An item almost all of us can agree on: BILLBOARD

Sevens · August 22, 2014, 02:36 PM

Y'know, the buying and gun-owning public, from the brand new shooters to the video game folks who just want to snag whatever item they've come to love on their TV screen to the life long hobbyists and purists, competition shooters, collectors, and FILL IN THE BLANK make up a group that all look for different things in their handguns.

Some love the modern guns that use lighter weight, high strength materials and modern manufacturing to make a durable and fine running platform, like something modern and polymer. Others refuse the newer stuff and only get excited with steel topped off with a bit of wood. We can argue til the cows come home about big things and little things and even if we manage to agree on a single platform (say a group who all happen to love a 1911) then we can divide ourselves further when it comes to sights, triggers, serrations, grips, finish, MSH, etc etc etc.

Yes, there's not a thing wrong with this. Variety is the spice of life and if we all had the same thing it would be boring.

What I am chasing here is the idea that there must be something that like 97% of us can agree on, and I'm only bringing it up because it baffles me that if we all agree, why do some of the gunmakers keep doing it?!

I submit: billboard type writing/script on your handgun!

Don't we almost all agree that it just looks horrendous and when all else is equal, it looks awful and the other direction is infinitely better?

Look at a Dan Wesson 1911 and tell me what you see, visually.
Now, look at the Desert Eagle 1911 and just tell me what pops in to your head.

Many believe STI makes a decent handgun and their logo/rollmark with the -sTi- inside the outline of the State of Texas is a fine looking trademark, but WHAT are they thinking when they pound out that h-u-g-e trainwreck model name down the side of the slide?

Rock Island has recent taken to making a neat little logo of their brand at the rear of the slide with their new guns, getting away from the horrendous full-length stamping down the side of the slide. The older ones look like a 53-foot trailer behind a big rig!

The Taurus 1911, for whatever you think of it, would look better without 10 minutes worth of reading down the slab sides, wouldn't you agree?

Which Wilson pistols look better? The ones with barely anything on them, or with HUGE, all-caps names etched in to the length of them?

Does anyone disagree with what I'm trying to say here (with far too many examples?!

)

RX-79G · August 22, 2014, 02:40 PM

Another question would be: Despite the poor aesthetics, which marking sells more guns?

If people buy guns despite the billboards, other people may be buying guns because they saw them at the range.

Venom1956 · August 22, 2014, 02:53 PM

Free advertisement. Might as aswell am i right?

AK103K · August 22, 2014, 02:55 PM

Just as long as it doesnt say "replica", and Bullet Tooth Tony isnt sitting on the other side of the table with his Desert Eagle "point" 50.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR5jufwSqm8

JN01 · August 22, 2014, 02:56 PM

I wouldn't use it as a deciding factor of whether or not to buy a gun, performance and reliability are much more important. However, everything else being equal, I would choose the gun without all the gaudy stampings.

That is the reason I prefer the Cimarron cap and ball revolvers to the Pietta versions which have crap stamped all over them, for example.

feets · August 22, 2014, 03:05 PM

Where does my Whitney Wolverine fall into this?

It's a large highlighted logo but the font fits the style of the gun. I kinda like it.

Sevens · August 22, 2014, 03:08 PM

You're right, it does fit that whole package. It's not quite what I was going for in the thread.

To the point, however, even that printing doesn't run nearly the full length of the handgun like some do.

WVsig · August 22, 2014, 04:13 PM

The Pistol With No Name!!!!

That is why I must have one... someday!!!!

DA/SA Fan · August 22, 2014, 04:37 PM

I don't mind the name or model if it's not the whole gun treatment. What I am hating is the trend towards stamping instructions and warnings on firearms.

s3779m · August 22, 2014, 04:51 PM

Have got to agree with you, I don"t mind the company logos. Ex. the ruger bird or the s&w symbol. But if I want to read I'll get a magazine. Its only time before we see advertisement on the barrel.

**Spats McGee** · August 22, 2014, 04:54 PM

As Venom points out, free advertising. From the manufacturer's perspective, that may well be the single most important part of the gun.

g.willikers · August 22, 2014, 05:05 PM

If you can see the writing on the gun when yer shooting, you're doing it wrong.

Dragline45 · August 22, 2014, 05:05 PM

Like the old saying goes, keep it simple stupid. Keep the logo and roll marks simple and tasteful and no one will complain, slather the slide with ugly logos and writing and the like, and people will complain.

Perfect example is the new Sig X-Five. I am interested in owning one of the older models, but I won't touch the new one. Why you ask? Well for one it's the corny Nerf X-Five logo, to make it worse it's laser engraved. One of the best things about stainless is every few years you can bead blast it and make it look brand new, well not with laser etching. Each time that laser etched logo is hit with blast media it becomes more faint and unappealing.

Most people who are going to spend big bucks on an all steel gun tend to be traditionalists, why the people at Sig thought the Nerf looking X-Five logo would appeal to this crowd is beyond me.

rightside · August 22, 2014, 06:05 PM

I love my RIA tactical, but hate the billboard! I've tried to lighten it with bluing, etc; Still there. I think I'm gonna' strip it and either reblue of duracoat it. Maybe the whole damn thing!

smokemup · August 23, 2014, 02:20 PM

Billboard king!

trigger643 · August 23, 2014, 02:55 PM

I absolutely agree. It just ruins the aesthetics of a firearm and makes it completely undesirable.

A perfect example is this monstrosity, I mean really! Who wants all this gaudy jibberish marring up their otherwise beautiful gun. How it lasted 102 years without someone grinding it off is beyond me:

Here's another travesty of free advertising...

If these were mine, I'd duracoat over them immediately.

Thankfully, this practice is pretty much confined to the gun industry...

SHE3PDOG · August 23, 2014, 05:59 PM

I can't say that I've ever cared or even noticed this until you brought it up. I honestly don't think I could care less about it. It certainly wouldn't be a determining factor in my gun purchases.

RX-79G · August 23, 2014, 06:24 PM

^ And that's why the billboard s aren't going anywhere.

ttarp · August 23, 2014, 07:35 PM

Small or unobtrusive rollmarks were a large part in 1911 selection for me. The billboard guns really do turn me off, I know function trumps form every time, but its nice when you can get both.

**Spats McGee** · August 23, 2014, 08:06 PM

Honestly, unless the billboard is truly garish, they don't really bother me.

lamarw · August 23, 2014, 08:22 PM

I am not a big fan either of billboards, but most of them I can get over without too much anxiety.

I look at my Colt M1911 manufactured and delivered to Uncle Sam in 1918. What is on the left side of the slide? The entire side is stamped with the patent dates and the Colt Pony. One might ask why did Colt decide to stamp on the patent dates for a pistol being delivered to the Government which issues patents and has copies of the patents on file. So with the M1911 this was being done for over a hundred years. Yes, the message is different but the billboard is still there.

Big Shrek · August 23, 2014, 11:42 PM

Depends entirely on the stamping...some is right on...others, like that Nerf XFive stuff, I'd not buy.

This pistol was so bad off finish-wise I stripped it, taking it all the way to the stainless steel...

Now it looks like this...and will eventually be gold-plated, with nothing but the model name & serial stamped...
the extra patent & other junk will be covered over...

**Mike Irwin** · August 25, 2014, 07:11 AM

Advertising?

I was wondering why my pistol has "DRINK GOLDMAN'S PATENTED NEURO-TONIC FOR STEADY SHOOTING HANDS!" written on the side...

Skans · August 25, 2014, 08:05 AM

Heck, they've been doing this for over a century! I have an old Remington 1858 revolver that, IIRC, has the name of the company, patent date, and date actual address of where it was made. Not to mention inspector's stamps and cartouche.

Look at the old Colts- same thing.

At least with that AMT 45 backup above, it's easy enough to polish out the cheezy laser-engraved lawyer-stuff.

I agree about the new X-Five - I HATE the look of that logo. I'm not too fond of the under-rail either.

sigpro2340 · August 25, 2014, 08:35 AM

I agree with the fact that large etching or lettering is a bit much. If it's done in good taste, I have no issues.
There are times when too much, or very large lettering on a slide tends to make a pistol look cheap.

When I purchased the Ed Brown Massad Ayoob 1911, it was selected mostly due the high quality of the pistol, and not for the engraving. This specific model was only produced for 1 year.

August 22, 2014, 02:36 PM	#1
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	An item almost all of us can agree on: BILLBOARD Y'know, the buying and gun-owning public, from the brand new shooters to the video game folks who just want to snag whatever item they've come to love on their TV screen to the life long hobbyists and purists, competition shooters, collectors, and FILL IN THE BLANK make up a group that all look for different things in their handguns. Some love the modern guns that use lighter weight, high strength materials and modern manufacturing to make a durable and fine running platform, like something modern and polymer. Others refuse the newer stuff and only get excited with steel topped off with a bit of wood. We can argue til the cows come home about big things and little things and even if we manage to agree on a single platform (say a group who all happen to love a 1911) then we can divide ourselves further when it comes to sights, triggers, serrations, grips, finish, MSH, etc etc etc. Yes, there's not a thing wrong with this. Variety is the spice of life and if we all had the same thing it would be boring. What I am chasing here is the idea that there must be something that like 97% of us can agree on, and I'm only bringing it up because it baffles me that if we all agree, why do some of the gunmakers keep doing it?! I submit: billboard type writing/script on your handgun! Don't we almost all agree that it just looks horrendous and when all else is equal, it looks awful and the other direction is infinitely better? Look at a Dan Wesson 1911 and tell me what you see, visually. Now, look at the Desert Eagle 1911 and just tell me what pops in to your head. Many believe STI makes a decent handgun and their logo/rollmark with the -sTi- inside the outline of the State of Texas is a fine looking trademark, but WHAT are they thinking when they pound out that h-u-g-e trainwreck model name down the side of the slide? Rock Island has recent taken to making a neat little logo of their brand at the rear of the slide with their new guns, getting away from the horrendous full-length stamping down the side of the slide. The older ones look like a 53-foot trailer behind a big rig! The Taurus 1911, for whatever you think of it, would look better without 10 minutes worth of reading down the slab sides, wouldn't you agree? Which Wilson pistols look better? The ones with barely anything on them, or with HUGE, all-caps names etched in to the length of them? Does anyone disagree with what I'm trying to say here (with far too many examples?! ) __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 22, 2014, 02:53 PM	#3
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	Free advertisement. Might as aswell am i right? __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

August 22, 2014, 03:08 PM	#7
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	You're right, it does fit that whole package. It's not quite what I was going for in the thread. To the point, however, even that printing doesn't run nearly the full length of the handgun like some do. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 22, 2014, 04:13 PM	#8
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	The Pistol With No Name!!!! That is why I must have one... someday!!!! __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

August 22, 2014, 04:37 PM	#9
DA/SA Fan Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2014 Location: Missouri Posts: 661	I don't mind the name or model if it's not the whole gun treatment. What I am hating is the trend towards stamping instructions and warnings on firearms. __________________ "Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!" CASTLE DOCTRINE STRONGLY ENFORCED "Happiness is a warm gun"

August 22, 2014, 02:40 PM	#2
RX-79G Junior member Join Date: October 27, 2013 Posts: 1,139	Another question would be: Despite the poor aesthetics, which marking sells more guns? If people buy guns despite the billboards, other people may be buying guns because they saw them at the range.

August 22, 2014, 02:55 PM	#4
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	Just as long as it doesnt say "replica", and Bullet Tooth Tony isnt sitting on the other side of the table with his Desert Eagle "point" 50. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR5jufwSqm8

August 22, 2014, 02:56 PM	#5
JN01 Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2005 Location: E Tennessee Posts: 828	I wouldn't use it as a deciding factor of whether or not to buy a gun, performance and reliability are much more important. However, everything else being equal, I would choose the gun without all the gaudy stampings. That is the reason I prefer the Cimarron cap and ball revolvers to the Pietta versions which have crap stamped all over them, for example.

August 22, 2014, 03:05 PM	#6
feets Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2008 Posts: 560	Where does my Whitney Wolverine fall into this? It's a large highlighted logo but the font fits the style of the gun. I kinda like it.

August 22, 2014, 04:51 PM	#10
s3779m Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2012 Location: Lometa, Texas Posts: 342	Have got to agree with you, I don"t mind the company logos. Ex. the ruger bird or the s&w symbol. But if I want to read I'll get a magazine. Its only time before we see advertisement on the barrel.

August 22, 2014, 04:54 PM	#11
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	As Venom points out, free advertising. From the manufacturer's perspective, that may well be the single most important part of the gun. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

August 22, 2014, 05:05 PM	#12
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	If you can see the writing on the gun when yer shooting, you're doing it wrong. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

August 22, 2014, 05:05 PM	#13
Dragline45 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Posts: 3,513	Like the old saying goes, keep it simple stupid. Keep the logo and roll marks simple and tasteful and no one will complain, slather the slide with ugly logos and writing and the like, and people will complain. Perfect example is the new Sig X-Five. I am interested in owning one of the older models, but I won't touch the new one. Why you ask? Well for one it's the corny Nerf X-Five logo, to make it worse it's laser engraved. One of the best things about stainless is every few years you can bead blast it and make it look brand new, well not with laser etching. Each time that laser etched logo is hit with blast media it becomes more faint and unappealing. Most people who are going to spend big bucks on an all steel gun tend to be traditionalists, why the people at Sig thought the Nerf looking X-Five logo would appeal to this crowd is beyond me.

August 22, 2014, 06:05 PM	#14
rightside Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 419	I love my RIA tactical, but hate the billboard! I've tried to lighten it with bluing, etc; Still there. I think I'm gonna' strip it and either reblue of duracoat it. Maybe the whole damn thing!

August 23, 2014, 02:20 PM	#15
smokemup Member Join Date: January 1, 2012 Posts: 21	Billboard king! __________________ My Blog I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather did, and not screaming and yelling like the passenger's in his car.

August 23, 2014, 02:55 PM	#16
trigger643 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2011 Posts: 322	I absolutely agree. It just ruins the aesthetics of a firearm and makes it completely undesirable. A perfect example is this monstrosity, I mean really! Who wants all this gaudy jibberish marring up their otherwise beautiful gun. How it lasted 102 years without someone grinding it off is beyond me: Here's another travesty of free advertising... If these were mine, I'd duracoat over them immediately. Thankfully, this practice is pretty much confined to the gun industry...

August 23, 2014, 05:59 PM	#17
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	I can't say that I've ever cared or even noticed this until you brought it up. I honestly don't think I could care less about it. It certainly wouldn't be a determining factor in my gun purchases. __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

August 23, 2014, 06:24 PM	#18
RX-79G Junior member Join Date: October 27, 2013 Posts: 1,139	^ And that's why the billboard s aren't going anywhere.

August 23, 2014, 07:35 PM	#19
ttarp Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2013 Posts: 888	Small or unobtrusive rollmarks were a large part in 1911 selection for me. The billboard guns really do turn me off, I know function trumps form every time, but its nice when you can get both.

August 23, 2014, 08:06 PM	#20
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Honestly, unless the billboard is truly garish, they don't really bother me. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

August 23, 2014, 08:22 PM	#21
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	I am not a big fan either of billboards, but most of them I can get over without too much anxiety. I look at my Colt M1911 manufactured and delivered to Uncle Sam in 1918. What is on the left side of the slide? The entire side is stamped with the patent dates and the Colt Pony. One might ask why did Colt decide to stamp on the patent dates for a pistol being delivered to the Government which issues patents and has copies of the patents on file. So with the M1911 this was being done for over a hundred years. Yes, the message is different but the billboard is still there.

August 23, 2014, 11:42 PM	#22
Big Shrek Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: NorthWest Florida Posts: 1,358	Depends entirely on the stamping...some is right on...others, like that Nerf XFive stuff, I'd not buy. This pistol was so bad off finish-wise I stripped it, taking it all the way to the stainless steel... Now it looks like this...and will eventually be gold-plated, with nothing but the model name & serial stamped... the extra patent & other junk will be covered over... __________________ Marlin Specialist Calico Specialist A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.

August 25, 2014, 07:11 AM	#23
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Advertising? I was wondering why my pistol has "DRINK GOLDMAN'S PATENTED NEURO-TONIC FOR STEADY SHOOTING HANDS!" written on the side... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 25, 2014, 08:05 AM	#24
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Heck, they've been doing this for over a century! I have an old Remington 1858 revolver that, IIRC, has the name of the company, patent date, and date actual address of where it was made. Not to mention inspector's stamps and cartouche. Look at the old Colts- same thing. At least with that AMT 45 backup above, it's easy enough to polish out the cheezy laser-engraved lawyer-stuff. I agree about the new X-Five - I HATE the look of that logo. I'm not too fond of the under-rail either.

August 25, 2014, 08:35 AM	#25
sigpro2340 Member Join Date: July 7, 2014 Posts: 61	I agree with the fact that large etching or lettering is a bit much. If it's done in good taste, I have no issues. There are times when too much, or very large lettering on a slide tends to make a pistol look cheap. When I purchased the Ed Brown Massad Ayoob 1911, it was selected mostly due the high quality of the pistol, and not for the engraving. This specific model was only produced for 1 year.