Ramshot TAC for use in .223 practice rounds

[KLRANGL]

New to reloading here, working on my first load, a .223 for my 14.5" middy carbine. Trying to replicate the .223 Hornady 75gr TAP rounds for practice.
Will be the Hornady 75 grain BTHP on top of once fired Lake City brass and CCI #41 primers, and I need about 2700fps out of a 24inch bbl according to Hornady specs.
My question comes down to the powder. I've heard good things about Ramshot TAC (and not just because it has the word Tactical in the title), but the Hornady reloading manual only has TAC specified for the .223 up to their 60grain bullets, and without TAC for their 68 and 75 grain bullets. Is there any particular reason for that? The Ramshot load guide has a 75grain .223 going almost 2800 at max load in a 24in bbl.
So the question is, should I run the Ramshot TAC, or is there a better alternative that I am missing?
Also, do people run Ramshot TAC at 5.56 pressure levels, or should I just stay away from that and stick to .223 levels? I like the wiggle room of the .223, but I like to get adventurous as I get proficient in things, so I see myself trying to get 5.56 levels someday...

[HiBC]

I don't have a Hornady manual,but I have looked in one. I think you will find a 75 gr Tac load in their 223 service rifle page.
Brass life is quickly compromised when you push .223......primer pockets.
Watch for your extractor pulling the rim back,also.
I believe Tac will get 2700 with a 20 in bbl in an AR per Hornady manual.

[Loader9]

When in doubt, go the manufacturers website. They show TAC as a good powder for a quick twist 223 and the Hornady 75 gr pill at over 2700'ps.
http://www.ramshot.com/powders/loadg...Load_guide.pdf

Looks like 23.0 grs of TAC will do it but as always, start low and work up. I assume you know that you must have a quick test barrel to stabilize the longer bullets.

[Unclenick]

KLRANGL,

Note that the Ramshot manual loads are fired with a Federal 205 primer, which is much milder than the #41. Back the manual loads off about 5% and work up for that magnum rated primer.

QuickLOAD says that a load using the components that Western Powders did with Ramshot will reach 2700 fps from their 24" barrel with 22.8 grains of TAC under the 75 grain BTHP #2279. That same load gives 2390 fps when I change the barrel length from 24" to 14.5". If you have a chronograph, after backing the load off to 21.7 grains, check the velocity. Work back up with your #41 primers toward 2390 fps and stop either when you get there or when you get to the manual's 22.6 grain maximum, whichever is reached first and without pressure signs. Assuming you get to 2390 fps without a problem, that should be a fare copy of the load you are trying to mimic.

That 75 grain bullet is short, like the 77 grain Sierra MatchKing, so you should be fine with a 9" twist unless you go into air below freezing or barometric pressure above 31" of mercury. Then accuracy will deteriorate for the 9" twist. 8" would be a better all-climate twist for that bullet and velocity range.

[zippy13]

I type slowly, so this may be somewhat redundant, since others have pre-posted me. Since you are a self-admitted reloading newby, please don't be offended if I assume you are less knowledgeable than you may be. Heavy AR bullets were first developed for long range shooting with fast barrels. Subsequently, they've been embraced by the tactical crowd because of their added mass. Hopefully your carbine has a fast barrel (1:7 or 1:9).

Why are you trying to replicate the Hornady 75 gr TAP round… have you tested other loads and found the Hornady superior? Since you're going to be loading for practice, let's not worry about "tactical" performance factors like low flash. May I recommend that you stick strictly "by the book" until you get some experience. Unfortunately, most loading data don't list 14.5" barrels, on the contrary, they assume you'll be using a long one for the heavier bullets. Unfortunately, using data for a 24" barrel may give unsatisfactory results in your short barrel.

"the Hornady reloading manual only has TAC specified for the .223 up to their 60grain bullets, and without TAC for their 68 and 75 grain bullets. Is there any particular reason for that?"

My first guess is pressure. As the bullet weight increases, so does the pressure. Hornady's tests may have found TAC pressures were above their standards with bullets heavier than 60 gr. Ramshot could have run similar tests with different components and standards and found TAC acceptable for the heavier bullets. Here's a point to ponder: Hornady is selling bullets, and Ramshot is selling powder -- who are you going to believe? On the other hand, there are many positive reviews of TAC for all bullet weights in AR carbines. Remember, with your short barrel you won't be developing the pressures the Hornady techs did with their longer test barrels.

Since the Hornady Match and TAP loads have identical ballistics, may I suggest, as did HiBC, that you look for a match load to duplicate. The Hodgdon on-line guide lists a dozen loads with a 75 gr over 2,700 fps. For numerous reasons, I'll start with the slowest burning powder, with the lowest pressure, when developing a new load. I'm a daylight range shooter, so I'm not concerned with flash, as you may be. In your case, because of the barrel length differences, I'd select the listed load with a faster powder.

As far as pushing the envelope from SAAMI .223 Rem specs to NATO 5.56, may ask: Why? More often, than not, best accuracy is found below the max load listed. Keep your pressure down and make your AR, brass and pocketbook happy.

Good luck and let us know your results.

[KLRANGL]

I don't have a Hornady manual,but I have looked in one. I think you will find a 75 gr Tac load in their 223 service rifle page.

Unfortunatly they do not. If they did, I would have been much more confident on starting with it, as they list TAC for the non-service rifle .223 loads.

Note that the Ramshot manual loads are fired with a Federal 205 primer, which is much milder than the #41. Back the manual loads off about 5% and work up for that magnum rated primer.

Is it really? I was under the impression that the #41 were just "mil-spec" rifle primers with regards to hardness. Either way, I will certainly start with the lowest charge on the Ramshot load data and work up.

QuickLOAD says that a load using the components that Western Powders did with Ramshot will reach 2700 fps from their 24" barrel with 22.8 grains of TAC under the 75 grain BTHP #2279. That same load gives 2390 fps when I change the barrel length from 24" to 14.5". If you have a chronograph, after backing the load off to 21.7 grains, check the velocity. Work back up with your #41 primers toward 2390 fps and stop either when you get there or when you get to the manual's 22.6 grain maximum, whichever is reached first and without pressure signs.

Sounds pretty much exactly what I was planning on doing. Only difference being I was going to chrono some of the factory Hornady TAP first and work up either till max load/overpressure or the velocity is the same. But your numbers are a great ballpark, thanks.

That 75 grain bullet is short, like the 77 grain Sierra MatchKing, so you should be fine with a 9" twist unless you go into air below freezing or barometric pressure above 31" of mercury. Then accuracy will deteriorate for the 9" twist. 8" would be a better all-climate twist for that bullet and velocity range.

No worries, it has a 1/7 barrel so I'm good to go there.

Why are you trying to replicate the Hornady 75 gr TAP round… have you tested other loads and found the Hornady superior?

Unfortunately no. The choice of the Hornady 75gr TAP was based off of others experiences using it in a 14.5 carbine and my own purposes for it.

The Hodgdon on-line guide lists a dozen loads with a 75 gr over 2,700 fps. For numerous reasons, I'll start with the slowest burning powder, with the lowest pressure, when developing a new load. I'm a daylight range shooter, so I'm not concerned with flash, as you may be. In your case, because of the barrel length differences, I'd select the listed load with a faster powder.

Great idea, I'll give it a go...

As far as pushing the envelope from SAAMI .223 Rem specs to NATO 5.56, may ask: Why? More often, than not, best accuracy is found below the max load listed. Keep your pressure down and make your AR, brass and pocketbook happy.

Well coming out of a 14.5 carbine, accuracy is less of an issue than energy at, say the 0-200yd range is. This wont be run on a bench where the difference between 1.5 and 1moa is a big deal...

Thanks guys, you've been a great help. Any more information or ideas are always welcome.

[4runnerman]

Never tried Tac yet,but i know RL-15 is working awesome for me with Hornady 75 gn bullets. 24 gn,RL-15 rem7 1/2 primer, 2.365 COL
Very tight groups so far

[Dave R]

FWIW, over on AR15.com, the guys in the reloading forum seem to like Tac for heavier .223 bullets like the ones you are using. You might get a strong second opinion there.

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by KLRANGL

I was under the impression that the #41 were just "mil-spec" rifle primers with regards to hardness.

No. They're military primers all around, except they don't go through the mil-spec lot qualification testing. All military primers are magnum primer strength for reliable cold weather ignition. The #34 and #41 primers also get nickel plated cups to help identify them as civilian and not for military sales.

Look at CCI's description here. Scroll down to the Features and the bottom line tells you to use magnum primer loading data.