Questions about Win. M70 Westerner

SOC_chief_dave · February 13, 2015, 11:24 PM

Hello all, call me Dave! I am in possession of a Winchester Model 70 Westerner in 30-06, serial #G159xxxx (presumably a post 1964 model, based on the "G" prefix I believe?) I have a couple questions about the rifle in question...

1) I'm looking to update the rifle to a newer, more modern look. I have been looking at various aftermarket stocks, but have not found anything specific to an M70 westerner. Would a standard long-action M70 stock fit this model? Particularly the Hogue brand rifle stocks with full length OR pillar bedding.

2) What is the value of this rifle in average (50-75%) condition AS IS? The bluing is fading and there is a very shallow pit in the stock (can provide pics tomorrow)

Good to meet you gentlemen, look forward to hearing back from ya'll!

T. O'Heir · February 14, 2015, 02:22 PM

According to the Winchester Collector's site, a Westerner is a pre-64 made in 1936 by that S/N. Doing anything to it will drop its value.
Mind you, it's not of exceptional value anyway. Cabela's in Richfield, WI has one they want $600 for. Another on Gunbroker at $525. Condition is everything, of course. So changing the stock won't matter. Only one receiver length though.
Boyd's lists a semi-inletted(requires fitting and finishing) walnut stock for a featherweight barreled pre-64 M70 at $70.

Dixie Gunsmithing · February 14, 2015, 02:31 PM

Are you looking to fix the rifle up, or just get it a new stock?

Stock lumber is priced with different grades. A plain piece of Walnut, semi-finished, will run about $150.00. However, you can go on up, to A, AA, etc. That means the wood is cut from either a fork, or a root ball, and has the black marbling in it. The more figure, the more expensive. The stock, if done right, can increase the guns value, but you will pay for the wood to get it there.

Also, if you put a new stock on the rifle, and the metal isn't in good condition, then even with an expensive stock, it may not bring what it could. If one had it professionally reblued, and a new fitted stock, then it could bring more, but you'll have a bundle in it.

Take a look at Macon Gunstocks. They kind of took the place of EC Bishop, and are in the heart of gunstock country.

https://www.macongunstocks.com/

https://www.macongunstocks.com/Catalog_Pricing.html

jmr40 · February 14, 2015, 02:41 PM

The G prefix started in 1968, or so I understand. I believe the "Westerner" name has been resurrected more than once. If it was made between 1964 and 1994 it will be a push feed action. All pre-64's were Controlled round feed. Between 1994-2006 they made both PF and CRF rifles.

If you determine it is a pre-64, the stock is different.

Anything 1964-2006 will use the same stock as long as the action length is the same, bottom metal is the same and barrel contour is the same. Most used 2 piece bottom metal, with a few having blind magazines. It doesn't matter if it is CRF or PF, the stocks are interchangeable.

All guns made 2008-present use 1 piece bottom metal and almost all of the aftermarket stocks are made for the newer guns. The only real options for aftermarket stocks made for 2 piece metal are the high end versions made by McMillan and others.

It is possible to buy one of the newer stocks and put it on an older rifle. You'll need to either replace the bottom metal, around $100. Or buy an adapter, around $10-$20.

SOC_chief_dave · February 14, 2015, 03:06 PM

@Dixie Gunsmithing & T O'Heir; The metal itself is in very good shape. No scratches, no pits, rifling is pretty decent. I estimate, based on when my father gave it to me, that it's had roughly 200 rounds fired through it. The bluing is just faded. Not terrible. The existential debate I was having with myself was what was the better option - reblue all the metal and replace stock and keep it looking identical? Reblue all the metal and put a newer synthetic stock I like better on it? Or stash it away for my son and build myself a Remington 700 LR in .300 WinMag?

@Jjmr40; Can you elaborate a little? "Replace the bottom metal" ?? Also, could you show me where to get one of these adapters? I'm a little unfamiliar with working on older rifles like this. Just a note, mine is a blind magazine, its chambered in 30-06.

Dixie Gunsmithing · February 14, 2015, 04:02 PM

When you do look at stocks, and you are building up a gun to suit you, the shooter, then select what you want, which will work best for you. If its walnut, synthetic, or plywood, each has there own pluses.

If you're wanting to take it to a new look, as from the factory, then you have to look at a stock to match the original. The lowest price rifle long stocks run around $80.00 to $100.00, and can be what is known as utility grade. The ones running about $150.00 are a plain grade. On utility grade, you may receive one with knots, etc, that need to be filled before finishing. Also, both are semi-inletted, in that you have to make them fit, through sanding and chiseling, then finish them. You won't get them pre-checkered this way.

You can get generic pre-fitted stocks, but they will cost more. Also, you can send a stockmaker your gun, and have a perfect stock made, checkering and all.

Look around the gun parts houses. If they are an old company, like Numrich, they could have a new old stock for sale.

SOC_chief_dave · February 14, 2015, 11:09 PM

@jmr40; I had a brain fart. Bottom metal meaning the trigger guard, etc. Shouldn't be a problem

Thank you so much!

@DixieGunsmithing; Thanks for all the info, I think I'm going to go for a nice synthetic stock, black. Keepin' it simple!

This is probably more economical and practical than bothering to build the .300WM. In my area, most shots are under 300 yards and its mostly white tail. The feral hog get pretty big (400+ lbs.) I'm fairly confident that 168gr ballistic silvertip to the head will suffice.

Again, I appreciate all you guys had to share! I'll be around gentlemen.

**Note; was out with the family today. If you guys are interested in pics, I can take some in the morning

James K · February 14, 2015, 11:58 PM

If I recall correctly, and I might not, the original Westerner was a featherweight Model 70 with a 26" barrel, chambered for the .264 Win Mag and the .300 Win Mag. The idea was to have a rifle that could be carried easily but still have the barrel length to "reach out" when distance was a factor. It came on the market around 1963, and went away after the 1964 changes.

The name was later revived in the mid-1980's for a cheapened down Model 70 in limited chambering and a lighter stock with a smaller magazine. Those had the G prefix serial number. Again I could be wrong, but I don't think a standard Model 70 stock will fit those rifles. I definitely would check with the stock maker and be sure it will fit or can be returned if it won't.

Jim

SOC_chief_dave · February 15, 2015, 02:06 AM

@James K; Well thats a bummer. I was about to get excited

LOL

Also, one last thing. Is the barrel on my M70 westerner a featherweight or sporter?

James K · February 15, 2015, 07:36 PM

I am not sure, and don't want to mislead you so I can't answer that. But the stock maker should know the barrel contour or you can take a chance on it being standard contour and either fit it or return it if necessary.

Jim

SOC_chief_dave · February 16, 2015, 12:44 PM

@James K; Okay, thank you sir. I appreciate all you have shared! I got the Winchester/Browning parts dept #. I'm going to call them and see what they say and cross reference that with Hogue.

SOC_chief_dave · February 17, 2015, 03:26 PM

So I called the Winchester/Browning parts department and asked them if there are any modern stocks that will fit my rifle, and they told me no. Any stock I buy will likely have to be modified by a gunsmith to get it to fit. Damn

Drm50 · February 18, 2015, 06:08 PM

Don't know zip about post 64 M-70s. JamesK's post is right on button. Would
be careful about how much you spend on a post 64 unless it has sentimental
value. With money spent on nice stock, plus what you can sell rifle for would
buy you a better gun. With$600 stock $400 gun, that's $1000 to play with.

SOC_chief_dave · February 19, 2015, 11:59 AM

Hogue emailed me back and said that their 200 dollar overmolded stocks will fit as long as I replace the bottom metal.

Honestly, I'm going to just skip the difficulty of even wasting my time and just start scratch. I always wanted something longer than the 22" barrel of my M70. The Rem700 long range in 30-06 is looking tempting with a Leopold VX1 and a nice 6-9" adjustable bipod. :P

February 13, 2015, 11:24 PM	#1
SOC_chief_dave Member Join Date: February 13, 2015 Location: CLASSIFIED Posts: 17	Questions about Win. M70 Westerner Hello all, call me Dave! I am in possession of a Winchester Model 70 Westerner in 30-06, serial #G159xxxx (presumably a post 1964 model, based on the "G" prefix I believe?) I have a couple questions about the rifle in question... 1) I'm looking to update the rifle to a newer, more modern look. I have been looking at various aftermarket stocks, but have not found anything specific to an M70 westerner. Would a standard long-action M70 stock fit this model? Particularly the Hogue brand rifle stocks with full length OR pillar bedding. 2) What is the value of this rifle in average (50-75%) condition AS IS? The bluing is fading and there is a very shallow pit in the stock (can provide pics tomorrow) Good to meet you gentlemen, look forward to hearing back from ya'll! __________________ "Zip it hippie." Last edited by SOC_chief_dave; February 14, 2015 at 01:08 PM.

February 14, 2015, 02:22 PM	#2
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	According to the Winchester Collector's site, a Westerner is a pre-64 made in 1936 by that S/N. Doing anything to it will drop its value. Mind you, it's not of exceptional value anyway. Cabela's in Richfield, WI has one they want $600 for. Another on Gunbroker at $525. Condition is everything, of course. So changing the stock won't matter. Only one receiver length though. Boyd's lists a semi-inletted(requires fitting and finishing) walnut stock for a featherweight barreled pre-64 M70 at $70. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 14, 2015, 03:06 PM	#5
SOC_chief_dave Member Join Date: February 13, 2015 Location: CLASSIFIED Posts: 17	@Dixie Gunsmithing & T O'Heir; The metal itself is in very good shape. No scratches, no pits, rifling is pretty decent. I estimate, based on when my father gave it to me, that it's had roughly 200 rounds fired through it. The bluing is just faded. Not terrible. The existential debate I was having with myself was what was the better option - reblue all the metal and replace stock and keep it looking identical? Reblue all the metal and put a newer synthetic stock I like better on it? Or stash it away for my son and build myself a Remington 700 LR in .300 WinMag? @Jjmr40; Can you elaborate a little? "Replace the bottom metal" ?? Also, could you show me where to get one of these adapters? I'm a little unfamiliar with working on older rifles like this. Just a note, mine is a blind magazine, its chambered in 30-06. __________________ "Zip it hippie."

February 14, 2015, 11:09 PM	#7
SOC_chief_dave Member Join Date: February 13, 2015 Location: CLASSIFIED Posts: 17	@jmr40; I had a brain fart. Bottom metal meaning the trigger guard, etc. Shouldn't be a problem Thank you so much! @DixieGunsmithing; Thanks for all the info, I think I'm going to go for a nice synthetic stock, black. Keepin' it simple! This is probably more economical and practical than bothering to build the .300WM. In my area, most shots are under 300 yards and its mostly white tail. The feral hog get pretty big (400+ lbs.) I'm fairly confident that 168gr ballistic silvertip to the head will suffice. Again, I appreciate all you guys had to share! I'll be around gentlemen. **Note; was out with the family today. If you guys are interested in pics, I can take some in the morning __________________ "Zip it hippie."

February 15, 2015, 02:06 AM	#9
SOC_chief_dave Member Join Date: February 13, 2015 Location: CLASSIFIED Posts: 17	@James K; Well thats a bummer. I was about to get excited LOL Also, one last thing. Is the barrel on my M70 westerner a featherweight or sporter? __________________ "Zip it hippie."

February 14, 2015, 02:31 PM	#3
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Are you looking to fix the rifle up, or just get it a new stock? Stock lumber is priced with different grades. A plain piece of Walnut, semi-finished, will run about $150.00. However, you can go on up, to A, AA, etc. That means the wood is cut from either a fork, or a root ball, and has the black marbling in it. The more figure, the more expensive. The stock, if done right, can increase the guns value, but you will pay for the wood to get it there. Also, if you put a new stock on the rifle, and the metal isn't in good condition, then even with an expensive stock, it may not bring what it could. If one had it professionally reblued, and a new fitted stock, then it could bring more, but you'll have a bundle in it. Take a look at Macon Gunstocks. They kind of took the place of EC Bishop, and are in the heart of gunstock country. https://www.macongunstocks.com/ https://www.macongunstocks.com/Catalog_Pricing.html

February 14, 2015, 02:41 PM	#4
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	The G prefix started in 1968, or so I understand. I believe the "Westerner" name has been resurrected more than once. If it was made between 1964 and 1994 it will be a push feed action. All pre-64's were Controlled round feed. Between 1994-2006 they made both PF and CRF rifles. If you determine it is a pre-64, the stock is different. Anything 1964-2006 will use the same stock as long as the action length is the same, bottom metal is the same and barrel contour is the same. Most used 2 piece bottom metal, with a few having blind magazines. It doesn't matter if it is CRF or PF, the stocks are interchangeable. All guns made 2008-present use 1 piece bottom metal and almost all of the aftermarket stocks are made for the newer guns. The only real options for aftermarket stocks made for 2 piece metal are the high end versions made by McMillan and others. It is possible to buy one of the newer stocks and put it on an older rifle. You'll need to either replace the bottom metal, around $100. Or buy an adapter, around $10-$20.

February 14, 2015, 04:02 PM	#6
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	When you do look at stocks, and you are building up a gun to suit you, the shooter, then select what you want, which will work best for you. If its walnut, synthetic, or plywood, each has there own pluses. If you're wanting to take it to a new look, as from the factory, then you have to look at a stock to match the original. The lowest price rifle long stocks run around $80.00 to $100.00, and can be what is known as utility grade. The ones running about $150.00 are a plain grade. On utility grade, you may receive one with knots, etc, that need to be filled before finishing. Also, both are semi-inletted, in that you have to make them fit, through sanding and chiseling, then finish them. You won't get them pre-checkered this way. You can get generic pre-fitted stocks, but they will cost more. Also, you can send a stockmaker your gun, and have a perfect stock made, checkering and all. Look around the gun parts houses. If they are an old company, like Numrich, they could have a new old stock for sale.

February 14, 2015, 11:58 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If I recall correctly, and I might not, the original Westerner was a featherweight Model 70 with a 26" barrel, chambered for the .264 Win Mag and the .300 Win Mag. The idea was to have a rifle that could be carried easily but still have the barrel length to "reach out" when distance was a factor. It came on the market around 1963, and went away after the 1964 changes. The name was later revived in the mid-1980's for a cheapened down Model 70 in limited chambering and a lighter stock with a smaller magazine. Those had the G prefix serial number. Again I could be wrong, but I don't think a standard Model 70 stock will fit those rifles. I definitely would check with the stock maker and be sure it will fit or can be returned if it won't. Jim

February 15, 2015, 07:36 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am not sure, and don't want to mislead you so I can't answer that. But the stock maker should know the barrel contour or you can take a chance on it being standard contour and either fit it or return it if necessary. Jim

February 16, 2015, 12:44 PM	#11
SOC_chief_dave Member Join Date: February 13, 2015 Location: CLASSIFIED Posts: 17	@James K; Okay, thank you sir. I appreciate all you have shared! I got the Winchester/Browning parts dept #. I'm going to call them and see what they say and cross reference that with Hogue. __________________ "Zip it hippie."

February 17, 2015, 03:26 PM	#12
SOC_chief_dave Member Join Date: February 13, 2015 Location: CLASSIFIED Posts: 17	So I called the Winchester/Browning parts department and asked them if there are any modern stocks that will fit my rifle, and they told me no. Any stock I buy will likely have to be modified by a gunsmith to get it to fit. Damn __________________ "Zip it hippie."

February 18, 2015, 06:08 PM	#13
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,378	Westerner m-70 Don't know zip about post 64 M-70s. JamesK's post is right on button. Would be careful about how much you spend on a post 64 unless it has sentimental value. With money spent on nice stock, plus what you can sell rifle for would buy you a better gun. With$600 stock $400 gun, that's $1000 to play with.

February 19, 2015, 11:59 AM	#14
SOC_chief_dave Member Join Date: February 13, 2015 Location: CLASSIFIED Posts: 17	Hogue emailed me back and said that their 200 dollar overmolded stocks will fit as long as I replace the bottom metal. Honestly, I'm going to just skip the difficulty of even wasting my time and just start scratch. I always wanted something longer than the 22" barrel of my M70. The Rem700 long range in 30-06 is looking tempting with a Leopold VX1 and a nice 6-9" adjustable bipod. :P __________________ "Zip it hippie."