Knife for CCW???????

Ben Shepherd · October 10, 2002, 02:17 PM

I know most people on this board carry a knife of some sort as a backup, or where guns just aren't practical.

I've been carrying my gerber gator for this purpose. It's just an all-around knife, hunting, fishing, etc.

I want to get a dedicated knife for ccw, quality being far more important than cost, but I'm confused: Everyone lists this or that type of steel for the blade. Is there someone on this board that can explain what the different types and numbers mean???

I just don't want to pay top dollar for a piece of junk.

Thanks in advance.

imadork · October 10, 2002, 11:22 PM

http://www.bladeforums.com/features/faqsteel.shtml

Snowdog · October 11, 2002, 09:00 AM

This is an excellent production knife with a lifetime warranty since it's built to last. Free factory sharpenings if you'll pay the shipping ( However, I doubt anyone does this).

I've had my Stryker since they first came out around 3 or 4 years ago... carry and use it daily and still shows no wear other than the "Black-T" finish". If you go this route, opt for the bead-blasted plain blade.

To accompany the photo below, copied from a Benchmade dealer:

Quote:

The Stryker™ a high-end tactical knife has a Tanto style blade of ATS-34 stainless steel at 59-61 RC. The black G-10 handle scales support double titanium liners. Other features include an ambidextrous thumb disk for easy one hand opening and a modified locking liner. Made in the USA.

Hard Ball · October 11, 2002, 09:18 AM

For your intended use it is hard to beat an Emerson Commander. I have carried one for years with perfect satisfaction. My wife also loves hers.

Betty · October 11, 2002, 09:27 AM

First, find out what the laws are in your state. In TN, you can carry a knife with a blade up to 4", as long as it's not an auto or gravity knife (unless you're LEO or military).

I like a knife that is good for utility as well as as defense, though I abhor the thought of actually using one for defense. It's got to be extremely bloody and messy. Yeech.

I recommend something that can be deployed quickly, like a small fixed blade knife, a thumb-hole or thumb-stud opening knife (the BM Stryker has a thumb disc), and has a sheath or belt clip so you're not fumbling around at the bottom of your pocket. I also choose a knife that I can grip well and won't have my hands slide over the blade during a deep thrust.

I have carried or carry currently:

FOLDER WITH THUMB HOLES/STUDS/DISCS
- BM AFCK (personal favorite; it has a big thumb hole)
- BM Stryker (thumb disc)
- BM Mini Dark Star (stud)
- Masters of Defense (I know, silly name, but great knives!) Duane Dieter Mk. II (ambidextrous thumb studs)
- MOD Ladyhawk (talon shaped blade, ambi studs)
- Try some Spyderco knives - they are of decent quality, price, and have the big thumb hole
- Also look at the Emerson knives with the "Wave" system - it allows you to open the knife quickly from the pocket.

FIXED BLADE/NECK KNIVES
- MOD Razorback
- TOPS UTE
- Microtech Medallion
- BM Nimravus Cub

I prefer black coated blades over bead blasted. Bead blasted blades soak up sweat and create a nice little breeding ground for rust if you're not observant. Black-coated blades will scuff and not look so pretty after hard use.

Surf through
One Stop Knife Shop to see all the knives.

ronin308 · October 11, 2002, 09:37 AM

I would get just a regular old folder like a Benchmade, Spyderco, CRKT, etc. right now. Then I would call Kevin "Mad Dog" McClung and have him make you a fixed blade. The wait on his knives is fairly long right now but they're probably the best knives out there.

http://www.mdenterprise.com

fignozzle · October 11, 2002, 09:43 AM

Ben,

Either of the knives Hardball and Snowdog (By-Tor says hi) recommend are GREAT knives, and you'll pay a premium for them.
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING is better than an Emerson.

IF you want a little more "value-priced" offering, I'd recommend something from CRKT. Columbia River knives are VERY reasonably priced for the quality you get.
Here are some examples:
http://www.crkt.com/ryansevn.html

http://www.crkt.com/prowler.html

http://www.crkt.com/crawkasp.html

Just my 2 rubles.

Snowdog · October 11, 2002, 12:33 PM

Hmm, I thought I vanquished the dreaded By-tor and was victorious... that's what Geddy said anyway.
Oh well, I suppose you must never assume.

fignozzle · October 11, 2002, 12:43 PM

What kind of knives were available to Snowdog in the Tobes of Hades? Bone, flint?
Gary Weinrib and Al Zivojinovich might know...

A little OT, so we might oughta take it to PM/email, but there is something about their music (post-Rutsey, of course) that evokes mental imagery for me that no other artist does....

[email protected]

scotjute · October 11, 2002, 01:31 PM

The biggest point is to always have a knife with you at the time.
Then begin to look at how to improve what you carry.

Just briefly on the more commonly found steels:
1095 is a plain carbon steel that has excellent strength, very good hardness/edge retention. It will rust. It is easy to sharpen.
420 is a stainless steel that has good strength but poor hardness and edge retention. This is normally considered "junk stainless".
440A is the standard stainless steel used in knives. It has good strength, hardness, edge retention. It can be difficult to sharpen.
440C is found in better grade of knives. Has good strength, excellent hardness/edge retention. Difficult to sharpen.
There are also several other "tool steels" that make even better knife blades than these mentioned. The knives they will be found are usually higher-priced than the more common steels listed above. Also improper quenching/heat treatments can ruin an otherwise fine steel. Typically, knives from well known companies (American, European, Japan, etc.) for example will use properly heat-treated steels, whereas no-name knives may or may not be properly heat-treated steels.
Read the article in bladeforums. It should go in more in-depth.
Hope that helps.

dairycreek · October 11, 2002, 02:33 PM

It is a large knife in stainless steel. Has a clip on it so that carrying it in the waistband of the pants is both concealable and handy. FWIW.

Cowdogpete · October 11, 2002, 03:30 PM

Take a look at the Smith & Wesson SWAT knife. Its one of the better values out there. You can buy a better knife (Cold Steel, Benchmade, etc) but they will cost considerable more.

I carry a Millinium Run S.W.A.T every day. It is a good size, good quality, available either serrated or smooth, easy opening...and costs about $35.00.

Check it out.

Blackhawk · October 11, 2002, 05:04 PM

Don't forget about the guy who brought a knife to a gun fight.

If you pull a knife to defend yourself, are you going to be viewed as righteous in your locale to an interloping LEO or handgun licensee?

Isn't the idea sort of like the rock-scissors-paper game? About the only BG weapon a knife trumps is fists. It equals another knife with equal knife fighting skills, and it's a provocation against a BG (or even a GG!) with a gun or club.

If you haven't guessed, any worthwhile knife is illegal where I spend most of my time....

Sodbuster · October 11, 2002, 10:54 PM

Bob Dozier makes excellent knives at a fair price. D2 steel. I carry his Arkansas Toothpick found at http://www.dozierknives.com/

Check your state laws for blade length, fixed-blade knives allowed, auto knives allowed, concealed carry, etc.

Blackhawk has good advice. If you can legally carry a knife, do so, but watch what you do with it.

Ben Shepherd · October 12, 2002, 08:36 AM

Thanks for the info guys. Looks like the knife I have was an excellent bargain from the info in the blade forum article.

hso · October 13, 2002, 10:06 PM

Any knife you carry for defensive purposes should do as long as you don't, I repeat do not, use it for your daily utility knife.

To work the knife must be sharp. To be sharp it must not have been used for anything since it was last sharpened. It must also be on you. You must know how to use it, at least minimally. The list goes on and on.

bladeforums.com has extensive discussions of what makes a good defensive knife and how to use it. Spend some time over there and remember that any reasonably well made folder/fixed blade will work as long as it's sharp, readily deployed, and on you.

Mike

Gunter · October 14, 2002, 04:25 PM

I have found it very practical to carry a fixed blade hilt down SOB. It is lightning fast to deploy and accessible to either hand. And as its intended use is for close range confrontation, coming out in a reverse grip is not really a disadvantage. The BG wont laugh if you "miss" your punch.

Carry permits are quite hard to get here in Austria, so knife and OC are the only options.

October 10, 2002, 02:17 PM	#1
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	Knife for CCW??????? I know most people on this board carry a knife of some sort as a backup, or where guns just aren't practical. I've been carrying my gerber gator for this purpose. It's just an all-around knife, hunting, fishing, etc. I want to get a dedicated knife for ccw, quality being far more important than cost, but I'm confused: Everyone lists this or that type of steel for the blade. Is there someone on this board that can explain what the different types and numbers mean??? I just don't want to pay top dollar for a piece of junk. Thanks in advance. __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

October 11, 2002, 09:18 AM	#4
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	For your intended use it is hard to beat an Emerson Commander. I have carried one for years with perfect satisfaction. My wife also loves hers. __________________ "I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemeis domestic or foreign WHOMSOEVER."

October 11, 2002, 09:37 AM	#6
ronin308 Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Posts: 1,977	I would get just a regular old folder like a Benchmade, Spyderco, CRKT, etc. right now. Then I would call Kevin "Mad Dog" McClung and have him make you a fixed blade. The wait on his knives is fairly long right now but they're probably the best knives out there. http://www.mdenterprise.com __________________ If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert in five years there’d be a shortage of sand. -Milton Friedman

October 11, 2002, 09:43 AM	#7
fignozzle Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2002 Location: under the radar, near the Sunsphere Posts: 177	Ben, Either of the knives Hardball and Snowdog (By-Tor says hi) recommend are GREAT knives, and you'll pay a premium for them. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING is better than an Emerson. IF you want a little more "value-priced" offering, I'd recommend something from CRKT. Columbia River knives are VERY reasonably priced for the quality you get. Here are some examples: http://www.crkt.com/ryansevn.html http://www.crkt.com/prowler.html http://www.crkt.com/crawkasp.html Just my 2 rubles. __________________ aka Felonious Monk on THR. Love People. Use Things. Do not confuse the two. Grey Tribesman

October 11, 2002, 12:33 PM	#8
Snowdog Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2001 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 1,074	Hmm, I thought I vanquished the dreaded By-tor and was victorious... that's what Geddy said anyway. Oh well, I suppose you must never assume. __________________ "What We Do In Life, Echoes In Eternity" -Gladiator- ************************* Brevity Is The Soul of Wit. -Shakespeare-

October 10, 2002, 11:22 PM	#2
imadork Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2002 Location: Behind Enemy Lines (Cali) Posts: 116	http://www.bladeforums.com/features/faqsteel.shtml

October 11, 2002, 09:27 AM	#5
Betty Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2000 Location: southern U.S. Posts: 1,807	First, find out what the laws are in your state. In TN, you can carry a knife with a blade up to 4", as long as it's not an auto or gravity knife (unless you're LEO or military). I like a knife that is good for utility as well as as defense, though I abhor the thought of actually using one for defense. It's got to be extremely bloody and messy. Yeech. I recommend something that can be deployed quickly, like a small fixed blade knife, a thumb-hole or thumb-stud opening knife (the BM Stryker has a thumb disc), and has a sheath or belt clip so you're not fumbling around at the bottom of your pocket. I also choose a knife that I can grip well and won't have my hands slide over the blade during a deep thrust. I have carried or carry currently: FOLDER WITH THUMB HOLES/STUDS/DISCS - BM AFCK (personal favorite; it has a big thumb hole) - BM Stryker (thumb disc) - BM Mini Dark Star (stud) - Masters of Defense (I know, silly name, but great knives!) Duane Dieter Mk. II (ambidextrous thumb studs) - MOD Ladyhawk (talon shaped blade, ambi studs) - Try some Spyderco knives - they are of decent quality, price, and have the big thumb hole - Also look at the Emerson knives with the "Wave" system - it allows you to open the knife quickly from the pocket. FIXED BLADE/NECK KNIVES - MOD Razorback - TOPS UTE - Microtech Medallion - BM Nimravus Cub I prefer black coated blades over bead blasted. Bead blasted blades soak up sweat and create a nice little breeding ground for rust if you're not observant. Black-coated blades will scuff and not look so pretty after hard use. Surf through One Stop Knife Shop to see all the knives.

October 11, 2002, 12:43 PM	#9
fignozzle Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2002 Location: under the radar, near the Sunsphere Posts: 177	What kind of knives were available to Snowdog in the Tobes of Hades? Bone, flint? Gary Weinrib and Al Zivojinovich might know... A little OT, so we might oughta take it to PM/email, but there is something about their music (post-Rutsey, of course) that evokes mental imagery for me that no other artist does.... [email protected] __________________ aka Felonious Monk on THR. Love People. Use Things. Do not confuse the two. Grey Tribesman

October 11, 2002, 01:31 PM	#10
scotjute Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Location: texas Posts: 260	The biggest point is to always have a knife with you at the time. Then begin to look at how to improve what you carry. Just briefly on the more commonly found steels: 1095 is a plain carbon steel that has excellent strength, very good hardness/edge retention. It will rust. It is easy to sharpen. 420 is a stainless steel that has good strength but poor hardness and edge retention. This is normally considered "junk stainless". 440A is the standard stainless steel used in knives. It has good strength, hardness, edge retention. It can be difficult to sharpen. 440C is found in better grade of knives. Has good strength, excellent hardness/edge retention. Difficult to sharpen. There are also several other "tool steels" that make even better knife blades than these mentioned. The knives they will be found are usually higher-priced than the more common steels listed above. Also improper quenching/heat treatments can ruin an otherwise fine steel. Typically, knives from well known companies (American, European, Japan, etc.) for example will use properly heat-treated steels, whereas no-name knives may or may not be properly heat-treated steels. Read the article in bladeforums. It should go in more in-depth. Hope that helps.

October 11, 2002, 02:33 PM	#11
dairycreek Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: North Plains, Oregon, USA Posts: 1,867	I carry a Spyderco Policeman. It is a large knife in stainless steel. Has a clip on it so that carrying it in the waistband of the pants is both concealable and handy. FWIW.

October 11, 2002, 03:30 PM	#12
Cowdogpete Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2002 Location: Bosque County, TX Posts: 265	Take a look at the Smith & Wesson SWAT knife. Its one of the better values out there. You can buy a better knife (Cold Steel, Benchmade, etc) but they will cost considerable more. I carry a Millinium Run S.W.A.T every day. It is a good size, good quality, available either serrated or smooth, easy opening...and costs about $35.00. Check it out. __________________ Smoke on THR I love the smell of cordite in the morning.

October 11, 2002, 05:04 PM	#13
Blackhawk Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2001 Posts: 5,040	Don't forget about the guy who brought a knife to a gun fight. If you pull a knife to defend yourself, are you going to be viewed as righteous in your locale to an interloping LEO or handgun licensee? Isn't the idea sort of like the rock-scissors-paper game? About the only BG weapon a knife trumps is fists. It equals another knife with equal knife fighting skills, and it's a provocation against a BG (or even a GG!) with a gun or club. If you haven't guessed, any worthwhile knife is illegal where I spend most of my time....

October 11, 2002, 10:54 PM	#14
Sodbuster Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 1999 Location: Wyo-Tana Posts: 1,298	Bob Dozier makes excellent knives at a fair price. D2 steel. I carry his Arkansas Toothpick found at http://www.dozierknives.com/ Check your state laws for blade length, fixed-blade knives allowed, auto knives allowed, concealed carry, etc. Blackhawk has good advice. If you can legally carry a knife, do so, but watch what you do with it. __________________ Remember, many times what we view as a curse in the present turns out to be a blessing in the future. Don't worry about it a lot. Things have a way of working out. Trust me on this one. - - Uncle Bill Martino

October 12, 2002, 08:36 AM	#15
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	Thanks for the info guys. Looks like the knife I have was an excellent bargain from the info in the blade forum article. __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

October 13, 2002, 10:06 PM	#16
hso Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2002 Location: Appalachia Posts: 170	Any knife you carry for defensive purposes should do as long as you don't, I repeat do not, use it for your daily utility knife. To work the knife must be sharp. To be sharp it must not have been used for anything since it was last sharpened. It must also be on you. You must know how to use it, at least minimally. The list goes on and on. bladeforums.com has extensive discussions of what makes a good defensive knife and how to use it. Spend some time over there and remember that any reasonably well made folder/fixed blade will work as long as it's sharp, readily deployed, and on you. Mike __________________ TANSTAAFL

October 14, 2002, 04:25 PM	#17
Gunter Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 279	I have found it very practical to carry a fixed blade hilt down SOB. It is lightning fast to deploy and accessible to either hand. And as its intended use is for close range confrontation, coming out in a reverse grip is not really a disadvantage. The BG wont laugh if you "miss" your punch. Carry permits are quite hard to get here in Austria, so knife and OC are the only options.