AR mfgs - who will still be around?

[precision_shooter]

Talking with my Dad and cousin over the weekend and my cousin posed a question of which AR mfg to look at if he wanted to buy one. The conversation turned into a discussion of all the new AR manufacturers that sprung up seemingly overnight to cash in on the buying craze due to the scare of a ban.

There are so many mfgs nowadays, it's hard to keep track of who makes what and for how much...

Now that things are somewhat back to normal, how many of the companies producing AR variants do you think will still be around or making AR pattern rifles in the next 1, 2, or even 5 years?

The big names I'm sure won't be going anywhere, but what about the smaller companies?

[reynolds357]

The smaller companies making quality will be fine. Small companies adapt quicker to niches in the market and cash in on changing trends. The importers of Chinese made "mil spec" junk will fade away quickly.

[BarryLee]

While I don’t think the Colt name will ever go away I wonder if the company as we know it might. The company has been the victim of bad management and bad decisions over the last several years. I wonder if we might see another firearms manufacturer buy them out, some kind of merger or maybe a spinoff of some sort.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...fter-crisis#p1

[Oysterboy]

I was looking around for an AR15 and I have seen many brands that it makes my head spin. I decided then to narrow it down to USA made and check the prices on them.

This is where I found my S&W M&P15 Sport 556 NATO 1/9 and my local range happened to have one for $679.

It's mine now.

[Brotherbadger]

The smaller companies making quality will be fine. Small companies adapt quicker to niches in the market and cash in on changing trends. The importers of Chinese made "mil spec" junk will fade away quickly.

Yup. Make a quality product at a decent price and you will be fine.

[Double Naught Spy]

And what if the smaller companies do disappear? It is a sort of 'so what?' deal since you will still be able to get parts for their guns (they are AR15s, after all). That isn't to say that I want any to fail, but if they do stop producing, it should be no major impact on their consumers.

[Ritz]

Even if every last one of them went TU tomorrow, there's still plenty of parts to go around for a very very long time.

[9x19]

I was talking about this with the owner of the LGS yesterday morning. He sees Colt lasting another year, maybe.

He thinks Wyndham will survive, but he's not so sure about Bushmaster, Del-Ton, Black Rain etc.

I wonder if the big names will stay in the game if the market truly shrinks... or shift that manufacturing capacity to some other model they sell that has more demand.

[Signal-0]

I think prices are lower now, for rifles and parts, than they have ever been. The market is flooded... companies that offer items other than black rifles and black rifle parts should fair ok.

Of course, one never knows when another incident will take place that drives prices sky high due to ban fears.

Everything goes in cycles...

[MarkCO]

There are a few already in trouble, some because they spent when they should have saved. There are at least two small ones here in Colorado that are in deep debt with no way to recover without investment. Investors are leary as well.

There will be some shifting for sure, but also realize that the AR marketplace is ripe for a savvy guy to start up, make some cash and then sell off the product line and or company itself to a larger company. I know of at least two where the owners whole plan has been to build it and then sell it off.

Prices are very low now and the market is soft, and flooded in the commercial market. The LE/Mil has taken a smaller hit, but they feel it too.

IF the company being around is important to you long term, there is no guarantee, but I would look at something from DD, BCM, FNH, S&W or Colt, the last three being more sure. Sure there are other companies with solid rifles and finances, but some of those might be the ones whose owners sell in the next few years and go hit the beach. Ownership changes can have a large impact on quality.

[highpower3006]

It really doesn't matter if a particular company is able to stay in business or not. The AR platform is so interchangeable that even if manufacturer XYZ goes belly-up, you will always be able to get parts for your rifle.

It's a non issue in my book.

[G.barnes]

I think the top tier companies like bcm and dd will stay around as will most bigger names like dpms and bushmaster. Most of the people we will see go way are all these joe schmoes tactical armory.

[Fishbed77]

I was talking about this with the owner of the LGS yesterday morning. He sees Colt lasting another year, maybe.

Sounds like classic gunstore counter BS.

Colt sells every pistol they make and they still have government contracts (including the M45 pistol). They may restructure at some point, but they aren't going anywhere.

[Double Naught Spy]

Sounds like classic gunstore counter BS.

LOL, Colt has been going out of business for the last 15 years, yet they never seem to go out of business.

[9x19]

Colt sells every pistol they make and they still have government contracts (including the M45 pistol). They may restructure at some point, but they aren't going anywhere.

Typical internet expert BS?

Outside opinions are just that... none more/less valid than others.

Time will tell who made the best guess... I guess.

[Technosavant]

I'd expect the big names to stick around (Bushmaster, Colt, etc.), as would the smaller companies with reputations of making great quality stuff (BCM, DD). The little boutique companies like Black Rain, I don't know if they'll make it stick.

Either way, just buy quality to begin with and it will be less an issue. Even if something goes bad there's always going to be somebody making parts you can use... that's the magic of the AR platform. It's all interchangeable (well, within some limits, but the better companies tend to keep to spec pretty well).

[Fishbed77]

Typical internet expert BS?

Outside opinions are just that... none more/less valid than others.

Time will tell who made the best guess... I guess.

No.

What I stated was fact, not a guess or an opinion. Colt still has government contracts, and still sells every pistol they produce.

Your gunstore counter guy was spreading BS with nothing empirical to back it up.

[precision_shooter]

No.

What I stated was fact, not a guess or an opinion. Colt still has government contracts, and still sells every pistol they produce.

Your gunstore counter guy was spreading BS with nothing empirical to back it up.

Have any numbers for how many pistols colt has produced, and how many they have sold? A very quick search turned up 115 pages (50 ads on each page) of colt handguns for sale on Gunbroker. Most of those ads with 0 bids. That's just one websight. How many more websites are there with colt pistols for sale? How many gun shops who don't sell online have Colt pistols sitting in their display case that they would like to sell?

Just because colt has a contract with .gov, doesn't mean their line of firearms that are sold to the public will survive. If colt no longer sells to the public, in essence they don't exist to you and me.

How is your opinion any more fact than a LGS owner stating they won't be around in a years time?
If going to state a fact, factual data needs to be provided.

I don't know if colt will be around as a civilian firearms mfg in the future, but I suspect the smaller outfits won't be.

[reynolds357]

I do not know whether or not Colt will make it. I have been told that Colt currently has military contracts, but they are about to run out. I do know that Remington and FN got the big contracts for the M4 that were recently awarded. Colt has never done good when it was not selling arms to the military. They do not adapt very well to a "civilian only" market. Colts bread and butter in the civilian market is the 1911. There are better 1911's being sold cheaper. Time will tell what the future holds for Colt, but in all seriousness; it would not shock me to hear that FN has driven the death nail into Colt.

[dayman]

I'll take a different tact and guess that we might see either dpms or bushmaster get folded into the other. Or possibly them both get folded up into Remington.

[gyvel]

I bought a lower a couple years ago, and that company has already gone out of business, although it seems to be a pretty good item. (It was a "Kaiser Defense.")

[HKFan9]

I was talking about this with the owner of the LGS yesterday morning. He sees Colt lasting another year, maybe.

He thinks Wyndham will survive, but he's not so sure about Bushmaster, Del-Ton, Black Rain etc.

This made me laugh out loud.

I work for a gun store, Colt is not going anywhere (he probably just has trouble getting them).

As for Bushmaster.. they are owned by Remington / Freedom Arms Group.... probably one of the biggest powers in the firearms industry right now, they will not be going anywhere. Del-Ton has a super strong following from the building community just like PSA, Black Rain I doubt will go anywhere, people who want to spend the coin love them.

Colt sells what they made.... just because they are on gunbroker... means Colt already sold them to a whole saler and then to a retailer (thats why they are for sale for you on gun broker) Just because they don't have bids doesn't mean people dont buy them, Gun broker is usually high for anything. I have cases full of Kimbers and Springers, Sigs, Remington R1.. you don't see a lot of Colts because they sell as fast as we get them.

Keep in mind Colt also just bought out LWRC so they can't be hurting all too badly.

[horselips]

When I think AR15, I think ABCD. Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, DPMS. I'm sure there are equivalent guns, better guns, and worse guns out there, and I don't care - don't waste my time. For quality, performance, price, value, and cachet, those four have it all covered. Buy with confidence. Enjoy.

[Dragline45]

The big names I'm sure won't be going anywhere, but what about the smaller companies?

I would be devastated if BCM went under. I just bought my first upper from them and plan on getting another eventually.

[Fishbed77]

How is your opinion any more fact than a LGS owner stating they won't be around in a years time?
If going to state a fact, factual data needs to be provided.

I'm not sure how stating that Colt has government contracts (and then specifically indicating the M45 as a well-known example) can in any way be construed as opinion.