Broomhandle question

80viking · December 13, 2009, 07:01 PM

there are no windage adjustments on my BH what gives? and how do you know which one are ok for a shoulder stock?

James K · December 13, 2009, 07:48 PM

Almost all C96 Mausers were cut for a shoulder stock. Look for the slot at the bottom rear of the grip. If it is there, it should be obvious. But not all came with the stock originally and that, combined with the law, means that few today in the U.S. have the stock.

As you may know, the C96 with an original German-made shoulder stock has been removed from the purview of the NFA and is considered a Curio and Relic, though still a pistol and subject to the FFA. Pistols with reproduction stocks are still under the NFA. Check state and local laws, also. A few states copied the federal law and have not changed.

Standard C96 pistol sights do not have windage adjustments, only elevation.

Jim

80viking · December 13, 2009, 08:55 PM

thanks for the reply Jim, so if I have an original C96 stock I should be OK, best I can figure is I have a pre war commercial BH

**4V50 Gary** · December 14, 2009, 01:00 AM

Thanks Jim. I didn't know it was OK for Broomhandles to be mated to their original stocks.

tes1900 · December 29, 2009, 01:57 AM

Two of my BH’s have the wood holster that can be attached for a stock. I would like to have one of the ones with the metal extension shoulder stock but just cannot find and when can find I cannot afford!
Oh well…
Tom

madcratebuilder · December 29, 2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

As you may know, the C96 with an original German-made shoulder stock has been removed from the purview of the NFA and is considered a Curio and Relic, though still a pistol and subject to the FFA. Pistols with reproduction stocks are still under the NFA. Check state and local laws, also. A few states copied the federal law and have not changed.

Jim, I was under the impression that the replica stocks where treated the same as the originals. It would be very difficult law to enforce with so many quality fakes on the market. I see them being sold with both original and new stocks, local and on Gunbroker.

I have one original stock and two replicas, I sure would not want to be in violation.

GUNNER336 · December 29, 2009, 09:47 PM

Replica stocks of the originals are exempt ATF has ruled. But you cannot attached a stock to a Colt 45 or Glock . Go figure

80viking · December 29, 2009, 10:04 PM

I have an original german shoulder stock for mine, problem is my BH shoots about 3'' to the left @ 50', I'd really like to do some 100yd plinking with it but not until I can figure out a way to adjust the windage, I'm thinking of finding another rear sight for it and figuring out a way of doing it with that?

James K · December 29, 2009, 10:30 PM

Hi, Gunner336,

I was unaware of that change. At first, they were very specific about only original stocks being considered. Have they changed on other stocks? A year or so ago, I sold an FN BHP with a Canadian stock (registered) and asked if it had to go on a Form 4; BATFE said it did, since the stock was not original to the FN pistol. Had it been an Inglis BHP (the Chinese ones were slotted), it would have been non-NFA and I could have gotten a letter to that effect.

Jim

madcratebuilder · December 30, 2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUNNER336

Replica stocks of the originals are exempt ATF has ruled. But you cannot attached a stock to a Colt 45 or Glock . Go figure

I never have figured out the reasoning behind the shoulder stock rule. You hand a shoulder stocked pistol to someone and most don't even know how to hold it.

I have found a way around it.

80viking · December 30, 2009, 11:19 PM

''You hand a shoulder stocked pistol to someone and most don't even know how to hold it.''

The first time I fired my BH with the shoulder stock I learned how not to hold it

**4V50 Gary** · December 31, 2009, 12:15 AM

80viking - did you have hammer bite. I've got small hands, did not cross thumb over thumb and was shooting a Broomhandle that had a small ring. I still got bitten.

80viking · December 31, 2009, 01:21 PM

yes, I don't even grasp it with my thumb anymore, I keep it along side and pull the stock into my shoulder with the fingers around the front of the grip

levallois · January 8, 2010, 12:50 PM

I don't enjoy shooting my Broomhandles with a stock. I think they are quite comfortable as a stand-alone pistol. Here's my Conehammer in a Heiser holster.

madcratebuilder · January 8, 2010, 03:05 PM

Nice looking rig.

Chipperman · January 8, 2010, 04:25 PM

Accoring to the printed C&R list from ATF, the stocks must be original German manufacture.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...-p-5300-11.pdf

Section III, page 39

Quote:

Mauser, Model 1896 semiautomatic pistol accompanied by original German mfd. detachable wooden holster/shoulder stocks, all semiautomatic German mfd. variations produced prior to 1940,
any caliber.
Mauser, Pistol-Carbine, model 1896, 7.63mm, with shoulder stock and 11-3/4" to 16" barrel.

I have heard that repro stocks were also allowed to be attached to original C96s, but have not actually seen it in any official ATF documentation.

gyvel · January 10, 2010, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Replica stocks of the originals are exempt ATF has ruled.

I believe they reversed themselves on that ruling.

80viking · January 13, 2010, 04:36 PM

This is my Broomhandle, it's right near the top of my list of my favorite guns, and I consider myself a rifle guy.

I'm looking for a leather jock or some sort of holster the gun and stock will fit into, any suggestions?

Chaz88 · January 13, 2010, 04:45 PM

I must be a bit slow. Because no rational reason to restrict a shoulder stock is coming to mind. Please enlighten me.

Chipperman · January 13, 2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Because no rational reason to restrict a shoulder stock is coming to mind.

You're looking for a rational reason behind gun laws?

BWAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAA...gasp.....BWAAAHAAAAHHAAAAA.

Sorry.
OK, here it is. Pistols are more deadly than rifles because they are more concealable. Pistols with shoulder stocks are more deadly than pistols without stocks because they are more like rifles. Rifles with short barrels are more deadly because they are more like pistols. See, it's all very logical.

farmall · January 13, 2010, 09:11 PM

80Viking, I shoot an original 1930 Commercial BH. There is no non-butchering way of adjusting for windage that I can see.

Levallois, I absolutely love the holster / gun combo! So incongrous it's awesome. Western leather for a very European gun! Any story behind this rig?
The only plausible one I see is someone returning to the ranch with their war trophy broomhandle.

Andy

levallois · January 14, 2010, 08:23 PM

farmall,

The broomie in the above photo was sold by Westley Richards in January 1900 - it was manufactured in 1899.

The rig did not come with the gun. I have never seen another Heiser holster like this for a Broomhandle so is it a custom? Who knows? However, they look like they were made for each other.

My other broomie looks good with it too. More western with the engraving and stag grips.

John

farmall · January 14, 2010, 10:13 PM

Levallois, remind me never to play poker with you! Stag grips and engraving???? Quite the hole card!

Can you post pics of the engraving? I'm really curious now.

Andy

levallois · January 15, 2010, 12:17 AM

It's an interesting gun - a local engraver that I showed it to, who is pretty good, gave the scrolling an 8 out of 10 and the animals a 6-7 out of 10

African lion on one side:

And American Eagle on the other:

Chipperman · January 15, 2010, 09:39 AM

I usually don't like engraved guns, but that looks really cool.

December 13, 2009, 07:01 PM	#1
80viking Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2009 Location: The Peoples Republic of Massac Posts: 333	Broomhandle question there are no windage adjustments on my BH what gives? and how do you know which one are ok for a shoulder stock?

December 14, 2009, 01:00 AM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Thanks Jim. I didn't know it was OK for Broomhandles to be mated to their original stocks. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 29, 2009, 01:57 AM	#5
tes1900 Member Join Date: November 8, 2009 Location: Gardnerville Nevada...Free America Posts: 35	wood holster Two of my BH’s have the wood holster that can be attached for a stock. I would like to have one of the ones with the metal extension shoulder stock but just cannot find and when can find I cannot afford! Oh well… Tom

December 29, 2009, 09:47 PM	#7
GUNNER336 Member Join Date: December 14, 2009 Posts: 38	BH Replica stocks of the originals are exempt ATF has ruled. But you cannot attached a stock to a Colt 45 or Glock . Go figure

December 31, 2009, 12:15 AM	#12
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	80viking - did you have hammer bite. I've got small hands, did not cross thumb over thumb and was shooting a Broomhandle that had a small ring. I still got bitten. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 13, 2009, 07:48 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Almost all C96 Mausers were cut for a shoulder stock. Look for the slot at the bottom rear of the grip. If it is there, it should be obvious. But not all came with the stock originally and that, combined with the law, means that few today in the U.S. have the stock. As you may know, the C96 with an original German-made shoulder stock has been removed from the purview of the NFA and is considered a Curio and Relic, though still a pistol and subject to the FFA. Pistols with reproduction stocks are still under the NFA. Check state and local laws, also. A few states copied the federal law and have not changed. Standard C96 pistol sights do not have windage adjustments, only elevation. Jim

December 13, 2009, 08:55 PM	#3
80viking Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2009 Location: The Peoples Republic of Massac Posts: 333	thanks for the reply Jim, so if I have an original C96 stock I should be OK, best I can figure is I have a pre war commercial BH

December 29, 2009, 10:04 PM	#8
80viking Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2009 Location: The Peoples Republic of Massac Posts: 333	I have an original german shoulder stock for mine, problem is my BH shoots about 3'' to the left @ 50', I'd really like to do some 100yd plinking with it but not until I can figure out a way to adjust the windage, I'm thinking of finding another rear sight for it and figuring out a way of doing it with that?

December 29, 2009, 10:30 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Gunner336, I was unaware of that change. At first, they were very specific about only original stocks being considered. Have they changed on other stocks? A year or so ago, I sold an FN BHP with a Canadian stock (registered) and asked if it had to go on a Form 4; BATFE said it did, since the stock was not original to the FN pistol. Had it been an Inglis BHP (the Chinese ones were slotted), it would have been non-NFA and I could have gotten a letter to that effect. Jim

December 30, 2009, 11:19 PM	#11
80viking Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2009 Location: The Peoples Republic of Massac Posts: 333	''You hand a shoulder stocked pistol to someone and most don't even know how to hold it.'' The first time I fired my BH with the shoulder stock I learned how not to hold it

December 31, 2009, 01:21 PM	#13
80viking Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2009 Location: The Peoples Republic of Massac Posts: 333	yes, I don't even grasp it with my thumb anymore, I keep it along side and pull the stock into my shoulder with the fingers around the front of the grip

January 8, 2010, 12:50 PM	#14
levallois Member Join Date: June 12, 2009 Posts: 63	I don't enjoy shooting my Broomhandles with a stock. I think they are quite comfortable as a stand-alone pistol. Here's my Conehammer in a Heiser holster.

January 8, 2010, 03:05 PM	#15
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Nice looking rig.

January 13, 2010, 04:45 PM	#19
Chaz88 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Posts: 1,243	I must be a bit slow. Because no rational reason to restrict a shoulder stock is coming to mind. Please enlighten me. __________________ Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.

January 13, 2010, 09:11 PM	#21
farmall Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: Beatrice Nebraska Posts: 613	80Viking, I shoot an original 1930 Commercial BH. There is no non-butchering way of adjusting for windage that I can see. Levallois, I absolutely love the holster / gun combo! So incongrous it's awesome. Western leather for a very European gun! Any story behind this rig? The only plausible one I see is someone returning to the ranch with their war trophy broomhandle. Andy

January 14, 2010, 08:23 PM	#22
levallois Member Join Date: June 12, 2009 Posts: 63	farmall, The broomie in the above photo was sold by Westley Richards in January 1900 - it was manufactured in 1899. The rig did not come with the gun. I have never seen another Heiser holster like this for a Broomhandle so is it a custom? Who knows? However, they look like they were made for each other. My other broomie looks good with it too. More western with the engraving and stag grips. John

January 14, 2010, 10:13 PM	#23
farmall Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: Beatrice Nebraska Posts: 613	Levallois, remind me never to play poker with you! Stag grips and engraving???? Quite the hole card! Can you post pics of the engraving? I'm really curious now. Andy

January 15, 2010, 12:17 AM	#24
levallois Member Join Date: June 12, 2009 Posts: 63	It's an interesting gun - a local engraver that I showed it to, who is pretty good, gave the scrolling an 8 out of 10 and the animals a 6-7 out of 10 African lion on one side: And American Eagle on the other:

January 15, 2010, 09:39 AM	#25
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	I usually don't like engraved guns, but that looks really cool.