to know the best way. We'd all be all over them. This question of powder in steel is no different.

January 22, 2009, 01:52 PM	#4
Doby45 Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Location: Powder Springs, GA Posts: 213	How about a metal cage made of the expanded metal. Structurally secure and safe..

January 22, 2009, 02:16 PM	#5
GE-Minigun Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Posts: 240	The rate of expansion of burning powder is of no concern if it’s in a steel truck box. I can’t think of any manufacture that has an airtight box, besides the gasket is going to melt or be blown before the powder will burn. After all escaping air, what it would be in this case, seeks the path of least resistance just like water.

January 22, 2009, 06:25 PM	#6
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	The issue is less of what's the box made of than how easily the sides or top will blow out to vent pressure. Use a light locking mechanism that will blow off fairly easily and all will be well. A bolt stud in both the top and side and held together with a single turn of solid #12 electriic wire would be fine.

January 22, 2009, 06:49 PM	#7
mini14.223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: missouri Posts: 99	i will have to say i dont see how much differnt the fridge would be compared to the truck box if it came down to an explosion....has anyone thought of that

January 22, 2009, 09:27 PM	#9
oldscot3 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: texas Posts: 997	The retailers I buy from, store their powders in a wooden cabinet. Are there static issues to consider here?